Abandoning NFP - damaging the Marriage?

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Ha ha. I’ve never used contraception in my life. I’m sure that there are many here (Americans) who think that because I only have 3 kids and haven’t been pregnant for 20 fertile years, that I have a contraceptive mentality. I can assure you that in the Australian Catholic environment we don’t even play that conjugally competitive game. It’s bizarre to watch.
So ignore them and don’t do to others (make assumptions) what they do to you. It’s just as bizarre for me for you to say I’m hostile to NFP, start talking about welfare and neglected kids and accuse the other lady of having problems with smaller families.
 
… I do not think family size has anything at all to do with responsible parenting. This is another thing people throw around quite often that has nothing at all to do with the debate at all. Couples may never use either ABC or NFP and only have one (or none). Likewise a couple who uses ABC may have 12 kids or NFP and have 6 kids. Family size has nothing to do with this
I understand that one’s actual family size may not reflect the attention the parents gave to “responsible parenting” - as you say, the parents may have decided they would stop/pause children at some point, but unexpected things happened!

But I would expect that responsible parenting involves giving conscious consideration to the appropriate number of children given family circumstances, capacity, etc.
 
I’m beginning to think longingsoul has a guilty conscience. You know how cheats get anxious and start pointing the finger at their partner? She is throwing so many false accusations and assumptions out there, I’m beginning to wonder if she either uses NFP for selfish reasons or is using ABC.
That remark is a personal attack and uncalled for. The entire thread has been conducted respectfully until this.
 
That remark is a personal attack and uncalled for. The entire thread has been conducted respectfully until this.
Not attacking just assuming, like she was doing…no difference.
 
That remark is a personal attack and uncalled for. The entire thread has been conducted respectfully until this.
Hmmm one poster got banned while posting in this thread? Not sure I’d say it’s been completely respectful. A lot of assumptions and false accusations flying around.
 
Hmmm one poster got banned while posting in this thread? Not sure I’d say it’s been completely respectful. A lot of assumptions and false accusations flying around.
266 posts so far and one or two disrespectful. Pretty good in my experience.
 
266 posts so far and one or two disrespectful. Pretty good in my experience.
Yes suppose so, but unfortunately I give what I get…as most people don’t like having done to them what they do to others and it’s the only way to show them.

They make false accusations & assumptions, I do the same to them (and they were mild)
 
I understand what you are saying. Yes, one could decide to engage in sexual activity other than intercourse during fertile times, however I would have thought that is more akin to ABC. I thought it was widely understood that NFP involves abstention, not alternatives to intercourse?
That’s why I think it is important to distinguish between the *methods used *and the overall term NFP. In the same way, people can take the birth control pill for the improvement of their gynocological health but we wouldn’t say she is using contraception per se. She is using the pill for health reasons. Pope Benedict in the past made a comment about male prostitutes using condoms to prevent passing on AIDS and indicated that this act could be the first steps in recognising true human dignity. In that case the method… condoms… is not contraception. NFP and contraception are two blanket terms that indicate the mentality that surrounds the practice.

The mixing up of terms is making it difficult to be clear about where the real error lies. We don’t use NFP. We practice NFP. We use methods to identify fertility and if we practice abstinence to avoid pregnancy or go for it to achieve pregnancy we are in keeping with Gods plan for human sexuality.

Neither of these choices is a contraceptive choice.
 
That’s why I think it is important to distinguish between the *methods used *and the overall term NFP. In the same way, people can take the birth control pill for the improvement of their gynocological health but we wouldn’t say she is using contraception per se. She is using the pill for health reasons. Pope Benedict in the past made a comment about male prostitutes using condoms to prevent passing on AIDS and indicated that this act could be the first steps in recognising true human dignity. In that case the method… condoms… is not contraception. NFP and contraception are two blanket terms that indicate the mentality that surrounds the practice.

The mixing up of terms is making it difficult to be clear about where the real error lies. We don’t use NFP. We practice NFP. We use methods to identify fertility and if we practice abstinence to avoid pregnancy or go for it to achieve pregnancy we are in keeping with Gods plan for human sexuality.

Neither of these choices is a contraceptive choice.
I think you are complicating things…

ABC is wrong
NFP is right as long as if you are spacing children it’s for just reasons.

It really doesn’t matter if someone wants to say they use NFP. You are arguing about things and definitions the church doesn’t even mention!
 
Yes suppose so, but unfortunately I give what I get.…as most people don’t like having done to them what they do to others and it’s the only way to show them.

They make false accusations & assumptions, I do the same to them (and they were mild)
Actually, there is another way. An appropriate way.

If you have a problem with a post or poster, if they have broken the rules in any way, report them.

We do not play tit for tat here.
 
Actually, there is another way. An appropriate way.

If you have a problem with a post or poster, if they have broken the rules in any way, report them.

We do not play tit for tat here.
It’s not tit for tat, it’s proving a point, if you have a problem with my post, report me then. Do as you say. It really doesn’t worry me. I have a wonderful life beyond the forums, I speak my mind, don’t let anyone think they are better than me and if I’m banned so be it. I’ve pretty much decided that I probably won’t become catholic as I don’t believe the church teaches people how to be Christian. There are of course other reasons, but the bible teaches us to test a tree by its fruit and there are a lot of bad fruit here.

anyway this has got naught to do with NFP.
 
I prayer for you - I know you are an inspiration to others by your quiet witness.
Peace
Thank you for your prayers. May God bless you and your family on your journey through life. My hope is that the little nibbling that ate away at my soul for years might begin nibbling at someone else too.
I have been amazed with your posts. Thank you and I feel the same way you do. We abandoned NFP as well. Many of our friends do not understand. They think we are crazy.

FYI BXVI was one of THREE children. He had a sister as well.
I Highly recommend his brother’s book. " My Bother the Pope" It describes so many things. I understand more the Nazi germany upbringing and the resignation so much more after reading it.
Yes, this concept is so foreign in modern society that most can not comprehend. Planned Parenthood has corrupted the meaning of responsible parenthood to a degree that even the most pro life among us no longer understand what is really meant by it.

And I stand corrected about Pope Benedict. I will look for his book. Your family is in my prayers. Please pray for mine.
"To sum up this thread…
  1. NFP (as in fertility methods) doesn’t suit everyone
  2. The church doesn’t expect you to use NFP the whole time
  3. ABC is wrong
  4. NFP may be used for just reasons to space children
  5. spouses should pray and reevaluate each month to determine if they have just reasons to not have a child
  6. some people need to speak less about their sex lives
  7. some people need to concentrate more on their own families and less on others where they may not understand or know the full story
  8. not sure if complete abstinence long term is approved or not? Short periods are ok?
  9. the church doesn’t specify “just reasons”
  10. the number of kids you have isn’t a competition
  11. just because people have abandoned NFP doesn’t mean they have turned to ABC or were doing it wrong etc
  12. just because I don’t currently accept teachings on ABC, doesn’t mean I’m hostile to NFP
  13. NFP appears to have several definitions depending on person. Some refer to a blanket term, some refer to specific method.
Have I missed anything?"

Great list! I’d also suggest including:
  1. Just because a couple has used ABC doesn’t mean they don’t accept Church teaching on it. If we all followed Church teaching on everything, none of us would be sinners. Not following does not mean not agreeing.
  2. Assumptions and generalizations by either side about the other side usually accomplish nothing and tend to alienate (i.e. An ABCer stating something along the lines of “all NFP users are brainwashed” or an NFPer stating “All ABCers are sex addicts using either other as objects.”) Not only is it dehumanizing, it immediately discredits a person with the other side, and any chance of anybody listening to each other goes right down the drain.
I believe my suggested #15 is what Pope Francis is trying to get at. You can’t evangelize if you don’t show genuine respect for a person as a human person and listen to their actual lived experiences versus telling them what you think they should be experiencing or worse, what you are sure they are experiencing but just aren’t smart enough to realize it yet(talk about a turnoff!).
You added extremely important points! I believe I may have turned to ABC if celibacy did not work for us as a couple. A healthy marriage is of utmost importance when there are children to raise. That to is a big part of responsible parenthood. God bless your family as well. I wish you all the best.
That should be none of your concern.
For long term issues, couples would not have to revisit this each month.
Yes, I have read in previous threads about your health issues. You are suffering through things that only a miracle could change. Please take care of yourself. I’ve prayed for you and will continue to do so.
 
I’d agree with maryjk that revisiting the issue monthly is not necessary when it’s a permanent condition and nothing has changed for the better. For instance, I often look at this chart, which has the risk of chromosonal abnormalities for mothers of different ages:

php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php?title=Genetic_risk_maternal_age

At my age (edging toward 39), I now have probably somewhere between a 1 in 102 and 1 in 83 chance of having a baby with a chromosonal abnormality (and a number of them are fatal). Within 5 years, there will be a 1 in 33 chance, and it just accelerates from there, reaching 1 in 8 at 49. Meanwhile the risk of miscarriage is shooting up. Here’s another chart, showing how as age increases, the chance of a live baby decreases to almost nothing and the chance of miscarriage shoots up to almost certainty:

geneticsandfertility.com/maternal-age-reproduction/

These are very sobering facts, and the numbers only get worse throughout the years of fertility.

While my husband and I will hopefully joyfully receive whatever babies might come our way, disabled or not, and be good sports about it, a risk of 1 in 102 is already well outside our comfort zone. Other people will feel differently (for instance people who haven’t managed to have any children yet at our age), but there’s a reason why women over 35 get special handling in the obstetric world–it is much riskier for both mother and baby.
 
Although it’s true that NFP is not required, I think there are strong prudential reasons for couples to go into marriage well-versed in NFP and with several months of charts in hand.

The problem I often see on these forums is that there is a subgroup of couples who go into marriage all blazing with idealism and have a bunch of tightly spaced children and then belatedly realize (generally somewhere between kid 4 and kid 6) that a) the kids are driving them crazy and b) mom has some sort of huge, life-threatening medical issue (usually four c-sections–that seems to be the point of no return for a lot of women) and the couple has absolutely no idea how to go about practicing NFP, because they have no previous record of success with NFP and/or breastfeeding is messing things up. And that is how sterilizations happen in couples that were trying to be faithful. (This would be particularly important in a mixed marriage or in a family where one spouse is less on board–on the forum we hear a lot of stories where a spouse snapped and got sterilized against the wishes of the spouse who is writing in.)

I believe very strongly in trying to build in a little wiggle room and margin for error, particularly in the case of c-sections, where you can see the problem coming miles away. I would advise very conservative NFP starting after the second c-section. In these cases, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

There’s a quote in Luke where Jesus says, “For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, `This man began to build, and was not able to finish.’” I think that has a lot of application to the NFP discussion.
 
I’m a relatively new husband, and my wife and I are practicing NFP. To be perfectly honest, it has been rather difficult for us, as we want to wait to have children for another year and a half. We have travel arrangements that have to be respected before we will feel comfortable bringing a child into our family (we live in Canada, and her family is having a reunion in India, and we’re trying very hard to be frugal in order to pay for the trip, so having a child now would very much complicate matters).

I work in shifts, and I’m out of town a week at a time every other week. Essentially, based on the timing, I’m generally home during her unavailable days, and as she works full-time as well, in a fairly stressful environment, on the rare available days that we have, she’s too tired to want to engage in intercourse.

So it has been difficult. However, for neither of us is contraception an option. We both faithfully adhere to the authority of the Magesterium, knowing it to be correct. But it has been difficult, and I fully expect it to continue to be so. We’ve had fights that I can say certainly derived from this. Not that we fought about it specifically, but that the frustrations that we’ve been feeling were the source of the fights.

So, in this sense you could say that NFP has been damaging to our marriage. However, I would feel a strong urge to disagree.

What is good and right and just does not damage. It edifies, because God Himself is the source of what is good and right and just. The Church teaches that NFP is morally acceptible. Therefore, I must look to something else to determine what is causing damage in our relationship.

I have to be honest with myself and say that I am. Please understand that I do not intend to imply or insinuate that the following is true of anyone besides myself. I am simply sharing my story and my thoughts about myself and my relationship.

For many years, starting in my early youth, I have struggled with impurity. By many years I don’t mean any small token. I mean a good twenty years. When you’ve struggled with a problem like this for so long, you come to recognize things that perhaps you may not otherwise.

Firstly, my view of women was disordered. Throughout my teen years and into my early twenties, I was always shy around women whom I found attractive. This effect lingeres to this day, but not so much as it was. You might think this is normal, and perhaps it is in the sense that it’s common, but it is not in the sense of it being natural. I understand this to be a direct result of my struggle with purity. I didn’t think about it in these terms then, but I understand it now. My timidity was derived in a feeling of inadequacy relating to sex, which acted as a lens in my interactions with attractive women. A healthy vision would have had me treat attractive women like anyone else, like any brother or sister in Christ. But my vision was tainted by impurity.

In my marriage, I see that the effects are still active, but in relation specifically to sexuality. In our normal, day to day interactions, I treat her as well as I can, as a loving husband, not always successful, but trying. Yet, early on, when it came to sex, I was often forceful or manipulative. Not that I forced myself onto her. I didn’t. Rather, I was insistent.

I no longer am, and I attribute this in large part to NFP, as well as to serious examinations of myself and my marriage and what a loving husband ought to look like. Having been forced to respect her boundaries, to respect our own wishes for our family, and practice abstinence when we need to, I have grown very much as a person, as a man, and as a husband.

Part of this growth, though, has involved recognizing external triggers that increase our sexual desires. By this, I mean sexually suggestive ads at malls, on tv, in magazines, or unexpected love scenes in shows or movies, or even books. Our environment is very highly sexualized, and that makes practicing NFP much more difficult than it should. Yes, there is a natural desire between a husband and a wife, but I think perhaps in the past it may have been easier to practice abstinence than it is today.

The ideal that I’m striving for is to be able to see my wife firstly as a sister in Christ, a daughter of God, and secondly as my wife. In the end, Christ tells us there is no marriage in heaven, so with an eschatological vision, my wife is firstly and foremostly my sister in Christ, and that should be my first treatment of her. She is my wife also, but secondarily, and I hope to come to the point when our sexual choices are made as responsible mutual decisions, and not from irrational passions. That doesn’t mean there can’t be room for spontaneity, just that the source of that spontaneity isn’t the fact that I’m all hot and bothered and can’t help myself.

Believe me when I say that I understand the desire to use ABC. For me, it would be a freedom to indulge. But having come as far as I have, I couldn’t countenance that anymore. I couldn’t treat my wife that way anymore. I accept the fact that I have to abstain. I’ve come to realize that just as a celibate priest is an image of the eschatological man, so too is a celibate husband an image of the eschatological man. But only insofar as my disposition about it is proper. I must be willing and accepting, placing God and my wife ahead of my own desires, for this is the proper order of things. Mayhap, one day, I might be counted among the blessed married saints who practiced perpetual celibacy. But only if it be God’s will, and my wife’s. ;)😛

God bless.
 
I’m a relatively new husband, and my wife and I are practicing NFP. To be perfectly honest, it has been rather difficult for us, as we want to wait to have children for another year and a half. We have travel arrangements that have to be respected before we will feel comfortable bringing a child into our family (we live in Canada, and her family is having a reunion in India, and we’re trying very hard to be frugal in order to pay for the trip, so having a child now would very much complicate matters).

I work in shifts, and I’m out of town a week at a time every other week. Essentially, based on the timing, I’m generally home during her unavailable days, and as she works full-time as well, in a fairly stressful environment, on the rare available days that we have, she’s too tired to want to engage in intercourse.

So it has been difficult. However, for neither of us is contraception an option. We both faithfully adhere to the authority of the Magesterium, knowing it to be correct. But it has been difficult, and I fully expect it to continue to be so. We’ve had fights that I can say certainly derived from this. Not that we fought about it specifically, but that the frustrations that we’ve been feeling were the source of the fights.

So, in this sense you could say that NFP has been damaging to our marriage. However, I would feel a strong urge to disagree.

What is good and right and just does not damage. It edifies, because God Himself is the source of what is good and right and just. The Church teaches that NFP is morally acceptible. Therefore, I must look to something else to determine what is causing damage in our relationship.

I have to be honest with myself and say that I am. Please understand that I do not intend to imply or insinuate that the following is true of anyone besides myself. I am simply sharing my story and my thoughts about myself and my relationship.

For many years, starting in my early youth, I have struggled with impurity. By many years I don’t mean any small token. I mean a good twenty years. When you’ve struggled with a problem like this for so long, you come to recognize things that perhaps you may not otherwise.

Firstly, my view of women was disordered. Throughout my teen years and into my early twenties, I was always shy around women whom I found attractive. This effect lingeres to this day, but not so much as it was. You might think this is normal, and perhaps it is in the sense that it’s common, but it is not in the sense of it being natural. I understand this to be a direct result of my struggle with purity. I didn’t think about it in these terms then, but I understand it now. My timidity was derived in a feeling of inadequacy relating to sex, which acted as a lens in my interactions with attractive women. A healthy vision would have had me treat attractive women like anyone else, as a brother or sister in Christ. But my vision was tainted by impurity.

In my marriage, I see that the effects are still active, but in relation specifically to sexuality. In our normal, day to day interactions, I treat her as well as I can, as a loving husband, not always successful, but trying. Yet, early on, when it came to sex, I was often forceful or manipulative. Not that I forced myself onto her. I didn’t. Rather, I was insistent.

I no longer am, and I attribute this in large part to NFP, as well as to serious examinations of myself and my marriage and what a loving husband ought to look like. Having been forced to respect her boundaries, to respect our own wishes for our family, and practice abstinence when we need to, I have grown very much as a person, as a man, and as a husband.

Part of this growth, though, has involved recognizing external triggers that increase our sexual desires. By this, I mean sexually suggestive ads at malls, on tv, in magazines, or unexpected love scenes in shows or movies, or even books. Our environment is very highly sexualized, and that makes practicing NFP much more difficult than it should. Yes, there is a natural desire between a husband and a wife, but I think perhaps in the past it may have been easier to practice abstinence than it is today.

The ideal that I’m striving for is to be able to see my wife firstly as a sister in Christ, a daughter of God, and secondly as my wife. In the end, Christ tells us there is no marriage in heaven, so with an eschatological vision, my wife is firstly and foremostly my sister in Christ, and that should be my first treatment of her. She is my wife also, but secondarily, and I hope to come to the point when our sexual choices are made as responsible mutual decisions, and not from irrational passions. That doesn’t mean there can’t be room for spontaneity, just that the source of that spontaneity isn’t the fact that I’m all hot and bothered and can’t help myself.

Believe me when I say that I understand the desire to use ABC. For me, it would be a freedom to indulge. But having come as far as I have, I couldn’t countenance that anymore. I couldn’t treat my wife that way anymore. I accept the fact that I have to abstain. I’ve come to realize that just as a celibate priest is an image of the eschatological man, so too is a celibate husband an image of the eschatological man. But only insofar as my disposition about it is proper. I must be willing and accepting, placing God and my wife ahead of my own desires, for this is the proper order of things. Mayhap, one day, I might be counted among the blessed married saints who practiced perpetual celibacy. But only if it be God’s will, and my wife’s. ;)😛

God bless.
 
“The problem I often see on these forums is that there is a subgroup of couples who go into marriage all blazing with idealism”

Yes, I’d say we fit this description fairly well. I did start charting several months before marriage, but it was basically just from a book somebody had given me (these were the days before internet), and honestly, I just didn’t care all that much. So when my signs were a mess, and it was a pain to wake up at the same time every day (college girl at the time–what college kid wants to set the alarm clock every day to take a temp? especially given that I am a horrible sleeper and never could get back to sleep), it was way too much bother. I did continue to chart about one month into marriage (we were not abstaining during the fertile time, however, because we did not care about avoiding pregnancy–we were only charting because we figured we’d better know how in case the need ever came up) but the getting up every day to take a temp that always ended up all over the chart (literally!) anyway was far too much of a hassle. I still remember the glee I felt the day we tossed the thermometer and chart.

I didn’t get pregnant for almost a year. I have never been particularly maternal and could probably have been quite happy childless (don’t get me wrong–love my kids dearly and am so glad to have them, but I didn’t need to have them to feel personally fulfilled in any way), so it was no skin off my nose. Everybody else we knew was getting pregnant on their honeymoon, or 1-2 months into marriage, tops, so I started to believe I was subfertile, which was okay by me. I just figured God knew how non-maternal I was.

It wasn’t until I started getting pregnant and couldn’t stop that we got serious about NFP, worked with CCL counselors until that was a bust, and then we moved to Creighton and tried that, again working with practitioners for years, but during that same time period I was pregnant 10 times, had 6 live births, and breastfed all six of them. Add that to the fact I do have truly very hard to read fertility signs that don’t fit in with the norm (not to mention a serious chronic illness I was diagnosed with around the age of 30), and you’ve pretty much got an NFP disaster on your hands.

But truthfully, I don’t know that anybody could have motivated us to get more serious about NFP prior to marriage. We just didn’t care that much about it and figured that God wouldn’t send us more than I could handle. We were young and ideal—and I don’t regret being young and ideal when I was in my early 20s.

Anyway, it’s all water under the bridge now. But if I had to do it over again, and if I am totally honest with myself, I’d probably do the exact same thing regarding NFP prior to and in early marriage. There just wasn’t enough motivation to keep up with it (and yes, my difficult signs may have had something to do with it—it was a lot of work, and the charts were still pretty much gobbledy-gook, and we were perfectly fine with the idea of pregnancy). It’s hard to stick with something that is real bother, doesn’t produce any understandable results, and is something about which you aren’t highly motivated in the first place.
 
I’m a relatively new husband, and my wife and I are practicing NFP. To be perfectly honest, it has been rather difficult for us, as we want to wait to have children for another year and a half. We have travel arrangements that have to be respected before we will feel comfortable bringing a child into our family (we live in Canada, and her family is having a reunion in India, and we’re trying very hard to be frugal in order to pay for the trip, so having a child now would very much complicate matters).

I work in shifts, and I’m out of town a week at a time every other week. Essentially, based on the timing, I’m generally home during her unavailable days, and as she works full-time as well, in a fairly stressful environment, on the rare available days that we have, she’s too tired to want to engage in intercourse.

So it has been difficult. However, for neither of us is contraception an option. We both faithfully adhere to the authority of the Magesterium, knowing it to be correct. But it has been difficult, and I fully expect it to continue to be so. We’ve had fights that I can say certainly derived from this. Not that we fought about it specifically, but that the frustrations that we’ve been feeling were the source of the fights.

So, in this sense you could say that NFP has been damaging to our marriage. However, I would feel a strong urge to disagree.

What is good and right and just does not damage. It edifies, because God Himself is the source of what is good and right and just. The Church teaches that NFP is morally acceptible. Therefore, I must look to something else to determine what is causing damage in our relationship.

I have to be honest with myself and say that I am. Please understand that I do not intend to imply or insinuate that the following is true of anyone besides myself. I am simply sharing my story and my thoughts about myself and my relationship.

For many years, starting in my early youth, I have struggled with impurity. By many years I don’t mean any small token. I mean a good twenty years. When you’ve struggled with a problem like this for so long, you come to recognize things that perhaps you may not otherwise.

Firstly, my view of women was disordered. Throughout my teen years and into my early twenties, I was always shy around women whom I found attractive. This effect lingeres to this day, but not so much as it was. You might think this is normal, and perhaps it is in the sense that it’s common, but it is not in the sense of it being natural. I understand this to be a direct result of my struggle with purity. I didn’t think about it in these terms then, but I understand it now. My timidity was derived in a feeling of inadequacy relating to sex, which acted as a lens in my interactions with attractive women. A healthy vision would have had me treat attractive women like anyone else, like any brother or sister in Christ. But my vision was tainted by impurity.

In my marriage, I see that the effects are still active, but in relation specifically to sexuality. In our normal, day to day interactions, I treat her as well as I can, as a loving husband, not always successful, but trying. Yet, early on, when it came to sex, I was often forceful or manipulative. Not that I forced myself onto her. I didn’t. Rather, I was insistent.

I no longer am, and I attribute this in large part to NFP, as well as to serious examinations of myself and my marriage and what a loving husband ought to look like. Having been forced to respect her boundaries, to respect our own wishes for our family, and practice abstinence when we need to, I have grown very much as a person, as a man, and as a husband.

Part of this growth, though, has involved recognizing external triggers that increase our sexual desires. By this, I mean sexually suggestive ads at malls, on tv, in magazines, or unexpected love scenes in shows or movies, or even books. Our environment is very highly sexualized, and that makes practicing NFP much more difficult than it should. Yes, there is a natural desire between a husband and a wife, but I think perhaps in the past it may have been easier to practice abstinence than it is today.

The ideal that I’m striving for is to be able to see my wife firstly as a sister in Christ, a daughter of God, and secondly as my wife. In the end, Christ tells us there is no marriage in heaven, so with an eschatological vision, my wife is firstly and foremostly my sister in Christ, and that should be my first treatment of her. She is my wife also, but secondarily, and I hope to come to the point when our sexual choices are made as responsible mutual decisions, and not from irrational passions. That doesn’t mean there can’t be room for spontaneity, just that the source of that spontaneity isn’t the fact that I’m all hot and bothered and can’t help myself.

Believe me when I say that I understand the desire to use ABC. For me, it would be a freedom to indulge. But having come as far as I have, I couldn’t countenance that anymore. I couldn’t treat my wife that way anymore. I accept the fact that I have to abstain. I’ve come to realize that just as a celibate priest is an image of the eschatological man, so too is a celibate husband an image of the eschatological man. But only insofar as my disposition about it is proper. I must be willing and accepting, placing God and my wife ahead of my own desires, for this is the proper order of things. Mayhap, one day, I might be counted among the blessed married saints who practiced perpetual celibacy. But only if it be God’s will, and my wife’s. ;)😛

God bless.
As an engaged man, thank you for your powerful testimony.
 
What is good and right and just does not damage. It edifies, because God Himself is the source of what is good and right and just. The Church teaches that NFP is morally acceptible. Therefore, I must look to something else to determine what is causing damage in our relationship.
Mr Snaith, it seemed that God was very near you as you typed your words. You have the gift of simple, unadulterated wisdom. Thankyou for a really special post.
 
lovemysix’s story is exactly the sort of situation I had in mind.

One often reads on this forum of couples who suddenly realize that they need to space out their next pregnancy, but they’ve got absolutely no history of consistent charting, no history of being able to abstain, no serious NFP instruction, no record of success with NFP even under the best of circumstances, and they’re in the middle of postpartum breastfeeding weirdness.

I don’t know if there were anything that could help lovemysix in particular, but I think a lot of couples in this situation would be helped by having a bit more of a track record of success before the stakes get so high. And I think they should be warned that this could literally be a matter of life and death (not to mention lots of unnecessary abstinence). (We had four years between getting married and the birth of our first child, and in that time I was able to get my MA and my husband was able to finish a doctorate and get his first real job. Was that entirely necessary to wait so long before having our first? I don’t know, and I’ve since seen a lot of couples happily raising babies in grad school, but our initial success with NFP gave me a lot of confidence during harder times.)

That’s exactly why I feel some sympathy for the NFP police that 7armyrugrats dislikes. Presumably, a lot of those people understand what the stakes are, and they would like couples to get the hang of NFP before NFP becomes a matter of life and death.

This is going to be unpopular with some people, but I more and more think that if breastfeeding is a problem with NFP, couples should seriously consider cutting it short as one of their options, especially as the baby gets bigger. I don’t know when this happened, but at some point breastfeeding for a year acquired the force of law. I’ve done it three times, but if curtailing breastfeeding would make NFP easier, that might be the right thing to do.
 
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