Abomination and Desolation

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Felicity

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It struck me while watching the Holy Father’s Urbi et Orbi and Easter Mass, seeing him almost alone (where in years past there had been thousands), and how this was happening only months after statue of the Pachamama was set up in the Church of Santamaria in Transpontina (near the Vatican). The phrase “the abomination that causes desolation” was never something that made sense to me until now. Has this come up for anyone else?
 
Felicity said:
the abomination that causes desolation
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Matthew 24: 15 is speaking of events that occurred in our past:

https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/ntcomment26.shtml

Ver. 15. The abomination of desolation was first partly fulfilled by divers profanations of the temple, as when the image of Cæsar was set up in the temple by Pilate, and Adrian’s statue in the holy of holies, and when the sacrifices were taken away; but will be more completely fulfilled by Antichrist and his precursors, when they shall attempt to abolish the holy sacrifice of the mass. S. Hyppolitus, in his treatise de Anti-Christo, mentioned by Eusebius, S. Jerom, and Photius, thus writeth: “The churches shall lament with great lamentations, because there shall neither be made oblations, nor incense, nor worship grateful to God. . . In those days the liturgy (or mass) shall be neglected, the psalmody shall cease, the reciting of Scripture shall not be heard.” — The prophet Daniel (xii. 11.) calculates the reign of Antichrist, from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away; which, by able commentators, is understood of the sacrifice of the mass, which Antichrist will endeavour to suppress. — The abomination of desolation, [2] or the abominable desolation. Instead of these words, we read in S. Luke, (xxi. 20.) When you shall see Jerusalem surrounded by an army. Christ said both the one and the other. But the words in S. Luke, seem rather to give us a sign of the ruin of Jerusalem, than of the end of the world. — Spoken of by Daniel, the prophet. The sense is, when you shall see that very prophecy of Daniel literally fulfilled hereafter. What follows in the prophecy of Daniel, confirms this exposition; when the prophet adds, that the desolation shall continue to the end; that the Jews from that time, shall be no more the people of God, for denying their Messias; and that they shall put the Christ to death. But what then was this desolation, which by the following verse, was to be a sign to the Christians to fly out of Judea? Some expound it of the heathen Roman army, approaching and investing Jerusalem, called the holy city. Others understand the profanation of the temple, made by the Jews themselves, a little before the siege under Vespasian; when the civil dissensions, those called the Zealots, had possessed themselves of the temple, and placed their warlike engines upon the pinnacles; and a part, at least, of the temple was defiled with the dead bodies of those killed there. It was at that time that the Christians, according to Christ’s admonition, left Jerusalem and Judea, and fled to Pella, beyond the river Jordan. See Euseb. l. iii. Hist. c. v. Wi.
 
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The more I learn about this Pachamama debacle the more I’m bothered by it. And while I could not condone the vigilantism that some guys decided was a pious response by tossing these statuettes into the Tiber, I couldn’t really condemn the sentiment either as it’s definitely something that saints in the past did to European idols. Pope Francis obviously wasn’t comfortable with the infamous Vatican Gardens ritual either. He is being very sensitive to the people of the Amazon and I suppose trying a new approach to evangelism by trying to incorporate their spirituality. We can replace idols with icons, but not transform idols into icons. I’m certain this will be relegated to “good intentions, wrong choices” in the history books.

There may be some truth to the connection here metaphorically with the “abomination of desolation”, but it’s not a divine revelation like “God did this,” rather a providential display of how nature worship is misguided.
 
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Sorry off topic, but did you remember your password from 11 years ago or did you have to make up a new one?😛
 
no, because the time is not right for the abomination, and the Pope will never fall, and the Church has nothing to do with it. the abomination comes when the antichrist will come, and has had types in the past
 
Neithan said:
Pope Francis obviously wasn’t comfortable with the infamous Vatican Gardens ritual either
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I was very grateful to the Pope for confirming that the images were in fact Pachamamas. Up to that point, the apologists for the images were (without any authority) claiming it was “our lady of the Amazon” .
 
Because for the author(s) it was future. For us, now, it is past.
 
You think so?

Continuing, He said “ For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.”

Do you really think that has already happened?
 
But it begins with Matthew 24 vs.3: "While he was seated on the Mount of Olives, his disciples came up to him privately and said: “Tell us, when will all this occur? What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the world?”
This is followed by Matthew 24 vs. 4-13. Indeed, the verse immediately before Matthew 24:15 (Christ speaking) “This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world as a witness to all the nations. Only after that will the end come.”
Christ continues to speak about the end times through the rest of Matthew.
Why would Matthew 24:15 be referencing something that (if it has already happened) is NOT about the end times?
 
Yes, and I do think he is a good Pope. Let’s not forget how many Catholics also condemned St. John Paul II when he kissed the Quran — a book that outright denies the incarnation and crucifixion, and claims divine sanction. Popes, even great and holy ones, are not perfect and not every well-intentioned act or gesture or allowance is good for the church. But to create division and foment accusations is already a step towards despair and denial of the guarantee that Christ gave to us that the church will prevail.
 
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Haydock is an excellent commentary:

https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/ntcomment26.shtml

Ver. 22. No flesh: a Hebraism for no person; denoting that no one would have escaped death, had the war continued. Wi. — All the Jews would have been destroyed by the Romans, or all the Christians by Antichrist. Maldonatus. — From this place, Jesus Christ foretells the coming of Antichrist, and forewarns Christians of latter ages, to guard all they can against seduction.

I grew up in a big Pre Trib Dispensationalist world, in fact, if one were to watch protestant TV one of the biggest experts on “end times” used to be my pastor! Growing up that way, I have read much of the writing on this topic.

For cradle Catholics, I recommend:

https://www.amazon.com/Will-Catholi...atholics+be+left+behind&qid=1587067679&sr=8-1

For those Converts who were deeply stewed in the false end times fear teachings, I suggest:

https://www.amazon.com/Rapture-End-...067818&sprefix=rapture+the+end,aps,215&sr=8-1

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom shall have no end. That is all I need!
 
Felicity said:
and how this was happening only months after
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I don’t think it has a whit to do with the statue. I think it has to do with viral research with possible biological warfare research ends and that the virus accidentally escaped from the level 4 lab within several blocks from the open market. Bats are not indigenous to the Wuhan area; there is a known and identified collector of bats for the lab, which in the past had acknowledged working on bats, and their caves were 800 to 990 kilometers away approximately. And there has been information that bats were not sold at the open market, for whatever that is worth. More and more information is being reported in the press concerning the research going on in the lab.

And if you want historical reference to pandemics, we have had the Spanish flu which killed far more people, and before that the Black Plague.
 
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Felicity said:
It struck me while watching the Holy Father’s Urbi et Orbi and Easter Mass, seeing him almost alone (where in years past there had been thousands), and how this was happening only months after statue of the Pachamama was set up in the Church of Santamaria in Transpontina (near the Vatican).

The phrase “the abomination that causes desolation” was never something that made sense to me until now. Has this come up for anyone else?
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That’s ambiguous to me. Could you flesh it out some more?
 
Felicity said:
It struck me while watching the Holy Father’s Urbi et Orbi and Easter Mass, seeing him almost alone (where in years past there had been thousands), and how this was happening only months after statue of the Pachamama was set up in the Church of Santamaria in Transpontina (near the Vatican). The phrase “the abomination that causes desolation” was never something that made sense to me until now. Has this come up for anyone else?
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The abomination is supposed to stay for a long time, but Panchamama was tossed out really quickly.
 
DillSpears said:
Make of that what you will.
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Sounds like sour grapes?

The evil wooden goddess Pachamama incident -
which was prostrated to in the Vatican Garden in the presence of Francis,
as an Act of Pagan worship,
torpedoed the Amazon Synod?
 
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