Abdominal pregnancy

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How would a Catholic physician respond to a woman with an abdominal pregnancy? Or an ectopic pregnancy in general?
 
But what about in cases of abdominal pregnancy where removal of the Fallopian tube isn’t an option?
 
mitex said:
But what about in cases of abdominal pregnancy where removal of the Fallopian tube isn’t an option?
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There wouldn’t be a case where removing the tube isn’t an option. That’s the whole point. The embryo/foetus has plonked itself down in the tube, which is not meant to gestate a pregnancy, the removal of the tube solves the problem as the tube would rupture causing bleeding and possible death for the mother. The death of the child is a sad, unintended consquence of removing the tube. If you know of a case where a treatment for a tubal pregnancy could not involve removing the tube I’d like to hear it.

There’s currently two ways of solving tubal pregnancy, taking medication to disolve the foetus - which is an act directly intended to kill the child, thus murder and wrong, or removal of the tube - which results in the death of the child, but that death is not the intention, only a result.

Other abdominal pregnancies - depends where they are. there are cases where the child has gestated normally. But for the most part, tissue around the foetus will be damaged, and could cause internal bleeding, which is while it needs to be removed.
 
May I strongly suggest that those who have not experienced an ectopic pregnancy, not post comments about it. This is especially the case - as with the last person posting - where you do not know what you are talking about. Ectopic pregnancies are not solely tubal pregnancies. The clue is in the title of this thread: ‘abdominal pregnncy’, i.e. not tubal pregnancy.
Simply keep thoughts to your good self and just pray for those affected, thanking God you haven’t experienced such a thing/ you don’t have a wife who has went through this.
 
mitex said:
How would a Catholic physician respond to a woman with an abdominal pregnancy? Or an ectopic pregnancy in general?
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From what I have heard, the CC allows for the surgical removal of the child in these situations. But intent is key.

If a woman has an ectopic pregnancy, doctors can give her the option of taking an abortificient pill. This is NOT approved by the CC and is immoral. Even though the same ends takes place, (the death of a child) the means and intent is different.
Surgically removing the child is going in with the intent to remove the child from a dangerous situation. The child dies as a natural consequence of removing them from harm. Aborting the child, by a pill or other means, is immoral because the intent is to first kill the child in order to remove it.

This may seem like semantics, but it’s not. For example, say you were trapped in a bombed building, and a doctor was able to get inside and assess your wounds and determine that you were going to die from your wounds no matter what. The building you were in was going to collapse sooner or later, and you were so trapped you couldn’t be freed right away. Having rescue workers come and dig you out would mean risking the lives of several people. Since you are going to die anyway, and the building is risking collapse, someone suggests that they simply blow up the building with you in it rather than risk removing you. The latter (removing you from the building, even if it means risking other people’s lives) treats you with human dignity. The former (blowing you up along with the building) does not. The latter is more risky, but it’s also humane.

Sometimes the easier or more “logical” method is not the moral one.
 
…and sometimes the ‘logical’ analysis of issues which you have no insight into in a human sense, is not necessarily right…

Please show some respect for those people who do - sadly - have insight into this extremely difficult situation and stop posting about this specific topic. You - regretfully - give the impression of judging rather than caring for your fellow human being.
 
What exactly is an abdominal pregnancy? I have never heard of it.
 
Cecilia_Dympna said:
But surely taking medication to dissolve the foetus would be preferable
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Surely not.

This is an abortion and is never a moral option.

The advice to contact the National Catholic Bioethics Center is good advice. They have extensive research into all of these situations and can provide guidance on church teaching.
 
Holly3278 said:
What exactly is an abdominal pregnancy? I have never heard of it.
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It is a form of ectopic pregnancy in which the fertilized egg does not descend into the uterus, but instead goes outside the reproductive tract and attaches to the abdominal wall, outside uterine wall, or other organs.

There are many factors that determine what the doctors can and cannot do in such a situation and the National Catholic Bioethics Center is indeed a good resource for people in such a situation.
 
True_Compassion said:
…and sometimes the ‘logical’ analysis of issues which you have no insight into in a human sense, is not necessarily right…

Please show some respect for those people who do - sadly - have insight into this extremely difficult situation and stop posting about this specific topic. You - regretfully - give the impression of judging rather than caring for your fellow human being.
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With all due respect and compassion for your experiences…you can’t just say “this happened to me, so therefore it’s off-limits for anyone else to discuss”. If the thread is causing you distress, then I would suggest that you not continue to view it. The question is a totally legitimate topic for Catholics to talk about.
 
mgoforth said:
With all due respect and compassion for your experiences…you can’t just say “this happened to me, so therefore it’s off-limits for anyone else to discuss”. If the thread is causing you distress, then I would suggest that you not continue to view it. The question is a totally legitimate topic for Catholics to talk about.
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Please do not misquote me. I did not say: “This happened to me, so therefore it’s off-limits for anyone else to discuss.” Indeed, my style is not that abrupt. What I was doing was highlighting the serious lack of understanding and insight which some individuals on this thread illustrate with regard to this issue. If compassion and lack of judging others cannot be embraced in each post, then that reduces your fellow humans to mere subjects for discussion. I do not believe that is Catholic in any sense of the word.

As someone who is actively involved in the Church, this thread leaves me extremely worried about the extremist, judgemental views which are alive within the Catholic community today. I can see that your lack of human insight into this situation affords you a more objective position. At the same time, there is a fine line between this and judging others and reducing the human spirit. I may be wrong, but to be fair to you, you sound younger and perhaps more prone to black and white thinking on such matters. I understand. I am quite sure that I may have inadvertently judged others in my own mind on issues owing to my lack of life experience in earlier years.

I pray for you and your growth in genuine sensitivity for your fellow human being and your understanding.

Sincerely,
 
FWIW, I do not see any judgment in any of the comments here. I actually think the discussion about what to do should involve those who are not experiencing/have not experienced an ectopic pregnancy, precisely because the emotions involved in such a situation are so intense. Those who are not emotionally invested in a particular scenario may be able to see things that those who are emotionally invested cannot. Bearing in mind, here we are not commenting on any particular woman having such a pregnancy.
 
choose_to_love said:
FWIW, I do not see any judgment in any of the comments here. I actually think the discussion about what to do should involve those who are not experiencing/have not experienced an ectopic pregnancy, precisely because the emotions involved in such a situation are so intense. Those who are not emotionally invested in a particular scenario may be able to see things that those who are emotionally invested cannot. Bearing in mind, here we are not commenting on any particular woman having such a pregnancy.
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Wth regret, your post illustrates the lack of genuine sincerity and care which is evident from some people who are posting on this issue. I pray for you and your growth and understanding, sincerely,
 
@true compassion: How?

To me, the issue of how one treats a woman who is actually experiencing an ectopic pregnancy, and the compassion/empathy one would need to exhibit in such an actual real-life situation, is markedly different from discussing in the abstract on a public discussion board the courses of action that may or may not be moral and licit in the abstract event of such a pregnancy. What error do you see in my analysis?

I agree with mgoforth that it is a legitmate subject for discussion.

In any event, thank you for your prayers.
 
choose_to_love said:
@true compassion: How?

To me, the issue of how one treats a woman who is actually experiencing an ectopic pregnancy, and the compassion/empathy one would need to exhibit in such an actual real-life situation, is markedly different from discussing in the abstract on a public discussion board the courses of action that may or may not be moral and licit in the abstract event of such a pregnancy. What error do you see in my analysis?

I agree with mgoforth that it is a legitmate subject for discussion.

In any event, thank you for your prayers.
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It is the manner in which this situation is being discussed which is problematic. The whole picture is not being taken into account and comments lack not only knowledge about this situation but also genuine concern. And yes, this should be evident, even when discussing this in the abstract. Otherwise, as Catholics, our humanity is taken out of the equation. In total, even the tone of your post lacks sincerity and I leave it to the moderator to determine the best course of action regarding this thread.

Again, I pray for your growth and understanding - though I hope you will never be faced with, or be affected by, this circumstance. If you ever are, I doubt you would like to be the subject of such ivory tower debate which lacks insight and compassion.

Sincerely,
 
Here’s a little bit of information on abdominal pregnancy, for those who don’t know what it is: medscape.com/viewarticle/557082_5

Ectopic pregnancies are those that occur outside the uterus. Tubal pregnancy is one of them. Abdominal pregnancy is another, and even more rare than tubal pregnancy.

What’s interesting in a scary kind of way is that some have happened after hysterectomy :eek:

Obviously, if the woman is in an emergency situation due to hemorrhaging and her life is in immediate danger, the fetus will be removed. The Church doesn’t forbid life saving interventions and doesn’t expect a woman to bleed out on the floor of an emergency room without any intervention or medical care.

If hemorrhage hasn’t happened yet, treatment will depend on many factors, including where implantation occurs and the direct effect on the woman as a result of it. It’s possible the fetus might develop to a point of viability and can be removed and put in the NICU.

If someone is stressing thinking over this question, calling the National Catholic Bioethics Center might help. Obviously if one is in an emergency situation already, there won’t be time to call or think about it.
 
@true: Well, I imagine we are at the agreeing to disagree stage.

Could you perhaps provide an example for how such a discussion could be framed “with genuine concern”, or for the appropriate manner for it to be discussed? I am trying to understand your viewpoint.
 
choose_to_love said:
@true: Well, I imagine we are at the agreeing to disagree stage.

Could you perhaps provide an example for how such a discussion could be framed “with genuine concern”, or for the appropriate manner for it to be discussed? I am trying to understand your viewpoint.
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The mere fact that you have to ask how to show genuine concern whilst debating this intrinsically emotive issue, speaks volumes. My advice would be to go out into the world and experience life more and meet face-to-face with people who have went through the trauma of ectopic pregnancy before debating the issue in an extremely objective, rational and at times, flipppant manner.

This will be my final post on this thread which I have - regretfully - happened upon. I will however be taking my concerns regarding the manner in which this issue has been discussed here directly to the Church.

Shaking the proverbial dust from my feet…sincerely and with prayers,
 
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