A 'What if' Question!

[Rose71]

I’ve been wondering about this because someone on here must have been in this situation - or knows of someone who is!

I met up with a friend recently who I’ve not seen for years and years. She was raised a Catholic and left the Church in her late teens (as many do) and basically lived a life that in a secular world would pass for totally acceptable, but contravened a lot of the Church’s teachings. She has lived with men outside marriage and is now married to a divorcee and they have 2 children.

Her husband was married in a Christian ceremony and obviously, he never got an annulment because he is not a Catholic and the whole concept of annulments just didn’t figure on their radar at the time of their marriage.

Anyway, her ‘wild times’ are well and truly over and they are very, very good parents. Their children are well-mannered and they have a really strong and loving relationship.

She is now, tentatively, looking back to the Church because she feels her children would benefit from the kind of spiritual upbringing she had and she feels drawn back to some kind of faith. She says she never stopped believing in God.

My question is, of course the whole family should be welcomed at Mass and the children have every right to partake in the sacraments and be educated as Catholics. BUT - she and her DH will not be able to partake in the Eucharist. Furthermore, although in theory, if DH gets an annulment, the marriage can be convalidated - what if his annulment petition is refused?

Are they expected to live as ‘brother and sister’?

Surely they would not be encouraged to live separately, as this is breaking up a family and unfair to the children, who are the innocent parties here?

How would they, as parents, explain to their children that Mum and Dad are living in a state of sin and can’t take Communion?

I’m not saying the rules of the Church are wrong - if she’d kept to them in the first place, she wouldn’t be in this situation - but when you’ve gone so far in your life away from the Church - how do you find your way back without hurting or confusing those closest to you?

 

[ibo]

I’ve been wondering about this because someone on here must have been in this situation - or knows of someone who is!

I met up with a friend recently who I’ve not seen for years and years. She was raised a Catholic and left the Church in her late teens (as many do) and basically lived a life that in a secular world would pass for totally acceptable, but contravened a lot of the Church’s teachings. She has lived with men outside marriage and is now married to a divorcee and they have 2 children.

Her husband was married in a Christian ceremony and obviously, he never got an annulment because he is not a Catholic and the whole concept of annulments just didn’t figure on their radar at the time of their marriage.

Anyway, her ‘wild times’ are well and truly over and they are very, very good parents. Their children are well-mannered and they have a really strong and loving relationship.

She is now, tentatively, looking back to the Church because she feels her children would benefit from the kind of spiritual upbringing she had and she feels drawn back to some kind of faith. She says she never stopped believing in God.

My question is, of course the whole family should be welcomed at Mass and the children have every right to partake in the sacraments and be educated as Catholics. BUT - she and her DH will not be able to partake in the Eucharist. Furthermore, although in theory, if DH gets an annulment, the marriage can be convalidated - what if his annulment petition is refused?

Are they expected to live as ‘brother and sister’?

Surely they would not be encouraged to live separately, as this is breaking up a family and unfair to the children, who are the innocent parties here?

How would they, as parents, explain to their children that Mum and Dad are living in a state of sin and can’t take Communion?

I’m not saying the rules of the Church are wrong - if she’d kept to them in the first place, she wouldn’t be in this situation - but when you’ve gone so far in your life away from the Church - how do you find your way back without hurting or confusing those closest to you?

Personal Opinion: the man was not married to the first spouse for his marriage was not a Catholic One, for when they married they did not marry on the same criteria, the same values and the same presuppositions of the Catholic Marriage.

 

[Phemie]

Personal Opinion: the man was not married to the first spouse for his marriage was not a Catholic One, for when they married they did not marry on the same criteria, the same values and the same presuppositions of the Catholic Marriage.

Your personal opinion doesn’t match what the Church teaches. The marriage of non-Catholics is presumed valid if there was no impediment.

Without investigation there is no way to know whether or not your opinion that “they did not marry on the same criteria, the same values and the same presuppositions of the Catholic Marriage” is in fact true.

 

[Rose71]

Personal Opinion: the man was not married to the first spouse for his marriage was not a Catholic One, for when they married they did not marry on the same criteria, the same values and the same presuppositions of the Catholic Marriage.

Well, up until a couple of years ago, that would have been my opinion too! I actually started dating a man who was a baptised Anglican and had been married in an Anglican service (because aged 19 he and his girlffriend were about to become parents!) It’s fair to say, I got a very nasty shock when I decided to ‘double check’ if my understanding of the Faith was right (I thought the same as you) and found out that a marriage between 2 baptised Christians, whether specifically Catholic or not - is a binding marriage in the eyes of the Church, unless one of the criteria for nullity is established as being in place at the time the vows were taken.

In the case of the man I dated (briefly) he may well have grounds, because it was a ‘shotgun’ wedding between 2 very immature people whose parents both pressurised them to have a relationship and then to get married.

In the case of my friend, I don’t know the background - and there may well be grounds - but just suppose her DH had married first time round, say, in his mid-20s knowing exactly what he was saying when he took his vows and without any pressure…and the problems in the marriage began a few years down the line?

But - we’re all great on here at dissceting the anulment question What I’m really driving at is how should a family in this situation proceed and what, if any, support is there for them? We say, “You came to call sinners - Christ have mercy” every Sunday, but realistically, what practical advice and support is there for aforementioned sinners when they are called?
How have other people who may have been in this situation coped with following their desire to renew their faith without upsetting the family dynamic?

 

[agnes_therese]

A lot depends upon the circumstances of his first marriage. We can’t speculate here – you should talk to a priest.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Personal Opinion: the man was not married to the first spouse for his marriage was not a Catholic One, for when they married they did not marry on the same criteria, the same values and the same presuppositions of the Catholic Marriage.

There is no basis to say: it was not a Catholic one.

tee

 

[JRKH]

All you are going to be able to get here is more speculation.

As others have already said, you need to speak to a priest or someone else who is familiar with the annulment process. There are many details that need to be looked into that only the couple themselves can supply.

In my opinion it is foolish and counterproductive to do much speculating here on the matter. Either make an appointment with your priest, or call the chancery office to be put in touch with someone who deals with petitions for annulment. They can give you the best answer.

Based solely on my own experience though I can say that, Holy Mother Church tries to do everything she can to bring folks home.

Peace
James

 

[Rose71]

I totally agree - speculation is futile!

However, I think, with respect, you are missing the point of my post. I am merely using this as an example.

I wanted to know: has anyone here been in a situation where they have married a divorcee outside the Chuch, had a family and then wished to come back into the Church; embrace Her teachings and bring up their family as Catholics?

How did you react / respond if your husband or wife either refused to seek an annulment on his / her previous marriage, or was actually refused one?

I can see that an annulment would enable the couple to convalidate their marriage and then go on to enjoy a full relationship with the blessings of the Church and partake of the Eucharist…but what if there was no annulment?Does the Church have any published guidance on this situation?

I absolutely, specifically did not want this to become another discussion on annulments! The annulment process is not being called into question here. I know all about the annulment process and the reasoning behind it.

Apologies for sounding slightly pedantic - but I really am curious because so many people abandon their faith and then re-discover it later in life.

Thanks.

 

[Phemie]

I’ve been wondering about this because someone on here must have been in this situation - or knows of someone who is!

I met up with a friend recently who I’ve not seen for years and years. She was raised a Catholic and left the Church in her late teens (as many do) and basically lived a life that in a secular world would pass for totally acceptable, but contravened a lot of the Church’s teachings. She has lived with men outside marriage and is now married to a divorcee and they have 2 children.

Her husband was married in a Christian ceremony and obviously, he never got an annulment because he is not a Catholic and the whole concept of annulments just didn’t figure on their radar at the time of their marriage.

Anyway, her ‘wild times’ are well and truly over and they are very, very good parents. Their children are well-mannered and they have a really strong and loving relationship.

She is now, tentatively, looking back to the Church because she feels her children would benefit from the kind of spiritual upbringing she had and she feels drawn back to some kind of faith. She says she never stopped believing in God.

My question is, of course the whole family should be welcomed at Mass and the children have every right to partake in the sacraments and be educated as Catholics. BUT - she and her DH will not be able to partake in the Eucharist. Furthermore, although in theory, if DH gets an annulment, the marriage can be convalidated - what if his annulment petition is refused?

Are they expected to live as ‘brother and sister’?

Surely they would not be encouraged to live separately, as this is breaking up a family and unfair to the children, who are the innocent parties here?

How would they, as parents, explain to their children that Mum and Dad are living in a state of sin and can’t take Communion?

I’m not saying the rules of the Church are wrong - if she’d kept to them in the first place, she wouldn’t be in this situation - but when you’ve gone so far in your life away from the Church - how do you find your way back without hurting or confusing those closest to you?

No, they would not be expected to separate, precisely because children are involved.
Yes, they would be required to live as brother and sister and if they opted not to they would be expected to refrain from receiving Communion.

How they explain that to their children? I have no idea.

 

[Rose71]

No, they would not be expected to separate, precisely because children are involved.
Yes, they would be required to live as brother and sister and if they opted not to they would be expected to refrain from receiving Communion.

How they explain that to their children? I have no idea.

Thanks, that’s what I thought…and the bit where they have to try to explain this to their children is the bit that baffles me too! I know it would depend on the ages of the children and their intelligence and maturity to a large extent though.

I am glad to hear they would not be expected to separate.