Ability to respond to anti-Carholic comments without sounding uncharitable

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10gr8kids

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The other evening, I was with a group of people, non-Catholics, and the conversation turned to why so many people think Christians are hypocrites. Everyone was giving different incidents about why this might be when one person commented on all the altar boys that have been sexually abused by priests. To be fair, this same person pointed to TV evangelist that haven’t been great examples.
While writing this, I’m thinking maybe I really shouldn’t take this as an anti-Catholic comment because it is a good example of why some might think of Christians as being hypocritical. Yet, I really wanted to respond to this comment by pointing out that the abuse by priests isn’t greater than in Protestant denominations and that it is in no way the norm.
The comment didn’t really anger me, but, knowing myself, I knew if I tried to respond I would sound very agitated. Every time I get into a discussion with someone about the Church or pro-life issues, my voice gets higher, I feel my heart rate increase, and I can’t put my thoughts into coherent words. This happens even when I’m not angry. :confused:
I am shy, and not very outgoing. I’m also very passionate about what I believe. I just wish I could state my beliefs without getting so worked up.
Any thoughts or advice? I really want to be able to help people better understand the Catholic Church and her teachings, but I want to be able to come across as charitable and not angry.
 
Here’s one way to think about it, courtesy of my wife. If there’s any positive side to people criticizing the Catholic church for the bad behavior of a few of its members, it is that people would not bother to criticize the Church if they didn’t expect it to be good. Personally, I might go with the approach of pointing out that, sadly, sexual abuse is not unique to the Catholic church. I’ve never seen a sourced statistic for this (would like to), but I’ve often read that the levels of sexual abuse and cover-up are much higher in the sphere of public education. Anecdotally, I can certainly believe it from the stories I read in our area alone. The media, though, seems to treat the problem as if the Catholic church is the primary source of this evil in the world. You could promote positive aspects of the Church; for example, you could mention that the Church is the single largest provider of charitable services in the world.
The negative side is that, I imagine, a lot of people who focus on this one negative aspect of the Catholic church are, it seems, sometimes just looking for something to substantiate a bias they already harbor and may not be swayed by facts, statistics, etc. It’s painful to sit by and listen to people run down the Church, and I’ve done it without responding, but I’d say a prayer of reparation and try to discern if the Holy Spirit wants you to respond and ask Him how you should respond to critics. Lashing out angrily will rarely, if ever, be productive.
 
One of the things that will help you both with responding and with keeping a calm head while you do is learning more about these issues so you can respond with facts that you are confident in. The second thing is to know that your job is to evangelize, not defend. Present the facts, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. Your calm conviction is as great a testament to your message as the words you say.
 
So many people repeating what they have heard others say doesn’t necessarily make something true. A deacon friend of mine who was well acquainted with the statistics told me the rate of abuse is lower among Catholics than it is in other religions.

As Piney Woods was saying, another thing the media chooses not to report, is the alarming rate of ongoing sexual abuse in public schools today:

Catholic sex abuse facts,from TheMediaReport.com (Clicking on the “read more” segment of item # 1 will show several quotes from credible sources).

People who refer to Christians as hypocrites or who keep harping on about Catholic sex abuse cases, often do so to make themselves feel superior: They don’t have the sacrament of Reconciliation, so they try to cope by making comparisons with those (purportedly) in a worse state than they are.

None of that guarantees us that an extra dose of patience will be available at the precise moment where people decide to knock what and Whom we love though.

FWIW, not too long ago I heard a priest say : “Try to be kind to each person you meet because today, everybody is fighting. some sort of battle.”

I found it helped if I could remember that right in the heat of the moment , right when they were dissing the Church. Praying for them is never a bad idea either.

🙂
 
when a 7th day advent christian was sayin to me –

1… Gee i hope people seee Christ in me–

MY response was – well are you functioning in the 9 ministry gifts of the Holy Spirit ?

do you pray an give prophetic insite and revelation to people when prayed for ?

Joel 2;28 --That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:

do you do what mark 16;16-20 ?

there is the power of the holy Spirit

and there is the fruit of the Holy Spirit

But it is interesting to pray for people-- because God the Holy Spirit will give you a word – for them particularly–

it is more than yes,no,or not now–

25 And thus[c] the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

this is a regular event at the prayer meetings i go to–

and i really enjoy it when – the Holy Spirit enlightens 2 or more of us becasue

then we can judge our prophetic words–

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

this is the way it is in my christian fellowship
 
10gr8kids, I can sympathise with you.

I know what I believe, and why I believe it. But when put on the spot, I am at a loss for words to explain things, and just end up butchering things as a result and sounding like something of an idiotic who doesn’t understand his faith.
The worst thing was this happened when I was semi-confronted by an Anglican minister claiming Catholics hold the catchechism higher than the Bible, and what I would do if its interpretation of the Bible was wrong.

The other issue I have is not wanting to offend people by trying to state the truth. Less so online, but I am always afraid when speaking on a touchy-topic of what people have to say.

To be fair, the abuse cases haven’t just been altar boys in Church, they have been boys and girls in all kinds of situations, quite unfortunately.

A lot of abuse happened in a time of great upheaval, both in the Church and also in society in general. Its hard to say what went wrong in that time, but I guess a lot of people with the wrong intentions found their way into the priesthood and religious life.

There are a lot of facts and statistics out there on the abuse, but at the end of the day, I don’t know whether there is much point posting them because abuse is abuse. Its happened now and cannot be reversed.
Whats good is that better measures have been put in place to help prevent it and better support avenues too.

Its important to note, though, that the media has unfairly capitalised on the Church’s failings, rather than that of educational departments and educational institutions who have also covered things up. Hopefully, we have learnt from our mistakes and these issues can be avoided in the future.

The other thing is that people may also criticise “Oh they can just go to confession and its forgiven, how could ANY fair God forgive such a horrible thing?!?!”
If anything, this simply demonstrates the ignorance and hatred some people have for the Church. In this situation, you just have to explain that God understands our fallen nature and is ready to help us return to a state of grace and faithfulness.

Hope this helps. Again, I know how you feel!
God Bless.
 
CuriousMike,
Thanks for your words of encouragement. I think it use to be easier for me to speak up when I wasn’t t concerned about how I sounded, as long as what I said was the Truth. Now, I think it is important to be able to speak the truth charitably if we want to have any impact. It use to just be about defending our faith, now I want to help bring about greater unity. So, now I find myself holding back more and more, even as I think I have a greater understanding of the Church teachings than I used to when I never held my tongue.

It isn’t even that I feel angry, I think it is just how I come across, not necessarily by what I say, but my tone. Maybe it is because I worry about it too much, and then get nervous. Like the more I think about not crying when I go to confession, the more likely I am to cry. 🤷

Obviously, I have a hard time controlling my emotions.
 
I had a recent experience with this at work.
Two co-workers were talking about this very subject: Priests who are hypocrites.
I listened to them. One said to the other “what would you do if you walked into a local brothel and you saw your pastor there.”

They started discussing whether they’d invite the priest/pastor to join them in on their sin while he sins and give him a h-five as they do their sins together in the same room. And then after he could just pray a prayer to God and have his sins forgiven. Just like that.

Obviously they were ignorant, so I spoke up and explained how mortal sins cut someone off from the grace of God and people are held accountable for their action—at least that is what the Roman Catholic Church teaches.

Guy looked at me with this confrontational look like he was ready to say a lot of negative things to a catholic. “Oh what, are you catholic?” He asked.

“No, I’m an evangelical protestant. But I’m familiar with what they teach.”

He suddenly deflated his look, saying nothing. Then we had a charitable discussion briefly about how the reason organized religion is good is because if it wasn’t organized, the church would have not endured during the harsh persecutions of the first 300 years and some, and it would have been overtaken by different opinions, which is what has happened with protestantism today with it’s many differences and divisions.

I get the feeling people have sincere feelings negatively towards catholics but if you speak about what they stand for from an objective position perceived as unbiased and neautral, people are willing to listen.

I hope my story helped further the discussion on this matter.
 
I arrived here in Ireland as the first wave of the abuse scandals was breaking and have watched and listened with horror. Here it was, according of Vatican figures ( and please do not ask me to reveal my source, but it is impeccable) well over 80% of all priests, brothers and Sisters abused children. When you realise that here in Ireland the Church owned and ran almost all the schools, hospitals, and other institutions you can see how great a hold it had. If you read the Ryan and Murphy reports and the sheer volume of abuse, you may think differently of how to react when folk speak of it. I talk to many folk in my goings out an in. Some are horrified and grieving. My landlord, a good, simple Irish man of deep faith, finally asked me if it was all true. Then he bowed his head and said " They have let us all down". It was a humbling sight that I will never forget. What comes across here is that there is no real deep penitence, no change in attitude. Many say the only grief is that they were found out. We are not done yet either with the revelations and the effects of the abuse may never end. There can hardly be a family here untouched and it is that that caused the gay marriage acceptance. We of the Church have little authority left as it was truly hypocrisy and worse. I once talked with a brand new curate… he was boasting as to how we " did not do too badly when you compare with the scouts etc" He was fresh out of seminary. I gently and firmly reminded him that the scout masters were not priests and that it was far far worse when priests who were teaching the faith did wrong… There is huge anger here still among the disaffected young. I was on boards ie ( until I got banned for … well for being strong in the faith!) and some of the threads there are sheer rage. We need to accept fully what the Church did. We cannot ever be complacent. The scars here among the young run very deep and we have lost so many souls. All I can say is yes, it was appalling. and wrong. and let folk be angry and hurt and pray for them and with them. Be the love of Jesus with and for them. Over and out on this sad business,in so many cases it is not anti Catholic per se but anti sin. And in that there is hope. And my hope is that love. So I do not argue or challenge comments. I listen and grieve with the sorrowing and let them vent.
 
In Australia the rate was 4% during the time the majority of the abuse is said to have happened. This is exactly in line with the figures of the general population at the time. The problem was re-offending after these people were “fixed with treatment.”
Concerned Priests would go to the Police to report abuse, who would subsequently brush them off and tell them to “fix the problem yourselves.”

The other issue was I don’t think society really saw it as a threat. They ignored it, until it was too late. Remember this was also in the era of “children are seen and not heard,” so a child’s word would almost always be treated as though it were a joke.
 
Refusal to face facts is why the Church here is dying. You do not need my " forgiveness" my dear. Source is not anonymous and you fail to see the overbearing role the church played in ireland. Source is actually official Vatican figures. Which is why the Pope has not visited us. My research is impeccable and I was as shocked as you are … My point remains that until and unless the church stops crying false allegations they will be scorned here. Real penitence is needed and your post shows the situation clearly. We have yet to see the report into the mother and baby homes that is due out soon, No witch hunt my dear. Thousands of young lives damaged and ruined.
 
At the crux if what I am saying is that any abuse of any kind, regardless of stats is INEXCUSABLE and INDEFENSIBLE and any defensiveness is also both those things. That was what I said to that young curate also. Think I need to quit this forum and if need be the Church. Cannot believe the attitudes. I work pro bono with abuse victims and never once will I or do I make any excuse for " the church". I apologise and comfort and totally agree that is was inexcusable and indefensible. Does not the Catechism say that the sin of one affects the whole? All I hear is excuses and defences.
 
Rosebud77 said:
At the crux if what I am saying is that any abuse of any kind, regardless of stats is INEXCUSABLE and INDEFENSIBLE and any defensiveness is also both those things. That was what I said to that young curate also. Think I need to quit this forum and if need be the Church. Cannot believe the attitudes. I work pro bono with abuse victims and never once will I or do I make any excuse for " the church". I apologise and comfort and totally agree that is was inexcusable and indefensible. Does not the Catechism say that the sin of one affects the whole? All I hear is excuses and defences.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to my post - I am pointing out that what the media portrays as the “truth,” that is, distorting the truth to present the Catholic Church (in particular) and some other religious groups as the sole source of abuse in Australia is wrong - and that what happened in Australia in the Catholic Church was representative of what was seen amongst the general population.

As facts and statistics presented in my own parish last week by a police-officer demonstrate, the rate of abuse was no higher than the rest of the population - meaning what happened in the Church isn’t the sole source of the problem, or where we should look to for a complete solution. This neglects public services like hospitals, schools and other public or not-for-profit (secular) institutions.

^This is a defence - because what society perceives to have happened, and what REALLY happened seem to be two different stories, and only one side is being reported. You can’t solve the problem unless you know the truth of the matter. Simply pointing a finger at the Church and saying, “Look what they did” doesn’t solve anything.
Were there things happening in the Church at a greater or lesser rate than the general population? Why or why not?

But the figures of what happened in the Church are nothing unless we understand society as a whole (in Ireland).
Why would nearly all clergy be convicted or guilty of committing this crime?
Does this mean that Ireland has an unusually high rate of abuse amongst the general population (which would reflect a deeper underlying problem, perhaps)?
If it was such a prevalent issue - how on earth did this issue take such a long time to manifest itself?

To me, 80% sounds more like a reference to those who recommitted offences after “treatment,” or something along those lines.

We are questioning this because it sounds absurd. Yes, you have researched well, it sounds. But 80% indicates that somehow, the Church in Ireland managed to attract what is normally a very small proportion of the population into its ranks. That, or… I don’t know. Its difficult to comprehend such a statistic.
What I had read previously on Ireland had indicated otherwise - Even given how religious institutions on a whole had much of the control as secular (government) does of many caring institutions today.

If you choose to leave the forum, fair enough. We are only sharing opinions, and trying to understand the depth and gravity of the situation.
You cannot accept what is written on the internet at face value, since plain text such as this cannot convey my body language or tone of voice to you.

Leaving the Church achieves nothing beneficial for yourself. I won’t go into “bearing crosses” and such since that is perhaps obvious.

I agree that one sin injures the entire body of Christ, and as a confessor once instructed me, I should pray in reparation of my sins - since every action against Christ hurts Him and all that follow him.

Hopefully this doesn’t come off as abrupt or rude. But some clarification is definitely necessary - this goes against what we have seen in a number of other countries and is perplexing.
 
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