A woman's right

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I hope if you have a little girl and she gets pregnant at age 6 or 7 because she matured in her body and not her mind you have fun raising it for her. And visit her grave every day with the baby. Good Luck. raggetyann What i posted was true and you people seem to be mean about children., having children.😦 How awful, this is sad.
Please link to one VERIFIED report that has a 7 or younger age girl getting pregnant. If not, stop the exaggerations.
 
Please link to one VERIFIED report that has a 7 or younger age girl getting pregnant. If not, stop the exaggerations.
I hate to play devil’s advocate, but we gotta base our arguments on fact. I believe they will still stand even so.

snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp

Apparently the world record for youngest birth is a 5 year old Peruvian girl named Lina Medina. Her father was suspected of child molestation, but they never determined his guilt because they couldn’t tell who fathered the child.

A simple DNA test should have determined that. Just proof that her child needed to exist to prove molestation.

Also, I’d like to point out, that in this case the little 5 year old girl gave birth perfectly fine to this little boy by c-section. Her life wasn’t ended by this at all.
 
I hope if you have a little girl and she gets pregnant at age 6 or 7 because she matured in her body and not her mind you have fun raising it for her. And visit her grave every day with the baby. Good Luck. raggetyann What i posted was true and you people seem to be mean about children., having children.😦 How awful, this is sad.
This is a spurious argument. According to Wikipedia (I know, but it’s referenced) there has been one, ONE, recorded case of a 5 year old mother, NONE at age 6 or 7, ONE at age 8 and a handful at age 9. It is incredibly rare. In most of these cases, the child was delivered and was not a threat to the life of the mother. There are exceptions such as the recent case in Brazil which was complicated because she was pregnant with twins. Multiples add risk at any age. The usual remedy for maternal risk is to deliver early and by C-section, not to kill the child. None of these young mothers from the references, by the way, died from the childbirth. Regardless, the age of the mother is no reason to sentance the child to death.

And as they say, hard cases make bad law. How does it make any sence to claim that abortion must be legal for all 9 months on demand because a child might be the victim of a crime and might get pregnant and *might *have a health issue due to the pregnancy. 🤷
 
This is a spurious argument. According to Wikipedia (I know, but it’s referenced) there has been one, ONE, recorded case of a 5 year old mother, NONE at age 6 or 7, ONE at age 8 and a handful at age 9. It is incredibly rare.

It is incredibly rare and as such doesn’t really contribute to the thread argument. But thank you for finding that. 🙂
 
Childbirth, even to “100% healthy women and babies” is not without it’s risk. Perfectly healthy women still do, sometimes, die during childbirth. It is never a woman’s right to kill her child to save herself. Always try to save BOTH mother and child, but if a choice must be made, let the child live. Can there really be any other morally right choice? I don’t personally know any parents that would kill their children to save themselves - quite the opposite.

Annie
 
We need less people on this earth, not more. Abort away… There is no God so you are going to be super disappointed when you die.😛
 
you people seem to be mean about children., having children.😦 How awful, this is sad.
What IS mean, awful and sad is that you’ve decided, for no good reason, that just because a child hasn’t been born yet it has fewer rights and its life is automatically less important than the rights and life of its mother.

The contrary is true - Jesus emphasised helping the poor and helpless, ‘the least of these my brothers’. In other words those who are most innocent and least able to defend themselves. And who is more innocent, helpless and vulnerable than a baby in the womb?

As if there is anything magical about the process of being born that suddenly endows you with rights that you didn’t have even before you were born!
 
Childbirth, even to “100% healthy women and babies” is not without it’s risk. Perfectly healthy women still do, sometimes, die during childbirth. It is never a woman’s right to kill her child to save herself. Always try to save BOTH mother and child, but if a choice must be made, let the child live. Can there really be any other morally right choice? I don’t personally know any parents that would kill their children to save themselves - quite the opposite.

Annie
But if the choice comes down to it, and it’s either one or the other and both definatly can’t be saved…is it morally wrong to let the child die to save the mother? Usually in cases such as these the woman isn’t the one to choose, but the husband or the doctor, as she would usually be unconscious at that point?

Basically, I agree with you. My husband and I had this talk last night that I’d want the child to live. But, in a case where it really is one or the other, both can’t be saved, would be be unethical in the eyes of the church to choose the woman over the child to let live? And note I am saying let live. Not the deliberate killing of one to save the other. I just can’t imagine that the catholic church has gone as far as dictate that a parent must always die for their child to be in the good graces of God.
 
But if the choice comes down to it, and it’s either one or the other and both definatly can’t be saved…is it morally wrong to let the child die to save the mother? Usually in cases such as these the woman isn’t the one to choose, but the husband or the doctor, as she would usually be unconscious at that point?

Basically, I agree with you. My husband and I had this talk last night that I’d want the child to live. But, in a case where it really is one or the other, both can’t be saved, would be be unethical in the eyes of the church to choose the woman over the child to let live? And note I am saying let live. Not the deliberate killing of one to save the other. I just can’t imagine that the catholic church has gone as far as dictate that a parent must always die for their child to be in the good graces of God.
Once again I ask, give me one medical disease/complication where, in our modern world, this happens? Where directly killing the child will save the mother? Just one, if you win I will put a dollar in the poor box. If you cannot, I will ask you to put a dollar in your parish poor box.
 
But if the choice comes down to it, and it’s either one or the other and both definatly can’t be saved…is it morally wrong to let the child die to save the mother? Usually in cases such as these the woman isn’t the one to choose, but the husband or the doctor, as she would usually be unconscious at that point?

Basically, I agree with you. My husband and I had this talk last night that I’d want the child to live. But, in a case where it really is one or the other, both can’t be saved, would be be unethical in the eyes of the church to choose the woman over the child to let live? And note I am saying let live. Not the deliberate killing of one to save the other. I just can’t imagine that the catholic church has gone as far as dictate that a parent must always die for their child to be in the good graces of God.
I think you’re misunderstanding church teaching - if the life of the child were the only consideration then things like removing an ectopic pregnancy or a cancerous uterus wouldn’t ever be permissible. Now we know they ARE permissible, under certain very very strict guidelines.

As the previous poster said, more direct medical intervention, ie directly killing the child, is not ever, as far as I am aware, the only option available for the treatment of any medical condition of the mother.
 
I saw a quote that said “A women has a right to her body, even if she is still in the womb”

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
Once again I ask, give me one medical disease/complication where, in our modern world, this happens? Where directly killing the child will save the mother? Just one, if you win I will put a dollar in the poor box. If you cannot, I will ask you to put a dollar in your parish poor box.
:eek: Wow…

I was just tossing out a hypothetical situation for discussion purposes. No, I do not know of any circumstance where this could happen. I don’t even know if one has ever existed. But what if one did happen, just for the sake of discussion. This was all I was trying to say…
 
Little children die from having babies? What on earth are you talking about??? Age 5? WHO gets pregnant at age 5? Not any mother I’ve ever heard of!

Any girl who is old enough to engage in intercourse, get pregnant and have a child herself is most assuredly not a little child!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers
They were raped, they didn’t engage in intercourse willingly.
However, it is interesting to note that they all chose life, and not a single one of them was hurt by it. The 5 year-old’s son was raised as a brother.
 
**Thank you all who replied to my message about a woman dying for her child while she was pregnant. I was not trying to imply that the baby was a “disease” or was an aggresor in anyway, I just didn’t know how else to articulate what I was trying to say. Now that the idea of a mother saving her already born child like in the case of jumping out in traffic or something, and that’s considered heroic but refusing to have an abortion to save your life isn’t, it puts things in a better perespective. **
 
:eek: Wow…

I was just tossing out a hypothetical situation for discussion purposes. No, I do not know of any circumstance where this could happen. I don’t even know if one has ever existed. But what if one did happen, just for the sake of discussion. This was all I was trying to say…
Those of us who work every single day in the pro life movement hear this excuse every single day - yet, no condition exists where this happens. It happens in the movies.

It did happen before modern medicine, rarely. Now, doctors can keep mom and baby on bed rest in the hospital and deliver baby ASAP by a C-section. Even if the baby is very tiny and has a small chance of living, that c-section gives the baby and mom a chance.

Please, drop the old tired red herring. We are so tired of seeing him.
 
ue.

Like Kager says: Please provide actual examples of the medical conditions that would cause the scnarios you present.
I say: they can’t

I don’t find it hard to believe AT ALL that a woman would forgo life-saving treatments for the sake of her child. In fact it would seem kind of odd to me that she wouldn’t try to save the life of her baby at almost all costs. I’ve seen it, I’ve heard of it.

As 1ke said: She had uterine cancer while pregant. The only way to save her life was to remove the uterus, which of course would have resulted in the baby growing inside the uterus to die. She could have morally chosen to do so. But , she chose not to have the uterine cancer treatment until after the baby was born. The baby was born safely, but her cancer had spread and she died shortly after.
And I say: now that’s a choice, isn’t it? Her choice. I don’t know what I would do in her position, but these are the senarios that matter, not the over-the-top nonsense ones that are posted in a desperate effort to try and make a point that doesn’t fit the situation anyway.

Actually, I am one of those rare or unique women who were put into this situation. My husband and I were using NFP religiously and I became pregnant (was told this was due to a second ovulation - anyway I digress) let me preface before going on that I have kidney disease as well as serious gynecological problems - I will always be high risk with regards to getting pregnant. I wound up in hospital a few times for various reasons - some kidney related some related to high blood pressure. In the fifth month I began bleeding excessively - we got it under control and I was on bedrest in hospital. A few days later when getting my sheets changed, it began again - we waited as long as we could. At this early stage (at this time) fetus could not survive outside of the mother even with great help. I waited as long as I could and lost so much blood that I almost died as well. My husband and the doctor were smart enough to save my life - and I’m grateful they did. The first thing that had to be done was to get the baby out to stop the bleeding which they did. We did everything we could as did the doctor. So yes, there are situations where this does still happen. They may be rare, but I’m glad my husband and my doctor were wise enough to know that my life was valuable - the baby had to come out - I’ve been asked, if I could have just continued to carry the baby and be kept alive by artificial means - after getting over the callousness of that kind of question, I did mention it to my doctor -and unless I was willing to die to try to carry this child longer, there was no way he would have lived. And it’s very unlikely that with my having lost so much blood that the fetus would have survived with competent brain function even if he was born alive. For the two people that previously asked me (on another post and if you’re reading this one)- it really does make a woman feel like all she’s good for is to carry a baby when given that kind of question. IMHO, it really does seem that if the Church had to choose that it would always choose even the possibility of a fetus living over that of the mother. We wanted to have this child very badly, but as my husband has told me many a time, he doesn’t want to be a single father. Some of you may say “look at St. Gianna” - yes, she chose not to endanger her pregnancy, but that was her choice - not even the Church says we have to make that choice. And just as a point of contention - St. Gianna did not DIE of cancer - she died of sepsis - she got an infection after the tumor was removed. I haven’t posted my story to get comments or approval about what happened, I’ve only posted this because someone said something about these types of things no longer happen. I’m living proof that they do.
God Bless
Rye
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers
They were raped, they didn’t engage in intercourse willingly.
However, it is interesting to note that they all chose life, and not a single one of them was hurt by it. The 5 year-old’s son was raised as a brother.
Yes, very interesting indeed. A case of the human body being surprisingly adaptable when left alone and actually allowed to do part of what it was designed for.

To me doesn’t matter one way or 'tother whether they chose intercourse willingly or not, for purposes of discussing the morality of abortion.

After all it’s hardly the fetus’ fault how it was conceived, and the circumstances don’t make it any the less a human being with all the rights that entails. Including the right to life.
 
Bumping a sort of old thread with a question:

People are asking for actual, verifiable scenarios where a medical condition would require that an unborn baby be killed in order to save the mother’s life. It seems like the only consistent example of this anyone can come up with is ectopic pregnancy. So I was just wondering, what is the Church’s position on ectopic pregnancies? Or more specifically, what is the Church’s position on treating ectopic pregnancies (which necessarily involves the death of the embryo)?
 
Bumping a sort of old thread with a question:

People are asking for actual, verifiable scenarios where a medical condition would require that an unborn baby be killed in order to save the mother’s life. It seems like the only consistent example of this anyone can come up with is ectopic pregnancy. So I was just wondering, what is the Church’s position on ectopic pregnancies? Or more specifically, what is the Church’s position on treating ectopic pregnancies (which necessarily involves the death of the embryo)?
Ectopic pregnancy, as well as another, though I forget the name. It’s when the fetus itself turns into a tumor and will kill the mother if it is not removed. I honestly forget what it is, and it will not become viable.
 
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