Abandoning NFP - damaging the Marriage?

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If a job is causing a couple to use ABC, the couple should seriously consider a change in the job situation. Being faithful to Church teaching, praying together as a family, and reclaiming balance in the home is possible. I have seen couples with extreme circumstances (chemotherapy,etc) become quite successful users of NFP with proper follow up with an instructor. One couple is now through menapause (they had 2 children due to the hardships but remained faithful to God and His Church) and is a shining light to all who know them. They are very thankful for all the Lord has given them. The joyand love of older couples who have “kept the faith” is remarkable and I would recommend changing methods or instructors if you do not feel confident. A couple’s ability to pass the faith with passion to otherrs (especially their children) is at risk by the use of ABC. If you have extra challenges as a couple in the use of NFP, you will not be abandoned. There are resources and hope - it is worth the effort.
 
With NFP we’ve had 6 pregnancies in the last 10 years. I would say that 3 of those were probably unexpected. Someone brought up breastfeeding for spacing- as an exclusive breastfeeder in the early months, I can tell you that it doesn’t work for everyone. But that’s an aside.
NFP simply HAS to work for us now and honestly we’ve had a few close calls in the last few months.
We are very tempted to abandon it after these scares. This is very stressful. I wish I could say NFP brings us closer together. I think the decision in our case to have a large family did bring us closer together in our marriage due to the necessity of sharing such a large workload and spending all of our time together caring for the children, but the bedroom stress does not.
Do we always take advantage of our post ovulatory period? No. But when you are really so busy and exhausted, there are few times in the month when the desire is there. It is tempting to free up the cycle with ABC in order to have even a few worry free nights together.
I’m not sure what we will do, the temptation is there, but the guilt of potentially sinning keeps it at bay for now.
 
I will tell you as an instructor I have witnesses awesome results when couples
  1. Go to instruction together, consistently, and use proper follow up.
  2. Do not mix and match methods - the methods are not meant to be used in that way
  3. Go back and work with an instructor after birth of a baby(when you return to fertility after a baby, your baseline infertility information will often change).
What holds true for you in your 20’s may not be what is true for you in your 30’s or 40"s.

When the man is involved in the instruction, the success of learning is increased and the woman’s anxiety is often relieved.
 
I’m sorry guys, I still don’t see the difference between NFP and ABC, both are preventing pregnancies (or hoping to). Some people on other threads have made it sound like ABC turns it into “just” sex, but when an NFP instructor is almost talking about “putting it in the diary” (for non fertile times) that’s even worse! You can’t schedule sex.

If it really is about trusting God, then maybe NFP is wrong too? What about those people who it’s danger to get pregnant…they will never have children so NFP in that case is never going to be procreative? Whys this right and ABC wrong? Yes I know you should be “open” and trust in God but if it is really about Gods will, why do people who are in danger avoid pregnancy with NFP, surely God would not allow it to happen unless it’s his will?

But I can’t see anyone recommending to a woman in danger to “trust God” and forgo NFP, ABC etc. 🤷 (and nor should they!)
 
As an instructor of NFP for 10 years I have seen couples abandon because they are using NFP with a contraceptive mentality. When using ABC you really do not prioritize time together. When using NFP to prayfully space pregnancies,couples should clear out the calendar to use available days. If I do a follow up for a couple and I see no use of the available days I try to provide gentle counsel for the couple to begin to do so. Perhaps they do not trust the method, in which case more instruction is necessary; or, maybe they have been too busy with other things and not working together to find time for each other. It is not the NFP which damages the marriage, it is the teamwork involved in its usage.
Momofffamily,

Again it is the assumptions made about couples who use ABC that I find incorrect. When I see the assumptions it does not open doors for dialogue. It makes me wonder if people use assumptions to avoid digging deeper and finding out they need to admit that the views they hold in their mind are not true. I admit I lose patience when I see all the assumptions made without even knowing the details or characteristics of another couple’s marriage.

With over 20 years of walking closely with couples who use NFP I too have conclusions I have drawn based on that experience. However, I would not make all or nothing comments about them. Part of my reason for posting here is that my conscience is bothered by my inability to be honest in the church I find my home. I have no issue with my transparency with Almighty God who knows our deepest motivations and sins. I feel a lack of authenticity and I am seeking out as to how this is going to unfold for me as I continue along in the church. Commenting anonymously tests the waters. At present, it has reminded me to stick with the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. As honesty does not really bring about anything productive. In some communities in brings about blacklisting, shunning and gossip. Who wants to deal with that? Not to mention all the judgment. This particular issue has become the identifying mark for who is a true Catholic or not. I find that remarkable given the depth of all the other things the church teaches like taking the plank out of your own eye before casting judgement, the beatitudes and all the parables of the gospels.

When you say, “couples who use ABC do not prioritize their time together” or suggest that couples who use ABC don’t understand or use the concept of teamwork in their intimate life it creates blankets statements that are not true. At least they are not true for my marriage. From my observations there are as many NFP using couples who don’t prioritize time together or understand teamwork as there are ABC using couples.

Also, using NFP with a “contraceptive mentality” is a cliche in the movement. One that has created much angst in internet discussions and disagreement over whether NFP can be used with a contraceptive mentality. It is another judgement. You really can not understand a couple’s decision to avoid conception or all the factors that go into that.

Perhaps you just came to post your general observations and opinions based on your experience with people who do not agree with the church’s teaching. That is fine. I just want to encourage you not to make blanket assumptions about people who use ABC. Especially if you are trying to evangelize them. I know there is an overwhelming need in this community to correct and chastise.

Here is what I mean by engaging someone:

Instead of making assumptions about their inability to accept sacrifice and suffering, ask them how they have experienced this and how are they currently experiencing this? Is it possible for a couple to be so heavily burdened that they crack and are not able to care for the children they have or that it leads to deterioration of their marriage? (Yes, the answer is yes.) Ask them how they prioritize their intimate relationship instead of assuming they don’t have to. Ask them how they experience team work in their marriage and intimate life. Instead of assuming they don’t have to use teamwork.

I really hope that helps you to understand a bit more where someone in my position is coming from. I hope it helps you as you continue your work with other couples.
 
I’m sorry guys, I still don’t see the difference between NFP and ABC, both are preventing pregnancies (or hoping to). Some people on other threads have made it sound like ABC turns it into “just” sex, but when an NFP instructor is almost talking about “putting it in the diary” (for non fertile times) that’s even worse! You can’t schedule sex.

If it really is about trusting God, then maybe NFP is wrong too? What about those people who it’s danger to get pregnant…they will never have children so NFP in that case is never going to be procreative? Whys this right and ABC wrong? Yes I know you should be “open” and trust in God but if it is really about Gods will, why do people who are in danger avoid pregnancy with NFP, surely God would not allow it to happen unless it’s his will?

But I can’t see anyone recommending to a woman in danger to “trust God” and forgo NFP, ABC etc. 🤷 (and nor should they!)
This is off-topic. Can I request that we not debate the “rights and wrongs” on this thread as many other threads have done so and many more will. I’m happy to respond to this if posted in a new thread.
 
Yes, we felt it was damaging to our marriage. We spent 10 years working to get NFP right, and I was pregnant 10 times during that decade. We obviously never got it right, despite giving it our level best, working closely with practitioners, and experiencing prolonged periods of abstinence.

We are not cut out for years of abstinence. I am a weak human being and not a saint. I know a lot of couples practicing NFP and experiencing long periods of abstinence, and it has not served them well in their marriage relationship.

No, I am not prepared to say the Church is wrong on this subject. I love the concept of NFP and believe it is an ideal worth at least trying to aspire to. It’s just an ideal we were not able to live up to, despite giving it our honest best.

We confessed our sin and hope for the God’s mercy on Judgment Day.

Have a strong, happy marriage to raise our children within was extremely important to me, even more so because I came from a broken family. Today our marriage is far less stressful, and we are closer than ever. I am not a perfect parent, by any stretch of the imagination, but I consider our happy marriage to be one of the best gifts we can give our six living children.

Like others have mentioned, this is very much a don’t-ask/don’t tell kind of situation with family, friends, and fellow churchgoers. And thankfully, with our large family, nobody feels the need to inquire too far into our situation.
 
Again it is the assumptions made about couples who use ABC that I find incorrect. When I see the assumptions it does not open doors for dialogue. It makes me wonder if people use assumptions to avoid digging deeper and finding out they need to admit that the views they hold in their mind are not true. I admit I lose patience when I see all the assumptions made without even knowing the details or characteristics of another couple’s marriage.
Perhaps your experience is with a Catholic parish or community that is elitist and judgemental and that’s colouring your opinion about us all?

I’m nearly past my fertile years but in all the years of mothering through the Catholic system, 99% of the friends and acquaintances I have made, use ABC. I’ve always been the lone fish in this fish bowl of NFP. My experience is that I’m seen as excessively submissive to the Church teaching and missing the joys of sexual freedom because of it. No one has ever said to me, as you have, that I’m arrogant and have an agenda. I’ve spoken of NFP when I’ve been asked about it in general conversation but my perspective is seen as a novelty.

I don’t really know why every person I’ve met uses contraception? The majority began using it before marriage, to begin their sexual lives. They’ve known no other way and NFP seems too scary and out there an idea in this world that makes it all so much ‘easier’. That’s a hallmark of the ‘contraceptive mentality’… fear of nfp… and the massively lucrative contraceptives industry is heavily invested and making people fear their fertility. We have to be aware of all the players in this ABC game and how they work with their own devious agendas to undermine the Church’s relevance to their market base.
 
With over 20 years of walking closely with couples who use NFP I too have conclusions I have drawn based on that experience. However, I would not make all or nothing comments about them. Part of my reason for posting here is that my conscience is bothered by my inability to be honest in the church I find my home. I have no issue with my transparency with Almighty God who knows our deepest motivations and sins. I feel a lack of authenticity and I am seeking out as to how this is going to unfold for me as I continue along in the church. Commenting anonymously tests the waters. At present, it has reminded me to stick with the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. As honesty does not really bring about anything productive. In some communities in brings about blacklisting, shunning and gossip. Who wants to deal with that? Not to mention all the judgment. This particular issue has become the identifying mark for who is a true Catholic or not. I find that remarkable given the depth of all the other things the church teaches like taking the plank out of your own eye before casting judgement, the beatitudes and all the parables of the gospels.
It sounds like you’ve got genuine conditions perhaps, if you’ve practiced nfp for over 20 years with that kind of difficulty, but could you be approaching your situation in the wrong way?

One of the things that I have always been aware of though is that there are genuine medical reasons for some people to need contraception and that will affect their culpability on judgement day but that, like all treatises on human behaviour is addressed in a different category pertaining to conscience decisions. It isn’t addressed as an alternative to the prohibition on contraception relating to personal decision.

I remember a show on telly about 25 or 30 years ago after I was married but before I had children that had stimulated great debate in Catholic circles here. It was called LA Law about a law firm and the cases it defended. This one episode was about a woman who was using contraception and she had gone to a Priest to get absolution so that she could keep using it with a free conscience and the Priest had denied absolution. She took him to court to force him to do it. If I remember rightly, the court ordered him to give her absolution because he was deemed to have no right to refuse his services to his customer so to speak. The last shot was of them entering into the confessional. The episode highlighted a real misconception that Catholics can have about the role of the Church and the nature of the sacraments.

The Church animated by the Holy Spirit, teaches us a way through the deceptions and illusions that the fallen world perpetrates. Life is like walking through the laneways of a crazy fairground with vendors on either side of you pulling for your loyalty and money. It gives you a shining beacon of truth to walk towards and she, apart from all other denominations, is uncompromising on that truth.

There is always hardship in everyone’s life and it’s not appropriate for any of us to assume and judge what’s going on for another person, but it’s a worse case scenario that to resolve issues for another we are called to water down the Church teaching and make her irrelevant to a person. That’s the way the Protestant conferences went in the 1930s and made themselves completely irrelevant on the subject of artificial birth control to their parishners. Most Protestants believe their Church accepts ABC as neutrally moral. That isn’t actually true, but they watered down the theology and chose to evangelise without reference to many sexual related issues.

The answer is to guide that person to the people that can help with expertise (confessors/nfp instructors or Catholic family orgs) in whatever the problem he/she is facing. That’s the safest road to true discernment. All the NFP instructors I met in my NFP journey were always so involved and passionate about helping. There never seemed to be a problem they didn’t have an answer for. When I first began charting 26 years ago my husband was involved and interested but we decided to stick with the 4 children we had had about 20 years ago and after a while of charting, I just became so familiar with my body, my cycle and our routine, that I did it all without charting. After getting to know your body, its ups and downs, signs and messages… your fertility becomes a strong part of your identity. An odd month here and there I didn’t ovulate at all and that made for a long wait, but it was doable. If I had got pregnant meh… that would have been a pain because I’m not the lovely natural earth mothers some of my friends were… but that’s Gods call. I’m up for a challenge. Once you have a child, other concerns seems to fade in importance anyway.

One of my friends was always saying that nfp was not natural. That not having sexual freedom was not natural. But I genuinely didn’t see it that way. I’ve always seen the fertility cycle as the natural state… not the sexual frequency. When God made Adam and Eve on that 6th day, He said to them “Go forth and multiply”, so I figure He had endowed them with fertility in their perfect state. It was only after they had sinned that He condemned Eve with a “desire for her husband” and painful childbirth. So that seems to suggest the whole desire for sex is a curse of our sinful natures, not an aspect of our perfect state of fertility. Different people perceive natural in different ways, but the Church conforms to the fundamentals of natural law and divine revelation. She can’t compromise on that without leading her flock astray from the path.
 
In another thread, a poster remarked that he and his wife found NFP damaged their marriage. That OP also remarked that ABC (artificial birth control) was a matter on which he and his wife disagreed with Church teaching.

I would be interested to understand, particularly from those who have abandoned NFP, whether they felt similarly to that poster, that is, that using NFP:
  • felt a bit like being celibate despite being married?
  • caused and damage to their marriage?
Some will have abandoned NFP and replaced it with artificial birth control. **If **that’s your case (and assuming you’re Catholic), then do you believe the Church has got the teaching wrong, or is it simply not a teaching you can adopt?

See here for the first response to this question.
Yes, NFP hurt my marraige. Yes we abandoned it.

Now let me explain. When we married we used ABC. As our faith and marriage grew in holiness we decided against ABC. We switched to NFP. Now we have left NFP and use nothing at all.

ABC. Was damaging to our marriage. And our souls. It led to all the things you would think it would. We used each other.

NFP was a struggle. Between the sex police and my wife and I not agreeing about timing for more children and stressing all the time. It was the single biggest problem we had. We used several methods and even used overlapping things such as “lady comp” and a fertility watch and a saliva microscope.

Once we let go of the idea that we MUST try to control timing, and number of children to fit what we wanted we realized that our reasons for “spacing” were not “serious” just" or loving. It took three kids to understand this. Our fourth was our time when we abandoned NFP. Our marriage and sex life has never been better.
Yes, every month is an adventure, but I love our lives without all the stress!
 
This is the goal of NFP instructors - to help the couple listen to the Holy Spirit and make decisions accordingly.
The ABC couple does schedule and use teamwork in their marriage, but not necessarily to space pregnancy - for contraception does not lean on this fact.

Knowledge of fertility is never a sin.
 
I don’t really know why every person I’ve met uses contraception? The majority began using it before marriage, to begin their sexual lives. They’ve known no other way and NFP seems too scary and out there an idea in this world that makes it all so much ‘easier’. That’s a hallmark of the ‘contraceptive mentality’… fear of nfp… and the massively lucrative contraceptives industry is heavily invested and making people fear their fertility. We have to be aware of all the players in this ABC game and how they work with their own devious agendas to undermine the Church’s relevance to their market base.
And yet one could also talk about the cottage industry that has sprung up around being NFP instructors and charting assistants. I find it somewhat suspicious that many of the people who are the biggest promoters of NFP are also instructors.
 
Many donate their help as a ministry - it does take money to train properly and there is nothing wrong about accepting a donation to be able to teach accurately.
 
A common discussion with instructors is the lack of anyone to teach - if called to the ministry you will be like the Maytag repairman!
 
I just wanted to point out that Rau, the OP, was asking questions in order to hear from and LISTEN TO those people who are trying to be faithful Catholics but who have abandoned NFP because it was hurting their marriage. He specifically wanted to hear from people who have chosen ABC over NFP, as well. But his questions had to do with LEARNING from people what damage NFP challenges caused to their marriage.

This is NOT an appropriate place to continue to try to correct or admonish these people. They KNOW the Church’s teachings on this. I, for one, would really like for his thread to not be derailed. I think the honest responses are worth listening to and trying to understand. Who knows what challenges we all might end up facing in our own marriages? Isn’t it good to listen with an open heart and open mind to understand people where they are right now instead of closing ourselves off and assuming unkind things about them and using talking points or catechism references? That would probably be better for another thread.
sigh Thank you for mommamaree. That is what I was hoping for in this thread. It did get derailed. I find the same pontificating tiresome. I want to assure everyone I have read EVERY bit of the catechism and what it teaches about sexuality. I thought I made that clear. I have read it and disagree with it and the people that wrote it. I know listening may have been too much to ask with the temptation to chastise and admonish right at your finger tips. Unfortunately, the movement does not have too many listeners. However, listening is the key. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and changes hearts. Give the Holy Spirit some room to move.
 
In another thread, a poster remarked that he and his wife found NFP damaged their marriage. That OP also remarked that ABC (artificial birth control) was a matter on which he and his wife disagreed with Church teaching.

I would be interested to understand, particularly from those who have abandoned NFP, whether they felt similarly to that poster, that is, that using NFP:
  • felt a bit like being celibate despite being married?
  • caused and damage to their marriage?
Some will have abandoned NFP and replaced it with artificial birth control. **If **that’s your case (and assuming you’re Catholic), then do you believe the Church has got the teaching wrong, or is it simply not a teaching you can adopt?

See here for the first response to this question.
I don’t think this thread has gotten off track

The op clearly wanted to hear from those who have abandoned NFP. There are two questions in this post regarding that. Then the OP says SOME will have abandoned it in favor of ABC, and there are separate questions there. 1) Is the CHURCH in the wrong? Or Do you feel like the Church is correct and YOU are in the wrong?

So this thread can be for people like me who have abandoned it. (The first two questions )but not abandoned it for ABC. Or the second part leave debate open in this thread for why and if the Church should teach NFP is wrong.

Sounds like a fair game free for all to me in this thread.🤷 Nothing off topic at all if you ask me.
 
sigh Thank you for mommamaree. That is what I was hoping for in this thread. It did get derailed. I find the same pontificating tiresome. I want to assure everyone I have read EVERY bit of the catechism and what it teaches about sexuality. I thought I made that clear. I have read it and disagree with it and the people that wrote it. I know listening may have been too much to ask with the temptation to chastise and admonish right at your finger tips. Unfortunately, the movement does not have too many listeners. However, listening is the key. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts and changes hearts. Give the Holy Spirit some room to move.
I have two questions.

What specifically do you disagree with? You said you read it and disagree with it. Ok. Fair enough. Now to serve the purpose of this thread what do you disagree with and why?

And the second question is what do you mean by and the “people who wrote it” Are you meaning the entire Church, just the people who wrote the CCC? The Holy Spirit? Who do you disagree with and why?
 
I have two questions.

What specifically do you disagree with? You said you read it and disagree with it. Ok. Fair enough. Now to serve the purpose of this thread what do you disagree with and why?

And the second question is what do you mean by and the “people who wrote it” Are you meaning the entire Church, just the people who wrote the CCC? The Holy Spirit? Who do you disagree with and why?
No thanks, Hoosier Daddy, I am not interested in further discussion. The purpose of this thread for me was to answer the question. I know for sure there is nothing productive that will come out of answering your questions. I would much rather throw myself into a den of lions. They would surely be more willing to listen. I don’t want to invest the time and energy into answering your questions to then listen to all the pontificating that will follow. I already know all the responses.

The bottom line is NFP was damaging to my marriage. We are not in a position to welcome more children into the world. Although since we still have sex we understand the small chance we have of getting pregnant and accept that. It is a much smaller chance than if we continued to use NFP. Celibacy is not healthy for my marriage. I know that NFP is damaging to many marriages. Some couples are honest about and it some are not. Some choose intellectual dissent but still obey. I don’t. My marriage is a gift and I am so grateful for the unity and health in it. I am grateful that I am well enough to care for the children I have and love my husband. We are very much open to life and God is very much a part of our union. That is all I want to say.
 
I think the reason why married couples abandon NFP is because of the basic reasoning behind why artificial contraception is considered sinful. All married sexual activity must be both unitive and ordered towards procreation. The Church extrapolated this from its understanding of Natural Law.

I think the problem is that this is not congruent with most of our human experiences. Most married couples recognize how important sex and intimacy is for the health of their marriage and their personal well being. Many couples are able to enjoy married sex while using ABC and it does not damage their marriage. If you take that away and add NFP you introduce fear into this aspect of the relationship. (Note that I’m not implying anyone regrets having their children.)

I realize that a penis is designed to fit into a vagina so therefore all intercourse must be ordered towards procreation. This Natural Law is also supposed to be written on our hearts and it just doesn’t seem to be in this situation. In people’s experience this connection does not resonate. If you tell a married couple that they can’t have this freedom for intimacy in their relationship when they know its available and that the reason is because of this interpretation of Natural Law not very many are going to be convinced.

Hope that is not too much of a tangent.
 
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