ABC News Re: Sextuplet births

[YinYangMom]

Came across this news article this morning and at last felt validated in my usual reaction to news like this (about families being ‘blessed’ with sextuplets). Whenever people bring up this good news I immediately ask if the couple used invitro to conceive. They look at me like I’m nuts, saying “What’s that have to do with it?” And I reply, “Everything”.

Here is the news article. On the second page the option for ‘selective reductions’ enters the story, as well as “God’s hands”.

Please share your thoughts on the article and topic.

In Rare Event Two Mothers Give Birth to Sextuplets On Same Day
Both Women Used Fertility Drugs To Conceive
By Laura Coverson
June 17, 2007

It is a rare event in the United States, indeed in the world – the birth of sextuplets. Out of more than 4 million births in the U.S. in 2005, just 85 deliveries involved five or more babies.

Making the occasion rarer recently was the birth of two sets of sextuplets just 10 hours apart.

On June 12, Ryan and Brianna Morrison of Minnesota became parents of four boys and two girls, born after just 22 weeks in their mother’s womb.

And in Phoenix that same day, after just 30 weeks of pregnancy, Jenny Mashe gave birth to three boys and three girls.

The joy of the birth announcements, however, was tempered with news that three of the sextuplets born prematurely to the Morrisons died. Lincoln Sean Morrison died Friday, following the deaths of two of his brothers, Tryg and Bennet, on Wednesday.

…more

I am not opposed to large families by any means. If God so blesses a couple with sextuplets, praise be His name. I am confident that family will receive all the grace necessary to raise those children to know and to love Him.

But when a person contracepts for years, then tries to conceive and discovers it’s not that easy anymore, so they resort to more medical science to up their chances, have quin- or sextuplets as a result, and praise God for their blessings I get upset. That was not God. That was man. God would have provided a natural child in His time, or He would have moved the couple to adopt, having realized they messed up all those years before playing God with their fertility.

 

[mesquite_magic]

*"I am not opposed to large families by any means. If God so blesses a couple with sextuplets, praise be His name. I am confident that family will receive all the grace necessary to raise those children to know and to love Him.

But when a person contracepts for years, then tries to conceive and discovers it’s not that easy anymore, so they resort to more medical science to up their chances, have quin- or sextuplets as a result, and praise God for their blessings I get upset. That was not God. That was man. God would have provided a natural child in His time, or He would have moved the couple to adopt, having realized they messed up all those years before playing God with their fertility."* Sorry, I messed up the quotes.

I think you are making a big assumption about them contracepting. I didn’t see anything in that article to suggest that they were. I know lots of people who never had a problem concieving after using birth control.
I can’t imagine being infertile. I love being pregnant and having children. If I were told that I wasn’t able too, you bet I’d go through fertility treatments to have baby. We tried for a year and a half to get pregnant with Mia. In the grand scheme of things that’s not very long, but it was really hard for me. Having my period start every month for 1 and 1/2 years, made me feel like a failure. It would be awful going through that for years and years, especially when you know there are treatments available to help.

Kim

 

[Seatuck]

No indication either couple used contraceptives which caused infertility.
Neither of the couples used invitro. One of the couples used artificial insemmination and the other took fertility drugs . Neither couple chose selective reduction. There is some good news amidst the bad.
Catholics are not forbidden from seeking out moral means of technology.

usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

 

[YinYangMom]

No indication either couple used contraceptives which caused infertility.
Neither of the couples used invitro. One of the couples used artificial insemmination and the other took fertility drugs . Neither couple chose selective reduction. There is some good news amidst the bad.
Catholics are not forbidden from seeking out moral means of technology.

usccb.org/prolife/issues/nfp/treatment.htm

Thanks for the information. I was not aware fertility drugs was approved. From the link the artificial insemination would have been disapproved, correct?

And yes, there’s no indication of whether or not contraceptives were used prior, and I notice it’s a fact journalists don’t flesh out, but based on the numerous conversations I’ve had with other women who struggle to conceive ‘when they’re ready’ 90% of those women were on the pill long term. I would be surprised if these women stated they never used artificial birth control, let alone leading up to the decision to start ‘trying’ to have children.

I am surprised the church endorses fertility treatment though, considering the risks and all. I guess so long as the couple is prepared and willing to accept all the children from that, as these couples did (God bless them for that), it’s ok.

 

[debraran]

Below is an answer that was posted on EWTN’s site…the church doesn’t really condone methods that are used in most infertile cases. Any manipulation with the sperm and egg isn’t thought of as "natural’. I can’t say I agree wholeheartedly, but I don’t think you should have such large births either for many reasons. I had twins and have heard of natural quads, but anything over that is beyond “hard to handle”.

Judie Browns answer (pro life advocate)
As you probably know, the Catholic Church does not condone in vitro fertilization and other similar technologies. The solutions to infertility can be found in Catholic medical practice, but such technologies are not part of them.

In other words, discerning God’s will and trusting His providence come about by knowing what is good, what is evil, and what we sometimes are called to do when the easy solution is not the right thing to do. In the case of this expectant mom who is carrying six children, her first step should have been to consult with the Pope Paul VI Institute of a physician trained by that Institute.

Judie Brown

 

[Seatuck]

Thanks for the information. I was not aware fertility drugs was approved. From the link the artificial insemination would have been disapproved, correct?

Correct, artificial insemination not allowed.

I do agree with you that long term use of the pill does seem to lead to infertility.

 

[Zooey]

Judie Browns answer (pro life advocate)
As you probably know, the Catholic Church does not condone in vitro fertilization and other similar technologies. The solutions to infertility can be found in Catholic medical practice, but such technologies are not part of them.

In other words, discerning God’s will and trusting His providence come about by knowing what is good, what is evil, and what we sometimes are called to do when the easy solution is not the right thing to do. In the case of this expectant mom who is carrying six children, her first step should have been to consult with the Pope Paul VI Institute of a physician trained by that Institute.

Judie Brown

Gotta:thumbsup: agree with the lady once again!!

May I also add, that it might be a good idea for couples to consult the Pope Paul VI Institute, before they go to regular fertility doctors?? After all, that would avoid the whole question of using doubtful means of conception…
I realize that many of these people are not Catholic. But I can’t imagine that (A) they are going to get any kind of Christian counseling anywhere else, & (B) that the Institute would turn away a couple of another faith who was seeking to have children using means that eliminate the whole “selective reduction” argument being brought into play by other doctors…
I have a relative who is openly admiring of some of the couples who have–quite rightly–rejected aborting some babies to reduce the health risks to the mother, but, the time is fast approaching when I am going to find myslef forced to say: “If they hadn’t been using immoral means to conceive, they wouldn’t be having to make this decision now”…

 

[YinYangMom]

Correct, artificial insemination not allowed.

I do agree with you that long term use of the pill does seem to lead to infertility.

DH is in public health and he raises his brow constantly whenever I raise the issue of infertility and prior artificial contraceptive use. He asks for data and I admit, I have none, which is troubling enough because I sure wish someone would do a study on it.

My observation/opinion isn’t so much that ABC leads to infertility. It seems to me the mindset behind ABC practice leads to complications in fertility.

A woman is taught or brainwashed into ‘controlling’ her cycles from puberty until** she **determines she’s ready to be a mom. When that woman finally wants to conceive the pressure is on, and that pressure wreaks havoc on one’s hormones (there must be some studies to verify that somewhere). With the hormones out of whack already, after all those years of being manipulated by ABC, this added twist tends to keep the desired conception at arm’s length.

Now, here’s the rub. These women tend to wait until their early 30s to late 40s to attempt to conceive. The body isn’t all that ripe at that age anyway, so their sense of urgency is great. This leads to impatience. They don’t have 3 - 5 non-contraceptive sex years to let nature do what it needs to do to finally get in synch, plus their emotions playing on the hormones makes that difficult as well. So what do they do? They turn to science. Science enabled them to not conceive. Now science will enable them to conceive. If it’s one child or six, that’s worth placing their faith in the science.

It’s all part of that “I want it, and I want it now!” mentality. I see the hinderance to fertility as the consequence or result of living out that mentality, not so much a scientific result of ABC. But again, that’s based on personal observation and opinion.

 

[aurora77]

… so they resort to more medical science to up their chances, have quin- or sextuplets as a result, and praise God for their blessings I get upset. That was not God. That was man. God would have provided a natural child in His time, or He would have moved the couple to adopt, having realized they messed up all those years before playing God with their fertility.

Usually I agree with most of your posts, but I’m going to have to disagree here. I’m part of a infertile couple, so that’s probably coloring my judgement, but I’m not sure how what they are doing is wrong. Fertility drugs are allowed by the Church, so as long as they weren’t doing anything immoral, I don’t have a problem with it. Yes, there are risks to consider with taking these drugs, but the same is true for anything we do, whether it be take a medication or have a procedure done. To say that they are “playing God” to me seems like telling a cancer patient that they are playing God by seeking treatment instead of waiting to see how the disease plays out.

I do agree with your last post. Unfortunately, we’ve been sold a lie that we can have it all, that we can postpone having kids until we’re 40 and science will help us out. In that case, it’s not the science that’s in the wrong (this doesn’t include immoral procedures like IVF), it’s our thinking about our fertility. Medical science is a tool, like any other, that we must use wisely.

 

[YinYangMom]

Usually I agree with most of your posts, but I’m going to have to disagree here. I’m part of a infertile couple, so that’s probably coloring my judgement, but I’m not sure how what they are doing is wrong.

It doesn’t appear we are in disagreement on the fertility treatments. Once Seatuck clarified that the Church is not opposed to fertility drugs I backed away from my initial response and thanked Seatuck for the clarification. I was not aware the Church approved of that treatment. In this news article, thankfully, both families were open to God’s will for the survival of the babies, rather than feeding into the doctor’s suggestion to selectively abort. How many other couples are as strong, though?

To say that they are “playing God” to me seems like telling a cancer patient that they are playing God by seeking treatment instead of waiting to see how the disease plays out.

Perhaps that’s what you disagree with me about.

First, my condolences for your struggling with infertility yourself. I do not in any way diminish the pain and anguish a couple experiences during this time. The sense of betrayal and frustration has to be maddening. You and all other couples struggling with this issue are in my prayers especially on Mother’s and Father’s day.

Diabetes and cancer treatments have to do with sustaining ones own life. We’d be negligent to the gift of life God gave to us if we knowingly refused His help, through science, to continue doing His will. If we truly are meant to die through these illnesses, then despite the treatments we will, but I am confident whether we come through them with a long life or short one the journey will have been part of our purpose in this lifetime.

Having biological children is not a matter of life and death. From the Old Testament on infertility has been an issue. Apparently some couples are meant to have biological children and some are not. Look at Sarah. With faith and obedience there are many examples of couples who do end up blessed with children at the most unexpected time - especially after they’ve resigned themselves to the situation. What about Mary? A young woman who wasn’t seeking to conceive and yet gave her yes, and in doing so resigned herself to only one child, and no children from her loving husband, Joseph. I sometimes wonder if she longed to give Joseph the gift of a natural heir. Did she ever struggle with that?

I personally know several women who, once they opted for adoption, became pregnant around the time the children they were waiting to enter into their home arrived. Where they thought they’d be blessed with one, they ended up with two and sometimes three. And there are others we can read about in the news who end up taking in a friend’s child for a time of trouble, or caring for a neighbor’s children as the parents go through a stressful time, or take in their sibling’s children after an unexpected death. Add to that the stories of couples blessed with children who are taken up to heaven way to early, thus leaving the couple childless in the end. God finds ways to fulfill our need to nurture. It just may not be the way we want it to play out.

I guess that’s what I mean by playing God. Rather than open ourselves up to God’s plan for our need to nurture we take it upon ourselves, through science. The bottom line is a lack of trust in God knowing what’s best for us and providing us with everything we could ever need or desire.

For the infertile couple choosing fertility procedures it’s a hedging of their bet, so to speak…I trust in you, Lord, to hear my prayers and answer them according to your will, but just in case, I’m going to go through these procedures I know you don’t approve of to lend you a helping hand in answering them the way I really want them answered. Those who choose vasectomies, tubal ligation and other artificial means of contraception are just as guilty in this lack of trust. They, too, turn to science, ‘just in case’ God’s will isn’t quite on the same page as theirs. I don’t fault either group because unconditional trust is very, very difficult to establish. It leaves one feeling so vulnerable, but I’ve learned God speaks to us most when we are in that state.

Fortunately we do have the Catholic Church to help us make sense of all the various medical procedures available to us for all our health issues, diabetes, cancer, fertility and infertility. That they have studied the methods and are able to approve various options is truly a blessing. But again, I do believe it is the journey of our struggles which serve our Lord most during such trials, not so much the end result.