A Woman Who Wanted To Make An Unhappy Marriage Work

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There’s no cut and dry remedy for these situations. Everyone is different, every couple is different, therefore every situation is different. If a husband is verbally abusing his wife to the point where she becomes self destructive (alcohol abuse, cutting herself, suicide attempts) something needs to be done, and maybe, it just might be a divorce. I don’t know. But I do know that someone can’t just sit back and say “This is what worked for me, therefore there’s no excuse to get divorced.” (No offense to anyone.) Until someone has walked a mile in the other person’s shoes we need to stop being preachy and start praying to God and praying to saints who have had troubled marriages. (Once again, no offense to anyone, I’m not inadvertantly speaking about anyone who previously posted.)
 
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Genesis315:
I never mentioned divorce. I said they shouldn’t have to put up with it. Temporary separation is always an option until the husband can learn how to be a man. Read that link from the bishops. Abuse is not just physical. Forgivenness is not putting up with it. God’s will is not to be constantly put down. It’s against human dignity.
Are you sure that is what you wanted to say? Until the husband can learn to be a man? Again, I reiterate my stance that you only know one side of the story. And how is stomping out in anger going to teach anybody anything? I changed myself first. It didn’t happen overnight, but when I stopped pushing his buttons, he stopped pushing mine, and kindness and respect became the most important virtues in our marriage. Courtesy is extremely important from both partners.
 
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JaneDC:
Lily and Gen,

I understand you passion on this issue. You have drawn a line on in the sand. how would you operationalize this? Would you suggest that at the first sign of abuse (this is tricky because these patterns tend to start before marriage!), they should immediately run to a lawyer? Where is the room for God to address the situation?

I agree, abuse is an awful thing. There are circumstances where a spouse (let’s be fair, it’s not always the husband!) may need to pack up and leave to be safe (see CCC 1649). the police may need to be called in, restraining orders may be needed, and all of those issues. This is the hardest decision a spouse can make because in many cases, leaving makes matters worse (case in point: a woman and her friend who gave her shelter were killed by her husband at a fish fry in St. Louis). I know of many times where a woman needed to do this for the safety of herself and her children. However, I also know that in some cases the husband did get help for his issues, and the family was healed!

In all due respect, I am concerned that your short “absolute statements” are damaging to women like myself that are in difficult but not necessarily abusive relationships. Determination of how bad abuse is is best made with professional assistance and not on-line. I challenge you to go beyond one-liners and really weigh in on the issue.

God Bless, JaneDC
Hi JaneDC:

I think we must all realize that we all come from very different situations, different backgrounds, different pasts. And all our opinions can’t help but reflect this as well. Perhaps Lily came from a very abusive situation, one in which SHE HAD to get out of, dunno, but perhaps her judgment might be clouded a bit still, from this hurt she feels, therefore she is leaning more to one end, and still is recovering from that. I tend to think so.

All in all, all advice is helpful. And each point of view is a most worthy one! If a person is smart and saavy enough to go on the net, let’s hope they’ll be saavy enough to read the replies, and take each response with a grain of salt, relying on God’s Wisdom primarily.
 
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sarai:
What if the spouse is adamant that he doesnt have a problem and the one with the problem is you?

What if the husband doesnt want to seek help because he truly believes that he doesnt have a problem?

The spouse should stay and put up with that? Get blamed for things that she has not done and have the spouse turn things in a way that will make you feel that is all your fault, when you know that it is entirely his problem?

That is my situation and I absolutely refuse to let my esteem get trampled over any more. And I will advise the same thing to other people if they are in the same situation. There is no reason why someone should make you feel inferior when you have tried everything that you can to make it work.
That is abuse, but I am sure you know that. It is all about control! Have you tried talking to a counselor who deals with abuse or taking some classes at a domestic violence shelter? Not so you stick it out in your marriage, but so you can heal and learn.
 
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sarai:
I absolutely refuse to let my esteem get trampled over any more. And I will advise the same thing to other people if they are in the same situation. There is no reason why someone should make you feel inferior when you have tried everything that you can to make it work.
I sympathize with you, sarai. My first marriage was very abusive, though I went to several counsellors, and my husband went with me to some of them. The final straw came when he told my two year old son that he wished he’d never been born - I moved out.
I still hung on for several years waiting for him to change, but he was unwilling, and when he moved in with another woman I got a divorce.
It’s unclear how bad your situation is, and I don’t recommend that anyone wait as long as I did to divorce. But God does heal some marriages if the spouse is willing. I agree with you, though, that no one should live with abuse.
I think one thing we all should do is educate our daughters to expect respect from anyone they date, and drop like a hot potato anyone who treats them badly before marriage. If I had learned that, I wouldn’t have had to go through years of misery to figure it out. (Of course we should teach our sons to respect their partners as well.)
 
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TarAshly:
Sarai i am sorry for your situation. i would only ask that you remeber that it is never entirely one persons fault.
Yes, but tolerating intolerable behavior is a fault. It is one thing to be patient and forgiving of the human frailties of your spouse. You have to do that. It is quite another to allow your husband to habitually treat you as no wife should ever be treated, even if he does sometimes offer up verbal repentance.

Besides, it is no good in one of these situations to worry about whose fault it is. Very few people grow up to be verbal abusers without having endured some of that themselves. That doesn’t make the damage they do less severe.

If you are married, you are bound to do all you can to make it a very good marriage, a reflection of the life of Christ and his Church. If you don’t ask that of your husband and yourself, you’re shorting your vows. If it is constitutionally impossible for you to have a even a nominally good marriage–if it is honestly not in either of the two of you to make better choices–then an annulment may be appropriate. That is the truth, and there is no getting around it.
 
I may be going where smarter guys fear to tread, but…

Christ instituted the sacrament of marriage, and it is for life. It is not possible to dissolve a marriage. There is no such thing as divorce, other than as a civil document dissolving a civil contract.

Can you leave? Sure. But you will always be married.

An annulment cannot, and does not, dissolve a valid marriage. It only evaluates whether or not the marriage was valid in the first place. If it was, then you’re married.

Having said all that, my heart and prayers go out to all of you in bad situations. Every effort should be made to correct the problems, but sometimes the answer may be to separate and leave. And many times the problem surfacing now was present all along and may have prevented the marriage from being valid.

I would talk to your priest before I started talking divorce.
 
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Flounder:
I may be going where smarter guys fear to tread, but…

Christ instituted the sacrament of marriage, and it is for life. It is not possible to dissolve a marriage. There is no such thing as divorce, other than as a civil document dissolving a civil contract.

Can you leave? Sure. But you will always be married.

An annulment cannot, and does not, dissolve a valid marriage. It only evaluates whether or not the marriage was valid in the first place. If it was, then you’re married.
You are right. Nevertheless, merely avoiding divorce is not all that is required of those who have entered into the sacrament. Both spouses must insist on more than that. It is their solemn obligation to *live *a sacramental marriage, to the best of their abilities. That involves far more than simple endurance.

If you hang around and allow your husband to berate you and belittle you–let alone physically abuse you!–or if you allow him to refuse you the treatment due his wife, or to refuse his children the treatment he owes them as their father, then you are providing him a near occasion of sin…habitual, soul-deadening sin, at that. That is one line between what you should endure and what you should not. Sometimes separation is not just allowable, but a positive good that should not be evaded.
 
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Flounder:
ICan you leave? Sure. But you will always be married.

An annulment cannot, and does not, dissolve a valid marriage. It only evaluates whether or not the marriage was valid in the first place. If it was, then you’re married…
This is true, but if a spouse is immature, unwilling to change, or did not mean his or her vows in the first place, it’s very likely that the marriage was not valid. People mature enough to enter into marriage are usually together enough to try to make it work, and they value the relationship.
No one should have to stay in an abusive marriage, and if it is abusive, it’s very likely that it’s not a valid marriage.
 
Momofone:
That is abuse, but I am sure you know that. It is all about control! Have you tried talking to a counselor who deals with abuse or taking some classes at a domestic violence shelter? Not so you stick it out in your marriage, but so you can heal and learn.
I have not gone to any counselors even though, I suggested it to my husband as a couple and he wont go. I tried to make it work, but he thinks that I have done nothing to make the marriage work. He isnt Catholic, so this makes our marriage a more difficult.
 
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Viki59:
I sympathize with you, sarai. My first marriage was very abusive, though I went to several counsellors, and my husband went with me to some of them. The final straw came when he told my two year old son that he wished he’d never been born - I moved out.
I still hung on for several years waiting for him to change, but he was unwilling, and when he moved in with another woman I got a divorce.
It’s unclear how bad your situation is, and I don’t recommend that anyone wait as long as I did to divorce. But God does heal some marriages if the spouse is willing. I agree with you, though, that no one should live with abuse.
I think one thing we all should do is educate our daughters to expect respect from anyone they date, and drop like a hot potato anyone who treats them badly before marriage. If I had learned that, I wouldn’t have had to go through years of misery to figure it out. (Of course we should teach our sons to respect their partners as well.)
What sad is that after all the mental abuse that I have been put through, it is hard for me to leave him because I love him. I dont know if I will be able to find someone else that I can love or love me.
 
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sarai:
What sad is that after all the mental abuse that I have been put through, it is hard for me to leave him because I love him. I dont know if I will be able to find someone else that I can love or love me.
You need to love you. Jesus said that we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. Would you recommend that someone else stay because she “loves him”? Of course not! Then don’t do it to yourself! You need to love and respect yourself enough to say “Enough. I don’t deserve this. I will not put up with this.” I don’t necessarily recommend talking to a counselor, per say. I’d specifically recommend a counselor at a domestic violence shelter. I will look for some website links for you and some phone numbers and post them here. I’ve also heard about a really great book that I will get the name of for you.
 
Momofone:
You need to love you. Jesus said that we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. Would you recommend that someone else stay because she “loves him”? Of course not! Then don’t do it to yourself! You need to love and respect yourself enough to say “Enough. I don’t deserve this. I will not put up with this.” I don’t necessarily recommend talking to a counselor, per say. I’d specifically recommend a counselor at a domestic violence shelter. I will look for some website links for you and some phone numbers and post them here. I’ve also heard about a really great book that I will get the name of for you.
Well said Mom! I learned to love me. Then I knew I was strong enough to tackle anything. It is a rough road you are on Sarai, but one you can walk…head held high. Because NO ONE EVER deserves to be abused, whether it be physical, verbal or psychological.Yes, you can love the man, and not his actions. But learn to “take care of the caretaker” because you are the only one who can.
~ Kathy ~
 
We are separated, but have been trying to work things out and it just doesnt get better. My problem is that when I’m with him I cant stand being around him and all I think about is getting divorced, but when I’m not with him I miss him terribly and I dont think that I would be able to go on without him. Im afraid that I will always be sad because I dont have him with me. Do I make any sense???
 
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sarai:
We are separated, but have been trying to work things out and it just doesnt get better. My problem is that when I’m with him I cant stand being around him and all I think about is getting divorced, but when I’m not with him I miss him terribly and I dont think that I would be able to go on without him. Im afraid that I will always be sad because I dont have him with me. Do I make any sense???
Yes, you do make sense. I think that these feelings are perfectly normal. You have to grieve in order to get better. But you won’t always feel sad. Trust me.
 
I once dated a man who was verbally abusive (he’d apparently had some problems with physical abuse, as well, with an ex.) I didn’t date him for very LONG, but the few months I did were pretty awful.

I can’t imagine being married to such a person. If, somehow, I’d found myself married to him, I absolutely would have had to divorce him. (Now, this was before I was really religious or anything) I am VERY VERY grateful that I never got pregnant with him. He would be a horrible, miserable father.

Verbal abuse, when it’s for real, is truly awful. I’m not talking about just name-calling or yelling. Those things are wrong and not healthy, but true verbal abuse is something entirely different. You don’t have to use bad words or call names or even raise your voice to do it. What it is is simply undermining someone constantly. In fact, the very WORST sort of verbal abuse is the kind that is said ina pleasant or reasonable tone of voice.

You find yourself walking on eggshells, never knowing when you’ll trigger another outbreak of evil.

And, the abuser is very sneaky. They’ll wait until your guard is down and then pounce. This guy would get some idea in his head and let it fester for weeks before blowing up. Perhaps I came home from work an hour late one day and didn’t think to explain why. Maybe I’d gone to the grocery store and then got involved reading something at the magazine rack, and so was late. Didn’t really notice I was late, and so didn’t say anything about it one way or another. Neither would he. He wouldn’t say a word. Then, three weeks later, I’d be in a happy mood… perhaps just had my hair cut and feeling nice about my looks. THEN he’d start in on me. I can’t even replicate how he’d do it… but it would be just one cryptic comment. Then another. Then another… and I’d be on the defensive, trying to get at what he was saying… and it would turn into: you’re displaying the classic signs of someone who is cheating. You’ve got a new hair style. You came home from work an hour late. You’re smiling a lot, lately. You answered the phone and claimed it was a “wrong number” because HE called when I was here!

Another time, he just KNEW - had known for WEEKS - that I was working as a prostitute! I was trollling the online singles sites for clients! He KNEW this because he was nobody’s fool! :rolleyes:

Or, if there was a small bruise on my leg, he’d say something to the effect of “I don’t want you to think I’m naive, so I’m going to have to let you know that I see that thumb print on your thigh…” “What?! What THUMB PRINT?! What are you talking about?” “You sure do display the classic signs of guilt and defensiveness!”

In between, he’d behave as if everything was normal. Only when I was feeling somewhat happy and relaxed did he pounce. I ceased to ever feel happy and relaxed!

Oh, and he was good at pointing all of my actual faults, too. I really AM a lazy and self-centered person. I suspect most of us are on some levels, or at least most of us worry that we are. The more I withdrew, the more he pointed out to me that I wasn’t any fun, that I was selfish, that I was cold, that I didn’t do anything for him. Or, that I was conceited about my education (it’s true, I’m somewhat proud of my education) and he’d tell me that I was making an *** of myself.

To this day, I have no idea how much of it was true and how much of it was just his sick little head. Oh, I KNOW that I wasn’t an Internet prostitute and that that wasn’t a thumb print on my thigh, but I don’t know if I was selfish, lazy, or conceited.

Anyway, verbal abuse is some truly sick stuff.

You know you’re being verbally abused when you find yourself wishing they’d just hit you so you could say “OK! That’s it! I know I’m not crazy and that I’m being abused!”

If I find myself married to someone like this, I will leave. Oh, he’ll have a chance to get counselling and change, but I won’t tolerate it for even a second. I owe it to my children.
 
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katybird:
You find yourself walking on eggshells, never knowing when you’ll trigger another outbreak of evil. *Yup, been there. *It’s scary.

And, the abuser is very sneaky. They’ll wait until your guard is down and then pounce. *You think that everything is OK, then BOOM! I think that this is demonic. *

In between, he’d behave as if everything was normal. Only when I was feeling somewhat happy and relaxed did he pounce. I ceased to ever feel happy and relaxed! Same as above.

To this day, I have no idea how much of it was true and how much of it was just his sick little head. Oh, I KNOW that I wasn’t an Internet prostitute and that that wasn’t a thumb print on my thigh, but I don’t know if I was selfish, lazy, or conceited. One reason I think that this is demonic is that they know just where to hit you. They seem to pounce on areas where you may have a failing, or fears, or they twist and exaggerate the truth to make it look as if you have a failing

Anyway, verbal abuse is some truly sick stuff.

You know you’re being verbally abused when you find yourself wishing they’d just hit you so you could say “OK! That’s it! I know I’m not crazy and that I’m being abused!” You hit the nail on the head!! I’ve actually told my ex-boyfriend this: “I wish that you would just hit me so people could actually see the marks. No one can see the marks on my heart.”

.
 
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