A wedding question

[benedictgal]

No, it would not.

Actually, it would. Any Mass celebrated from 4PM, late Saturday afternoon on, will satisfy someone’s Sunday obligation. The readings do not necessarily have to be for the given Sunday, although, at our Cathedral, it is preferrable that if the faithful want to have their wedding during the regular parish Anticpated Sunday Mass, they use the readings for that given Sunday or solemnity (if such falls on a Sunday). Even those weddings that occur after the Anticipated Sunday Mass are strongly encouraged to use the Sunday readings, especially if the nuptial occurs during the seasons of Advent, Lent and Easter (inclusive of the Pentecost vigil–yes, we have had weddings occur at that time, as well–the only times that Saturday evening weddings are not allowed is on the eve of Palm Sunday and the Easter Vigil).

 

[benedictgal]

What an attitude to have! Truly! I’m in pursuit of a better spiritual life and you’re cutting me down for it? Think, please.

I was home schooled with a Catholic curriculum, however, our parish wouldn’t accept our religious education preferring I go through the CCD classes. We didn’t know that until later so I wasn’t confirmed at 16 or 17 like most others, so I’m going through RCIA now (which turns out to be a good thing because it presents my fiancé with a greater opportunity to learn more about me and my faith. God has a plan for everything).

No, I am not currently receiving communion. There are certain circumstances in my life right now which hold me back spiritually from receiving communion. These are circumstances which I am addressing at this time to prepare myself for the sacrament of Marriage… consequently it will also prepare me for the sacrament of the Eucharist. You have a problem with this? Then perhaps you’ll throw the first stone. We don’t always live rightly, but those who wish to correct themselves should not be chastised for it.

As for not taking the time on the day of the wedding to partake in a Holy Mass… did it slip by you that I want the full Mass for the wedding for this very reason? On this very website the question has been asked of whether a Saturday afternoon wedding would fulfill the Sunday obligation or not… as well as a question regarding a Sunday Nuptial mass fulfilling Sunday obligation and the answer (quite shockingly perhaps for you) was yes.

I don’t, in the least, appreciate being insulted.

Actually, technically, you should not be in RCIA, since the program is specifically designed for those who are not yet baptized or Protestants who are seeking full communion with the Church. Unfortunately, most parishes seem to lump everyone in together and try to make it a one-size fits all program. As I see it, they do a disservice not only to the Catechumens (unbaptized), but, to the Candidates (legitimately baptized Protestants) and adult Catholics who, for whatever reason, never completed the Sacraments.

Now, are you planning on being confirmed at the same time that you are getting married? The reason that I am asking is that normally, Confirmations would occur either at the Easter Vigil or some time later, with the Bishop, himself, administering the Sacrament.

I can certainly understand your wanting the Nuptial Mass. However, I would suggest that you re-read the citation I quoted (in my initial response to this thread) from Pope Benedict XVI, since he suggests that in the case of a mixed-marriage, a liturgy of the Word would be more suitable, given the fact that your fiance’s family would not be able to participate. If you do opt for the Mass, you need to make it plainly, but, charitably clear, that the only ones who can approach the Communion line are those Catholics who are properly disposed to receive Our Lord. And, as a side note, there is no such thing as receiving a blessing in lieu of Holy Communion. The line is only for those who are going to receive Our Lord, not a blessing. The blessing will come at the end of the Mass and is actually the most inclusive part of the Holy Sacrifice because it is applicable and available to everyone, Catholic or not.

 

[Angelstar]

Actually, technically, you should not be in RCIA, since the program is specifically designed for those who are not yet baptized or Protestants who are seeking full communion with the Church. Unfortunately, most parishes seem to lump everyone in together and try to make it a one-size fits all program. As I see it, they do a disservice not only to the Catechumens (unbaptized), but, to the Candidates (legitimately baptized Protestants) and adult Catholics who, for whatever reason, never completed the Sacraments.

Now, are you planning on being confirmed at the same time that you are getting married? The reason that I am asking is that normally, Confirmations would occur either at the Easter Vigil or some time later, with the Bishop, himself, administering the Sacrament.

I can certainly understand your wanting the Nuptial Mass. However, I would suggest that you re-read the citation I quoted (in my initial response to this thread) from Pope Benedict XVI, since he suggests that in the case of a mixed-marriage, a liturgy of the Word would be more suitable, given the fact that your fiance’s family would not be able to participate. If you do opt for the Mass, you need to make it plainly, but, charitably clear, that the only ones who can approach the Communion line are those Catholics who are properly disposed to receive Our Lord. And, as a side note, there is no such thing as receiving a blessing in lieu of Holy Communion. The line is only for those who are going to receive Our Lord, not a blessing. The blessing will come at the end of the Mass and is actually the most inclusive part of the Holy Sacrifice because it is applicable and available to everyone, Catholic or not.

Thank you for the post. I am finding this a difficult decision to make and I appreciate your post.

I feel the same way about the RCIA classes… we used Seton curriculum which includes the Baltimore catechism and Catechism of the Catholic Church as its text books so I don’t understand why it was problem with our parish… they could have had me tested if nothing else. But I think going to RCIA will be a good thing, in any case. But, no I won’t be confirmed at the same time as the wedding… it will be about a month after the wedding at Easter Vigil… I believe our local Arch-Bishop will be administering the Sacrament.

 

[benedictgal]

Thank you for the post. I am finding this a difficult decision to make and I appreciate your post.

I feel the same way about the RCIA classes… we used Seton curriculum which includes the Baltimore catechism and Catechism of the Catholic Church as its text books so I don’t understand why it was problem with our parish… they could have had me tested if nothing else. But I think going to RCIA will be a good thing, in any case. But, no I won’t be confirmed at the same time as the wedding… it will be about a month after the wedding at Easter Vigil… I believe our local Arch-Bishop will be administering the Sacrament.

You’re welcome. Try to hang in there.

If I read your post correctly, this would place your wedding smack dab at the beginning of Lent (or, shortly thereafter). There is a huge caveat here. Because you are getting married (at least I think) during Lent, the art and environment need to be subdued. During Lent, flowers are not allowed because the Church takes on the penitential nature of the season. Furthermore, the music will have to also be subdued and the “Alleluia” is not to be sung. You probably need to have a good talk with the priest to make sure that all of you are on the same page. Of course, were you to get married on the Fourth Sunday of Lent (Laetare Sunday), the celebrant would be wearing Rose vestments, instead of purple. At the Cathedral, our rector would wear purple vestments when he had to do a Lenten wedding, except for the fourth Sunday of Lent, when he wore rose. Just some thoughts for you to consider.

 

[JReducation]

Both parties do not have to be baptized to be married in the catholic church. Both parties have to be baptized for it to be considered a sacrament.

A mass does not have to have the correct readings to meet the obligation. It has to take place during a certain time period. IF a wedding mass takes place on a Sunday, the readings must be the Sunday readings.

Both parties do not have to be baptized. Only one party has to be baptized. Canon law permits the marriage between a baptized Christian and a non baptized party: Jew, Muslim, or other. The person must accept the terms of marriage of the Catholic Church, obviously and has to be free to marry.

**Can. 1118 §1. A marriage between Catholics or between a Catholic party and a non-Catholic baptized party is to be celebrated in a parish church. It can be celebrated in another church or oratory with the permission of the local ordinary or pastor.

§2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.

§3. A marriage between a Catholic party and a non-baptized party can be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place**

The above canon would not exist if there were no possibility for a marriage between a Catholic and a non baptized person.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[passus]

Actually, it would. Any Mass celebrated from 4PM, late Saturday afternoon on, will satisfy someone’s Sunday obligation. The readings do not necessarily have to be for the given Sunday, although, at our Cathedral, it is preferrable that if the faithful want to have their wedding during the regular parish Anticpated Sunday Mass, they use the readings for that given Sunday or solemnity (if such falls on a Sunday). Even those weddings that occur after the Anticipated Sunday Mass are strongly encouraged to use the Sunday readings, especially if the nuptial occurs during the seasons of Advent, Lent and Easter (inclusive of the Pentecost vigil–yes, we have had weddings occur at that time, as well–the only times that Saturday evening weddings are not allowed is on the eve of Palm Sunday and the Easter Vigil).

Oh, I read the statement wrong.

2:57 am…too late (early?) for canon law

 

[JReducation]

Actually, it would. Any Mass celebrated from 4PM, late Saturday afternoon on, will satisfy someone’s Sunday obligation. The readings do not necessarily have to be for the given Sunday, although, at our Cathedral, it is preferrable that if the faithful want to have their wedding during the regular parish Anticpated Sunday Mass, they use the readings for that given Sunday or solemnity (if such falls on a Sunday). Even those weddings that occur after the Anticipated Sunday Mass are strongly encouraged to use the Sunday readings, especially if the nuptial occurs during the seasons of Advent, Lent and Easter (inclusive of the Pentecost vigil–yes, we have had weddings occur at that time, as well–the only times that Saturday evening weddings are not allowed is on the eve of Palm Sunday and the Easter Vigil).

The local Ordinary can make it a regular allowance for the readings to be changed for those in the marriage ritual. I know this, because we have this in our diocese for weddings and funerals. The readings of the day can be replaced by those in the ritual. Also the color of the vestments can be replaced by white for weddings and funerals or black and violet for funerals.

We recently had a very important funeral in our diocese, the funeral of the Vicar General’s father. The Ordinary allowed the readings and colors to be changed at the request of the Vicar Genral and his family. It has also been done for weddings.

What the Ordinary cannot do is such things as allow the Gloria and the Alleluia when it is liturgically prohibited.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Angelstar]

You’re welcome. Try to hang in there.

If I read your post correctly, this would place your wedding smack dab at the beginning of Lent (or, shortly thereafter). There is a huge caveat here. Because you are getting married (at least I think) during Lent, the art and environment need to be subdued. During Lent, flowers are not allowed because the Church takes on the penitential nature of the season. Furthermore, the music will have to also be subdued and the “Alleluia” is not to be sung. You probably need to have a good talk with the priest to make sure that all of you are on the same page. Of course, were you to get married on the Fourth Sunday of Lent (Laetare Sunday), the celebrant would be wearing Rose vestments, instead of purple. At the Cathedral, our rector would wear purple vestments when he had to do a Lenten wedding, except for the fourth Sunday of Lent, when he wore rose. Just some thoughts for you to consider.

Fortunately, I don’t want any flowers in the church (other than the tradition of presenting roses to Our Lady, of course)… the Church is so beautiful as it is. The most we may want to do is something (some alternative to flowers) for the ends of the pews to designate where family sits… we’ll talk to the priest about that, of course. I have no clue where to begin with music… I was going to ask Father if he might have suggestions, so I’m perfectly willing to adhere to any restrictions. What ever color vestments the Priest wears is fine with me (there are very few colors which would clash with my bridesmaids dresses, lol). Thank you for these considerations… my mind has been full of so many other details and expenses and things that I’d forgotten at what time the wedding is in relation to Lent.

 

[agapewolf]

Both parties do not have to be baptized. Only one party has to be baptized. Canon law permits the marriage between a baptized Christian and a non baptized party: Jew, Muslim, or other. The person must accept the terms of marriage of the Catholic Church, obviously and has to be free to marry.

**Can. 1118 §1. A marriage between Catholics or between a Catholic party and a non-Catholic baptized party is to be celebrated in a parish church. It can be celebrated in another church or oratory with the permission of the local ordinary or pastor.

§2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.

§3. A marriage between a Catholic party and a non-baptized party can be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place**

The above canon would not exist if there were no possibility for a marriage between a Catholic and a non baptized person.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Why in the world did you post this quoting my post? It makes no sense. When one person is not baptized, it isn’t a sacrament. I didn’t say anything about it taking place in the church, that wasn’t the point.

 

[benedictgal]

The local Ordinary can make it a regular allowance for the readings to be changed for those in the marriage ritual. I know this, because we have this in our diocese for weddings and funerals. The readings of the day can be replaced by those in the ritual. Also the color of the vestments can be replaced by white for weddings and funerals or black and violet for funerals.

We recently had a very important funeral in our diocese, the funeral of the Vicar General’s father. The Ordinary allowed the readings and colors to be changed at the request of the Vicar Genral and his family. It has also been done for weddings.

What the Ordinary cannot do is such things as allow the Gloria and the Alleluia when it is liturgically prohibited.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

True, but, ordinarily, the nature of the seasons would probably trump the choice of readings. For example, if a couple were to get married on December 8th, then the obligatory readings would be used.

 

[benedictgal]

Oh, I read the statement wrong.

2:57 am…too late (early?) for canon law

Thre is no reason for sarcasm here.

 

[agapewolf]

Fortunately, I don’t want any flowers in the church (other than the tradition of presenting roses to Our Lady, of course)… the Church is so beautiful as it is. The most we may want to do is something (some alternative to flowers) for the ends of the pews to designate where family sits… we’ll talk to the priest about that, of course. I have no clue where to begin with music… I was going to ask Father if he might have suggestions, so I’m perfectly willing to adhere to any restrictions. What ever color vestments the Priest wears is fine with me (there are very few colors which would clash with my bridesmaids dresses, lol). Thank you for these considerations… my mind has been full of so many other details and expenses and things that I’d forgotten at what time the wedding is in relation to Lent.

Again, you are focssing on all the wrong things. Forget about flowers, music etc at all right now. Think about your Sunday obligation for Mass.

 

[lizaanne]

Again, you are focssing on all the wrong things. Forget about flowers, music etc at all right now. Think about your Sunday obligation for Mass.

Will you STOP beating this girl up already? My goodness - these are all considerations that must be made as part of planning a wedding. That does NOT mean she does not care about Mass.

I think she gets your intent by now. Sheesh.

~Liza

 

[agapewolf]

Will you STOP beating this girl up already? My goodness - these are all considerations that must be made as part of planning a wedding. That does NOT mean she does not care about Mass.

I think she gets your intent by now. Sheesh.

~Liza

I’m not beating the girl up

And she is obviously not getting it…read the posts. .and by the way, flowers and photography are NOT necessary parts of planning a wedding.

 

[JReducation]

Why in the world did you post this quoting my post? It makes no sense. When one person is not baptized, it isn’t a sacrament. I didn’t say anything about it taking place in the church, that wasn’t the point.

That was the point that I was trying to make. I’m sorry if it did not come out clearly. That’s not your fault. It was mine.

If one party is not married, the marriage is still a sacrament. That’s why the caons of 1983 post it under sacramental law. The old law that it was not a sacrament was in the old canon, which is no longer in effect.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[agapewolf]

That was the point that I was trying to make. I’m sorry if it did not come out clearly. That’s not your fault. It was mine.

If one party is not married, the marriage is still a sacrament. That’s why the caons of 1983 post it under sacramental law. The old law that it was not a sacrament was in the old canon, which is no longer in effect.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

If one party is not married? huh? Did you mean if one party is not baptized?

If one person is not baptized, it is not a sacrament. It is impossible for it to be a sacrament.

 

[JReducation]

If one party is not married? huh? Did you mean if one party is not baptized?

If one person is not baptized, it is not a sacrament. It is impossible for it to be a sacrament.

That was taken out of canon law in 1983. The wording now is that it is valid, if the parties meet the requirements of the Church. The Church requires only one of the parties be a baptized Catholic for validity. Validity constitutes sacrament in the new code. It no longer distinguishes between validity and sacrament. But it is the same thing. Check it out with a canon lawyer. In fact the new code doesn’t even require that the non-Catholic partner agree to raising the children Catholic. The Catholic partner must swear to make the best attempt possible. In some dioceses the bishop may requier it, but not the code of canon law.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[maryjk]

I’m a little surprised there can be a wedding in a Catholic church on a Sunday. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that.

And thats why I’m pretty sure weddings are not usually on Sunday. Because a wedding is counted as a Mass, but not a mass of obligation.
Have you ever been to a Sunday wedding?

I have never heard of a wedding taking place on a Sunday. There’s a very practical issue: priests and churches are tied up all morning. Priests are also limited in how many Masses they can celebrate in a day. And in my experience, by the time the noon Mass is over, the priests are exhausted.

If the wedding doesn’t take place on a Sunday it removes the whole issue of wanting a Mass solely so you can meet your Sunday obligation.

Yes, you can be married on a Sunday. I know because I was married on a Sunday. It was Sunday evening.

We did not have Mass, because only 3 people at the wedding would have received communion, the bride (me), the best man and my mother. Those that were Catholic attended Mass in the morning or Saturday night. There were only about 12 people in attendance, for the wedding.

 

[JReducation]

True, but, ordinarily, the nature of the seasons would probably trump the choice of readings. For example, if a couple were to get married on December 8th, then the obligatory readings would be used.

You’re definitely right on that score. A wedding cannot trump a solemnity, for example. I know some parishes that avoid this by no witnessing marriages on such days. But that’s a local decision.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[lizaanne]

I’m not beating the girl up

And she is obviously not getting it…read the posts. .and by the way, flowers and photography are NOT necessary parts of planning a wedding.

Did I say “necessary”? I said considerations.

You need to get over this whole thing you have with other people getting married agapewolf. Every single time there is a discussion like this you are so bitter and nit-picky and combative.

Yes - I happen to think she DOES get it. You are just so focused on the fact that she does have other things she needs to consider in planning this day, that you refuse to see that in her VERY FIRST POST she says she wants to have a Mass!

Of course she understands her obligation - and if she didn’t at the start, you have made that painfully clear to her by now. Ok - so now that we have established that she MUST fulfill her Sunday obligation, let’s HELP the bride figure out how to make that happen within the context of everything else that needs to go on that day.

And yes - you do beat people up like this - often. It’s not nice. You clearly have a wealth of experience with the liturgy and weddings, please use this to teach and not to beat into submission.

~Liza