AA is DEISTIC why can I be a member?

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Cloudald

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To who it may concern,

I believe myself to be a practical Catholic. I do my best to adhere to the church’s precepts and of course to our Lord’s commandments.

Recently while researching and subsequently writing a paper on Southern architecture, I came to find that Masonic Halls were typically the only buildings spared the torch during Sherman’s march. Of course I wanted to know the reasons why, to better explain the significance of the architecture of the period, etcetera.

Caveat: I am not and have never been a Free Mason. I am completely aware of the 1983 proclamation of the continued incompatibility of Free Masonry with the Church.

My concern became that I am a member of AA.

Free Masonry is apparently still banned because it MAY (I believe it likely actively does)encourage deism according to Cannon Law examiner Rev. Thomas C. Anslow.

I found an explanation of cannon law helping to explain the reason why due to a fear that I may be “practicing” deism by being with AA.

It is as follows: [Note: For the last 18 months prominent online California “E-Mason’s” have been posting copies of an ambivalently written letter by a Californian Roman Catholic Judicial Vicar on the Church’s current position in regard to Masonic membership and Roman Catholics.]

RETRACTION OF LETTER

On 15 September 2000 I wrote a letter in which I gave my opinion in answer to the question you had asked, “whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic lodge.” As you know, I gave a qualified affirmative reply “at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is probably yes.” My qualification was based on two points, uncertainty about the beliefs and teachings of Freemasonry, especially as this may vary locally, and uncertainty about the interpretation and application of the statement issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on 26 November 1983. I concluded that the historical development of the Church’s law was away from a blanket prohibition to a case-by-case assessment of what constitutes an association forbidden to Catholics.

As a result of my letter having been posted on several Masonic websites and of various inquiries this generated, it has come to my attention that my analysis was faulty, and accordingly I need to retract my opinion. I realize this will create much consternation, and I apologize for that. Please let me explain.

In early 1985 the Congregation mentioned above published an explanation of its position as given in the November 1983 statement. The explanation can be found in the English edition of the Vatican’s official newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano (11 March 1985, page 2) under the title “Irreconcilability between Christian faith and Freemasonry. Reflections a year after declaration of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

The key point in the argument is that the system of symbols common to Freemasons around the world (centering on the Architect of the Universe and given added weight by the rule of secrecy) tends to foster a “supraconfessional humanitarian” way of conceiving the divine that neutralizes or replaces the faith dimension of our relationship with God. Even though given lodges may abstain from endorsing any particular position, including one that considers religious faith to be a matter of indifference (i.e., nothing more than a matter of personal preference), the contemporary world’s social atmosphere of moral and religious relativism creates a climate in which a merely humanitarian symbol system works to undermine the religious faith by which we receive God’s revelation.

It was for this reason that the Congregation declared that local church authorities are not competent to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations, and has reserved to itself the right to make any such pronouncements. Because of the serious danger posed to individual Catholics by the subtle but real influence of symbols described above, the Congregation declared that it would be objectively a grave sin for a Catholic to join a Masonic lodge. The prohibition from receiving Holy Communion is meant to highlight the gravity of the situation.

That being held true- “Even though given lodges may abstain from endorsing any particular position, including one that considers religious faith to be a matter of indifference (i.e., nothing more than a matter of personal preference), the contemporary world’s social atmosphere of moral and religious relativism creates a climate in which a merely humanitarian symbol system works to undermine the religious faith by which we receive God’s revelation.”

HOW THEN- can I continue in good conscious within a group that is considered by many states within the Union AS A Religion. ALCHOHOLICS ANYOMOUS IS CONSIDERED A RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION BY MANY STATES FOR TAX PURPOSES.

Furthermore- more often than not-
Clergymen of practically every denomination have given A.A. their blessing.
Edward Dowling, S.J.,* of the Queen’s Work staff, says, “Alcoholics Anonymous is natural; it is natural at the point where nature comes closest to the supernatural, namely in humiliations and in consequent humility. There is something spiritual about an art museum or a symphony, and the Catholic Church approves of our use of them. There is something spiritual about A.A. too, and Catholic participation in it almost invariably results in poor Catholics becoming better Catholics.”

I KNOW AA TO ACTIVELY ENCOURAGE ITS MEMBERS TO PRAY TO A GOD OF THIER UNDERSTANDING. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE (and often to help the newly sober member accept the tenants of AA) CHRISTIAN I.E. THE HOLY TRINITY.
AA HAS ITS OWN RELIGOUS TEXT “THE BIG BOOK.” AA ACTIVELY ENCOURAGES DIESM AND MORAL RELATIVITY BUT IS PRAISED BY THE CHURCH.

MY UNDERSTANDING OF CANNON LAW SAYS I MUST QUIT AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS SAVED MY LIFE.

What should I do?
 
Even though given lodges may abstain from endorsing any particular position, including one that considers religious faith to be a matter of indifference (i.e., nothing more than a matter of personal preference)

If this holds true that Lodges do in fact “abstain from endorsing any particular position, including one that considers religious faith to be a matter of indifference ,]” THEN I truly find myself to be out of Union with the Holy See. THE REASON IS ALTHOUGH AA IS HELD IN HIGH REGARD BY OUR HOLY CHURCH, IT IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN DIESTIC.

What then should I do.

Thank you for any (name removed by moderator)ut of this matter. I will leave AA if necessary and hope that the intercession of our Most Blessed Holy Mother and All the Angels and Saints before the Lord our God, will help to ensure my sobriety.

All the best,
Cloud
 
The Masonic service has a book on an alter. This book may be any book considered
sacred by any religiion, but usually one which is accepted where the particular lodge is located. It could be the bible, kuran, etc.

And in addition members take oaths which are meaningless and therefore
immoral, since oaths are only to be taken for serious matters which
warrant swearing.

The order also states that they offer resurrection of the dead. This has
no reference to Jesus and therefore is false according to christian belief.

What I have mentioned is just breifly the objectionable points. There are
the good points unmentioned, but we may not be forced to do wrong
in order to receive good. Even tho, in anyone’s opinion, the good out-
weighs the bad, it would still be unacceptable.

My understanding of Deism is that there is a God who created the
world but has no interaction with it. If this is true, then I do not
see AA as Deist. In fact, quite to the contrary, they admit to God and
ask his help. And their tenants do not have any of the ideas presented
by the masonic orders or any type of religious activity other than to acknowledge
the need for God’s help and human helplessness.

I am no authority in the church, but I do not see a problem, and I wish you the best.
 
There are priests in AA. It’s a wonderful organization that has saved millions of lives.
 
Alcoholism is “cunning, baffling, powerful…” Be careful that you are not looking for a way to avoid the most tried and true treatment for this disease: AA meetings and persistent involvement in the program.

God bless and keep you. Pray to Venerable Matt Talbot for his intercession. :gopray2:
 
Alcoholism is “cunning, baffling, powerful…” Be careful that you are not looking for a way to avoid the most tried and true treatment for this disease: AA meetings and persistent involvement in the program.

God bless and keep you. Pray to Venerable Matt Talbot for his intercession. :gopray2:
Here! Here!👍
 
That helps, I just want to make sure. Also I am nearly a year sober and my faith has been a large part of that. I am not looking for a way out. I love the fellowship.

I just do not want to be out of Union with the Church

God Bless
 
There are priests in AA. It’s a wonderful organization that has saved millions of lives.
Amen! AA is the only thing that works for alcoholics. Rehab, shrinks, &c, &c, are all [bad word].
The “God of their understanding” is to my mind non-sectarian rather than deistic and it’s also meant to avoid a stumbling block to non-believers.

You have to crawl before you can walk. Just getting someone to admit that here is a “higher power” and that they cannot heal themselves is importance.
 
AA has nothing to do with the Masons. It is not deistic in the sense that it promotes a faith or belief system. I simply do not understand the reasoning behind the question. Did you know some of the founders of AA were Catholic?
 
My question has nothing to do with Masonry, rather Supra confessional Humanism. I love AA.

A Caveat: I found that A.A. founders Dr. Bob and Clarance A.A. 2 and 3 Respectively were Master Masons and 32 Degree Scottish Rite.

I apologize for bringing Masonry into this discussion I was trying to let others understand my train of thought.

Note: I was actually shrived of my College Fraternities Masonic Affiliation enrollment when I received Extreme Unction after I had been shot five years ago, while delivering Pizzas. I am not a Free Mason. (Catholics can not enroll in Masonic affiliations without being in grave [even in my case unintentional] sin and may not take the Holy Sacrament.)

Again God was there when I was EXTREMELY close to death and I praise him for that. I also know that it is through his love that I remain a healthy and sober individual.

All the best,
Cloud
 
God bless you for caring enough to ask. Having been sober outside the walls of AA for 18 years (when as a young man I came into the Church), I still have a great deal of respect for what AA does. Look at calixsociety.org/ and see what you think. Your use of freemasonry as an example is a good one, but it is not really the same thing. AA is in NO way a religious organization, nor does it claim to be, or want to be. It is a fellowship of recovering alcoholics helping other alcoholics (which in turn helps themselves). AA is for sobriety; Catholicism is for salvation. If AA helps you maintain sobriety, so you can better “work out your salvation”, good for you. When I got sober, I realized there wasn’t room in my life for alcohol AND God, so I had to choose. When I drank, alcohol WAS my god. I chose God. Just because some people use AA as a religion doesn’t mean that it is what AA ever intended, and people misuse any fellwoship or organization. AA is a program of humility and surrender, even if some don’t live it as healthily as they could. If AA works for you, God bless it and let it help you witness healthy sobriety to others. AAs need to see recovering alcoholics who not only don’t reject organized religion, but experience salvation through their practice of it! God bless you one day at a time!
 
I wanted to write I found out about the Calix Society and actually spoke to the President last week. While they ask that you remain a firm AA, Calix offers the supplement that will firmly root my Recovery in the Church.

Honestly, I believe any push towards even a non-sectarian view of God is dangerous and can lead to “every religion is equal.” (Then again so can watching TV… Thank goodness for confession)

What had actually prompted the question was some “Old-Timers” (Non- and actual Catholics) “suggesting” I put AA before the Church.

The Church never let me down. I turned my back on the Church because of XYZ. I will spare everyone a sob story. However, some people may not understand that a program designed to restore one’s relationship with God for a Roman Universalist is a restoration with His Divine Institution.

Ultimately the Tenants of AA work when kept simple: Trust God, Clean House and Help Others

Happy Advent Season
 
Indeed! The Church concerns salvation, but AA gives people like us (the alcoholic) the tools to keep our heads on straight so we can live out that salvation. And yes, AA participation can lead to a religious relativism that can be dangerous for the uninformed and ungrounded. You are clearly not in this category. I never joined AA originally because I was new in the faith, a convert from agnosticism, freshly sober, etc. (a sob story as well!), and was concerned about these very matters. I didn’t trust myself enough not to compromise my Catholic beliefs, which were new to me, to be in AA, where people of all and no religious belief congregate. But the principles of AA are quite complimentary to Catholicism, despite people’s practices. Humility and trust. Your putting your Catholic faith at the top is absolutely right on, and Catholics who reverse the proper order are walking a dangerous line, I believe. You can be an example to them. May God bless you in your sobriety as you are able to clearly follow the path of salvation though your life in Christ’s true Church!
 
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