A Younger Perspective on the Ordinary Form

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runningdude

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After reading through the sometimes heated conversations about the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite, and the Ordinary Form of the Latin Rite, I would like to offer my perspective as a twenty-two year old who grew up only vaguely knowing that the holy sacrifice of mass was once celebrated in Latin according to a most ancient of liturgies.

Now, I’ve been to Mass, celebrated in the Ordinary Form, literally ever since I was born (as cradle Catholic as it comes!), and from what I could tell, our parish was always very reverent. The first priest when I was born would even spend greater than an hour on the celebration, following the GIRM to a T with all the pauses for meditation, etc. From my experience this was how I believed that the Mass was always celebrated.

I’ve read people disparage the practice of holding of the congregation holding hands during the Our Father, and I had a hard time not chuckling, because I was so mad when my parish discontinued this practice, because they were changing the liturgy! I even evoked the Orthodox faith, saying how there liturgy never changed, why is ours! Growing up, I always found this to be the climax of the mass, joining hands to pray together before our Lord in form of the Host. It was how I always thought it was supposed to be.

Our parish, which I’ve been blessed to be located only up the block from my house, always celebrated the holy sacrifice of mass with reverent music, organ based music (even if just an electric organ due to prohibitive costs). It may not have been ancient Gregorian chant, but I wasn’t really aware a more ancient music existed. And when our new music director started a church choir, the hymns, especially the Gloria, were down right magical (in a reverent, not-at-all-witchy kind of way 😉 ).

Going to college, which I just graduated, was an interesting experience. We had both Student Masses, and the Permanent Parishioner Masses (seperated by times of celebration, not really by attendance). I found the student masses to be down right beautiful, and the regular masses almost painful! The dyconomi was striking.

Now my only beef really was with the choice of music for the 10 o’clock mass, which was held in the Student Center, as opposed to the Chapel. We played folksy music, and the version of the Our Father we sang had too many “hear our prayers” thrown in. I will NOT presume to claim that there was anything sacrilege about the mass, when my schedule dictated I come to this mass, but I did avoid going in favor of the student masses whenever possible!

The student masses, as I said, were so reverent. The chapel was arranged in one of those modern alter on the side configurations, but it was suitably adorn for the celebration of the sacrament, and I’d even seen pictures of the renovation chapel, and I think the new configuration was a vast improvement.

Quite possibly because only truly faithful students would be bothered to attend Mass while in college, everything was done mostly to the book, except a few changes to the order of things that might have to do with the Jesuits running the the chapel. A student choir, accompanied by real air-piped organ, sang more-traditional style hymns at every mass, and the only problem was the nightmare that was distributing the Holy Eucharist from the semi-circular seating! As a civil engineering student, studying traffic management though, this seemed to be a problem of planning, not a lack of reverence :-).

Reading through the forums here, I’ve gained an appreciation for the esteem people hold the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite, especially in light of the terrible abuses I’ve read about, but thankfully, never experienced personally. Having read so much about it, my heart burns to attend one myself in the not to distant future! However, I thought I should share my experience as a young person growing up only knowing the Ordinary Form of the Latin Rite, and having my heart burn just as intensely watching our priest celebrate and consecrate the Eucharistic elements with due reverence!

Thank-you and God Bless!
 
I think that change in the OF takes time while the EF can just go back to the way things were done. What I am saying is that I have the impression of the overall celebration of the OF is going toward a more rigorous use of the GIRM but it takes a long pastoral time to get all the members of the parish in step without loosing most of them.

Now I am talking only about my parish and I can tell that with a lot of patience the pastor changed things over 15 years. As soon as we cleaned the Church the resurrected Christ on the cross disappeared and now we have a beautiful crucifix hanging over the altar, more statues appeared, a chapel for perpetual adoration has been built, a new chapel for smaller ceremonies has been built following an architecture similar to older monasteries.

The pastor leads most of the prayers facing “ad orientem” except for the consecration (at least for now). He chants the mass, he has strong altar server program that truly foster vocations to the priesthood and religious life. He is the one that make sure that we have smells and bells and patens too. He is the one that during the homily told people how they excommunicate themselves is they treat the Eucharist in a sacrilegious manner (and he gave details of what some people appear to be doing). He is the one that during the homily complained about couples going to the Cana retreats and still shacking up (his own words). During an homily he used the forbidden term “cafeteria Catholics” and he reminded people that obedience to the Magisterium is not an option but it is an obligation. I could go on with examples.

My parish is not perfect and for sure my pastor in not either. However, that is a sign of change back to orthodoxy coming our way. It will take time because we cannot force people to traditionalism but it takes time to convert their hearts to tradition. Remember the words of Jaroslav Pelikan: “Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living”
 
RunningDude…

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions regarding the OF and EF Masses, and certainly entitled to post them here and receive them with respect.

I’d only like to mention that the opinions you read on CAF are from a primarily conservative and traditional community of Catholics who very much revere traditionalism and all connected with it.

Except for a few people who routinely post about their own positive experiences with the OF Masses celebrated in their parishes, you don’t hear from the millions of other Catholics who also love, revere and prefer the OF Mass and have done so for over 40 years… they don’t seem to post on this Forum on any subject, not just the variances in the Mass. ( CAF is the most conservative community I’ve ever personally experienced, and I grew up in the 1950’s church.)

I would never deny that there’s an element of sanctity about the EF Mass that is often missing from the OF, and of course people are entitled to the EF form of worship, and always have been… I am saying that the majority of American Catholics sincerely and honestly prefer the OF version.
 
RunningDude…

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions regarding the OF and EF Masses, and certainly entitled to post them here and receive them with respect.

I’d only like to mention that the opinions you read on CAF are from a primarily conservative and traditional community of Catholics who very much revere traditionalism and all connected with it.

Except for a few people who routinely post about their own positive experiences with the OF Masses celebrated in their parishes, you don’t hear from the millions of other Catholics who also love, revere and prefer the OF Mass and have done so for over 40 years… they don’t seem to post on this Forum on any subject, not just the variances in the Mass. ( CAF is the most conservative community I’ve ever personally experienced, and I grew up in the 1950’s church.)

I would never deny that there’s an element of sanctity about the EF Mass that is often missing from the OF, and of course people are entitled to the EF form of worship, and always have been… I am saying that** the majority of American Catholics sincerely and honestly prefer the OF version.**
the majority of american catholics do not go to Mass, do not believe in the Real Presence, contracept and abort at higher rates than non catholics, and (most important for this discussion) have never been to or dont remember attending a TLM (the post 1970 ones any way). therefore they do not know if they would like the the NO or the TLM more
 
RunningDude…

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions regarding the OF and EF Masses, and certainly entitled to post them here and receive them with respect.

I’d only like to mention that the opinions you read on CAF are from a primarily conservative and traditional community of Catholics who very much revere traditionalism and all connected with it.

Except for a few people who routinely post about their own positive experiences with the OF Masses celebrated in their parishes, you don’t hear from the millions of other Catholics who also love, revere and prefer the OF Mass and have done so for over 40 years… they don’t seem to post on this Forum on any subject, not just the variances in the Mass. ( CAF is the most conservative community I’ve ever personally experienced, and I grew up in the 1950’s church.)

I would never deny that there’s an element of sanctity about the EF Mass that is often missing from the OF, and of course people are entitled to the EF form of worship, and always have been… I am saying that the majority of American Catholics sincerely and honestly prefer the OF version.
Ah yes, I came to the conclusion early on that CAF is quite conservative, and I greatly appreciate that about it - being able to talk about a faithful and obedient observance of the Catholic faith and have no one bat an eye!

I just thought it was kind of amusing for instance, that some people get so upset about things like the holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, and I grew up thinking that was the orthodox way of reciting the prayer!

I like the faithful nature here, despite the occasional heated argument. It reminds me of the parish at school I mentioned, especially when the FOCUS ministry came to the campus my senior year. I was reluctant to get sucked up into one of their bible studies, but it turned out to be such a rewarding experience, and also turned me towards daily masses and recitation of the rosary!

I think Cristiano said it best, saying that transitioning to a universally reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form will take time. As I said, growing up, I always thought my parish was quite reverent, and reading these forums, my heart is starting to be tugged towards what was lost in the transition from the “old” Ordinary Form (today’s Extraordinary Form).

Reading some of the posts, such as how the ancient liturgy called for such reverence and care of the consecrated Eucharistic Elements gives me such a greater appreciation for the current priest at my home parish, as I watch him taking that great care, even in context of the modern Ordinary Form of the Latin liturgy.

So in part I want to thank everyone who so passionately defends the traditional and the reverent, and give the context of my thanks!
 
the majority of american catholics do not go to Mass, do not believe in the Real Presence, contracept and abort at higher rates than non catholics, and (most important for this discussion) have never been to or dont remember attending a TLM (the post 1970 ones any way). therefore they do not know if they would like the the NO or the TLM more
Please, let us keep the peace here. Many people have fallen away, and that is truly a sad event. However, the last 100+ years have been some of the most tumultuous and disheartening in human history, and I honestly believe that some of these changes were just too much of a shock for the human elements of Christ’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to respond too all at once.

The Catholic hierarchy has taken great strides to rein in the most serious of liturgical abuses taking place on our alters, laying the foundations for the Church to become more savy in negotiating the modern world, preaching the truth of sexual morality and humanity dignity to a hostile world, so that when the prodigal faithful return, they have true and holy sacraments to nourish them.

The question though of whether the newly returned would prefer the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form I believe must wait though until the liturgical abuses that many find today are reigned in. If a parish currently abuses the Ordinary Form, I see no reason to believe they wouldn’t abuse the Extraordinary Form - and abuses in the Extraordinary Form would truly be tragic!
 
I think that change in the OF takes time while the EF can just go back to the way things were done. What I am saying is that I have the impression of the overall celebration of the OF is going toward a more rigorous use of the GIRM but it takes a long pastoral time to get all the members of the parish in step without loosing most of them.

Now I am talking only about my parish and I can tell that with a lot of patience the pastor changed things over 15 years. As soon as we cleaned the Church the resurrected Christ on the cross disappeared and now we have a beautiful crucifix hanging over the altar, more statues appeared, a chapel for perpetual adoration has been built, a new chapel for smaller ceremonies has been built following an architecture similar to older monasteries.

The pastor leads most of the prayers facing “ad orientem” except for the consecration (at least for now). He chants the mass, he has strong altar server program that truly foster vocations to the priesthood and religious life. He is the one that make sure that we have smells and bells and patens too. He is the one that during the homily told people how they excommunicate themselves is they treat the Eucharist in a sacrilegious manner (and he gave details of what some people appear to be doing). He is the one that during the homily complained about couples going to the Cana retreats and still shacking up (his own words). During an homily he used the forbidden term “cafeteria Catholics” and he reminded people that obedience to the Magisterium is not an option but it is an obligation. I could go on with examples.

My parish is not perfect and for sure my pastor in not either. However, that is a sign of change back to orthodoxy coming our way. It will take time because we cannot force people to traditionalism but it takes time to convert their hearts to tradition. Remember the words of Jaroslav Pelikan: “Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living”
Thank-you 🙂 This gives me hope that the Church truly is moving in the correct direction!
 
RunningDude…

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions regarding the OF and EF Masses, and certainly entitled to post them here and receive them with respect.

I’d only like to mention that the opinions you read on CAF are from a primarily conservative and traditional community of Catholics who very much revere traditionalism and all connected with it.

Except for a few people who routinely post about their own positive experiences with the OF Masses celebrated in their parishes, you don’t hear from the millions of other Catholics who also love, revere and prefer the OF Mass and have done so for over 40 years… they don’t seem to post on this Forum on any subject, not just the variances in the Mass. ( CAF is the most conservative community I’ve ever personally experienced, and I grew up in the 1950’s church.)

I would never deny that there’s an element of sanctity about the EF Mass that is often missing from the OF, and of course people are entitled to the EF form of worship, and always have been… I am saying that the majority of American Catholics sincerely and honestly prefer the OF version.
Really? Hhmm didn’t seem like it until 2007 even now you get “da look” if you even mention the possiblility of EF mass at your home parish.
 
the majority of american catholics do not go to Mass, do not believe in the Real Presence, contracept and abort at higher rates than non catholics, and (most important for this discussion) have never been to or dont remember attending a TLM (the post 1970 ones any way). therefore they do not know if they would like the the NO or the TLM more
Indeed.

Just for old time sake, on the way home yesterday I drove by a Christ’s Church where I once attended some organ recitals. The huge parking lot was full. They have two services on Sunday and they don’t have communion. You wonder how they do it. There are more Lutheran Churches around me and they always put white crosses (to signify their anti-abortion position) on their lawns before the Catholic Churches do. The Muslims have prayer services and traffic is backed up for miles. While the local Catholic Church has “Bake sales.”
 
Please, let us keep the peace here. Many people have fallen away, and that is truly a sad event. However, the last 100+ years have been some of the most tumultuous and disheartening in human history, and I honestly believe that some of these changes were just too much of a shock for the human elements of Christ’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church to respond too all at once.

The Catholic hierarchy has taken great strides to rein in the most serious of liturgical abuses taking place on our alters, laying the foundations for the Church to become more savy in negotiating the modern world, preaching the truth of sexual morality and humanity dignity to a hostile world, so that when the prodigal faithful return, they have true and holy sacraments to nourish them.

The question though of whether the newly returned would prefer the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form I believe must wait though until the liturgical abuses that many find today are reigned in. If a parish currently abuses the Ordinary Form, I see no reason to believe they wouldn’t abuse the Extraordinary Form - and abuses in the Extraordinary Form would truly be tragic!
keep the peace? i wasnt trying to start arguments, just reporting what i know to be true
 
Hi runningdude and everyone,

I wanted to put in my 2 cents. First Runningdude, remember to see both sides of an issue as you clearly do so well here, always makes you " a hawk among doves and a dove among hawks" I think there is a lot of unecessary confrontation in this forum in particular. I think that this anger covers a deep sadness and mourning for the terrible loss pre vatican 2 Catholics suffered when everything they loved was thrown out the window. I heard many stories from my parents who eventually adjusted but still suffered greatly. It makes folks like me and possibly you a little gun shy about talking about how much we enjoy Mass and the Church presently especially in conservative circles even though we ARE conservative devout Catholics because we fear being seen as “less than” in groups of “traditionalists”.

However, despite the fact that my parish and parish priest are devout and loving people,
I myself have found a deep and burning hunger for the reverence that I hear spoken of and envision at an EF Mass. I have watched them on You Tube and on EWTN. I am at a loss over the injustice of not being taught this universal prayer of the Church. I cannot even participate as I have NO familiarity with Laitn , no Church Latin at all, no familiarity with what is going on there. I have read and studied and tried to figure out this for myself and yet, it is still a foriegn country.

I wish for a time when people did not talk after Mass in Church like they were at the supermarket., or let their children wear light up LED shoes that are so bright they almost blind you in the communion aisle, where people would think it was the norm to kneel for communion. I was born in 1971, raised in OF, raised with banners and guitar masses instead of catechism, did not know what benediction was until I was an adult. I have never received Communion except in the hand and wouldn’t really know how to do it any other way although I suspect that’s not really the best way.

I believe that like myself most of the people on CAF are, as a whole are regular,Mass attending, not CINO, Catholics with a conservative bent to be sure (but that is a wide spectrum in and of itself), who are pro life. Not including the forms for other religions of course.
Thank you for sharing your experience runningdude . I enjoyed reading it.
 
My perspective, the one I described in the aforementioned argumentative thread regarding my recent Novus Ordo experience, is also a young perspective.

I’m a young urban professional in my mid-20’s that is simply unhappy with the state of the “modern” church. Not “modern” in the sense of “down with V2!”; rather, “modern” in the shunning of traditional values and traditions that were effective and were the norm up until 40 years ago.

I was not fulfilled celebrating the OF mass, and my parish was a conservative Polish-American parish mind you. I just feel as if something is missing. I thirst for more reverence, more adoration, more devotion for Christ’s Church. I want to see more respect. That’s not to say it can only be delivered in the EF, but it is more the rule than the exception for those that attend it.

And I don’t think that’s a bad quality. Perhaps the low turnout in many parishes may be attributed to the fact that some priests exercise lax principles and don’t enforce, or simply choose not to correct, certain behavior that perhaps 40 years ago was unheard of. For example, it’s an utter and complete shame a priest should have to remind his congregation to silence their cell phones before mass.

Fortunately, many in my generation are more active, motivated, and interested in experiencing a traditional mass since “progressive” or “modern” ones have a tendency to drive people away. Whether that is through an EF or OF mass is beside the point.
 
It wasn’t specifically your post that prompted me to write this, although I did stumble across it shortly before. I’d been reflecting about my experience with the New Order for some time since joining this forum.

Vatican II has a very special place in my heart, having studied it in the seventh grade and even choosing the Blessed John the XXIII as my confirmation patron. I was even under the vague impression that he was more directly involved with promulgating the current ordinary form, but learned today that he in fact actually reissued the final 1962 Roman Missal that is still in use today! Ever since learning of continued use of the older order of Mass, I felt a certain tug towards it to experience it myself. Perhaps it was the prayers of my patron leading me this way!

I did in fact get a chance to visit one at my diocese Ecclesia Dei ministry last week. Just driving towards it, I felt I was heading somewhere holy. I took a turn on to the wrong highway, and to correct myself, turned on to a back country road, and found myself in the most beautiful of New England fall settings.

I approached the church parking lot, and of course panicked because it was empty (I was fifteen minutes early), but I was able to use that time to reflect on the inner beauty of the little country church, either preserved in its pre-vatican II state, or renovated to suitably hold the ancient-use liturgy. As congregates filter in, I could tell they were all expecting something holy - It is truly wonderful to be in the presence of the lord who understand the significance of the mass. It very much reminded me of reverence at the Student Masses at school or the daily masses at the Cathedral.

As for the mass itself, I have to admit, I was totally lost. They had red English missalettes, but it was a low mass, so the priest was of course observing the sacred silence for most of the prayers. And it was a bit disconcerting. I missed reciting the Our Father out loud, and I was hoping I could better observe the Priest’s sacred hands handling the Eucharistic elements (he was celebrating facing the tabernacle, leading us to Christ). Watching the priest at my home parish handle the elements during the consecration really moves me, as it shows his understanding of the sacredness of the elements, and renews my devotion to the Communion Host.

Overall, it was a rewarding experience, but its something I will have to study more to more fully appreciate the ancient liturgy. I’ve read most of the text before going and studied some of its history, but participating in its living, breathing expression is a whole other ballgame! I probably will not make it my regular parish (I in fact live a stones throw down the block from my very reverent home parish 🙂 ), but do want to make it a more regular part of my spiritual life, so do any of you have suggestions of how to better get a handle of the mass?

Thank you, especially to those who have already shared on my little post here 🙂
 
the majority of american catholics do not go to Mass, do not believe in the Real Presence, contracept and abort at higher rates than non catholics, and (most important for this discussion) have never been to or dont remember attending a TLM (the post 1970 ones any way). therefore they do not know if they would like the the NO or the TLM more
Maybe this is true where your at? I don’t know. I do know that I go to Mass…I even try to get to daily Mass. Believe in the Real Presence, go to adoration, and had to come to terms and believe that contraception is wrong. Do I know if I like the TLM more:shrug: Don’t know. That is an hour away. What I do know is that I love the NO as it is celebrate at my parish. My heart aches when it is over and I can barely wait for next Sunday to be here again so I can be back in Mass. Daily Mass is not quite the same. Why is that a bad thing?
 
As for the mass itself, I have to admit, I was totally lost. They had red English missalettes, but it was a low mass, so the priest was of course observing the sacred silence for most of the prayers. And it was a bit disconcerting.
That is understandable. I would probably be similarly disconcerted if I were to attend an Eastern Liturgy in Syrian or Greek. However, I would keep in mind this rite has been around for many centuries luring in people from many cultures and unifying most if not all of them.

Hopefully some of the Latin prayers will become more recognizeable and you may be able to follow them in heart if not out loud (which incidentally you can do if you attend the Latin OF.)
 
However, despite the fact that my parish and parish priest are devout and loving people, I myself have found a deep and burning hunger for the reverence that I hear spoken of and envision at an EF Mass. I have watched them on You Tube and on EWTN. I am at a loss over the injustice of not being taught this universal prayer of the Church. I cannot even participate as I have NO familiarity with Laitn , no Church Latin at all, no familiarity with what is going on there. I have read and studied and tried to figure out this for myself and yet, it is still a foriegn country.
The thin red missal from the Ecclesia Dei organization is an excellent way to orient oneself to this rite. My wife and I read it through several times to understand what was being said and to get a feel for the structure of the Mass. After a short while you will start recognizing “sign posts”, familiar places in the Mass that let you know where you are–the obvious ones like the Kyrie Eleison, the Epistle, Gospel, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei come first, then more subtle ones like the Orate Fratres. For us it took about ten times before we started to “get it”, then it can easily become so much a part of you, so dear to your heart that you never want to be anywhere else.

The prayers are sublime and praying them with the priest is the main participation that the Church encourages of us.
 
The question though of whether the newly returned would prefer the Ordinary Form or the Extraordinary Form I believe must wait though until the liturgical abuses that many find today are reigned in. If a parish currently abuses the Ordinary Form, I see no reason to believe they wouldn’t abuse the Extraordinary Form - and abuses in the Extraordinary Form would truly be tragic!
I second it, except that I remember how the TLM was abused in the sixties. There is nothing in the rite, which would prevent abuses.

Also I remember that when the New Mass came in, the majority of the priests believed that the new rubrics will be enforced, and there will be no more innovations. Interestingly in Hungary up to the eighties this was true, the Masses were according to the rules, reverent and worshiping God, not the human success.

Imho the Confiteor and the Roman Canon could be enforced even today in every parish. That is only the matter of a pontifical edict. It is possible that the liberals would go to schism, but for the rest to put the repentance, the sacrifice, the inevitable death and so on to the center, would prevent many abuses.
 
thin red missal from the Ecclesia Dei organization
What is the name of this book ? sorry , just a little confused about how to find/ recognize it. Is this something that can be purchased online? Is that what you did ? How many times did you attend the Latin Mass before you went up for Communion with everyone else or did you do that that the first time? Did it make you nervous?

Thanks,
Maria
 
What is the name of this book ? sorry , just a little confused about how to find/ recognize it. Is this something that can be purchased online? Is that what you did ? How many times did you attend the Latin Mass before you went up for Communion with everyone else or did you do that that the first time? Did it make you nervous?

Thanks,
Maria
I suppose the quoted poster referred to this

cantius.org/go/webstore/product/booklet_missal_for_praying_the_tridentine_latin_mass/

This is the Mass for Trinity Sunday, so it has the Ordinarium of the Mass.

This Traditional Mass is not holier than the New Mass. It is Jesus Christ - who transsubstantiates the bread and wine into his Body and Blood - the one who is Holy, and he is the same as in the New Mass. If you are in the state of sanctifying grace (made a good confession) you can receive the Eucharist with the same peace in both forms.
 
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