Aborted babies go to hell!?!?

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shocktrooper said:
But yes, I understand your point. Maybe the better way is to say, “we pray” for the salvation of the unborn, asking for God’s mercy to be given to them in a super abundant way.
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Padre Pio said to “Pray, hope, and don’t worry.” It is perfectly acceptable to hope in the Mercy of God, because God is love.
 
devoutchristian said:
But it is heresy to believe that God owes them salvation.
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Neither me nor myself ever once used the word “owes,” or alluded to any such attitude.
That seems to be your fabrication. I personally believe God would accept them into heave because he is merciful, not because he “owes.”
 
shocktrooper said:
You don’t have to believe in “limbo” but you are not allowed to believe whatever you want. Your belief, if a faithful Catholic, needs to fall within the walls the Church erects. The Church has said and made doctrine that because of Original Sin, no unbaptized person, including unborn babies, can go to heaven. This is a wall that cannot be toppled by mere personal opinion.

You act as if my own opinion has been argued here when speaking on what the Church has defined for us as doctrine.

I did not say it was a mistake to think children go to heaven. I said it was a mistake to think that God owes anyone anything.

Does baptism effect a change in our relationship with God or is it merely symbolic?
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I am allowed to believe they go to Heaven. Plain and simple. Not that hard to understand.
 
I was taught that unbaptized babies go to Limbo; a place where one who has not committed a mortal sin and it not baptised goes.
 
shocktrooper said:
You don’t have to believe in “limbo” but you are not allowed to believe whatever you want. Your belief, if a faithful Catholic, needs to fall within the walls the Church erects. The Church has said and made doctrine that because of Original Sin, no unbaptized person, including unborn babies, can go to heaven. This is a wall that cannot be toppled by mere personal opinion.
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Why do you keep accusing me of things that aren’t true? I NEVER said I was allwed to believe whatever I wanted. I’m not an idiot. I AM, however, as a Catholic, perfectly allowed to have the belief that unbaptized children go to heaven. Is there something about this that you don’t understand??
You act as if my own opinion has been argued here when speaking on what the Church has defined for us as doctrine.
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I did not say it was a mistake to think children go to heaven. I said it was a mistake to think that God owes anyone anything.
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Again, no one ever said God owes anyone anything in the first place.
Does baptism effect a change in our relationship with God or is it merely symbolic?
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Of course it effects a change. But that doesn’t mean I cannot have the belief that unbaptized children go to Heaven.
 
Jordan_Rizk said:
I was taught that unbaptized babies go to Limbo; a place where one who has not committed a mortal sin and it not baptised goes.
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Pope Pius VI adopted this view against the Synod of Pistoia.
From Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma…
 
Debora123 said:
I am allowed to believe they go to Heaven. Plain and simple. Not that hard to understand.
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If every aborted child goes to heaven, that would mean we’re doing them a favour by aborting them :ehh:
 
Jordan_Rizk said:
If every aborted child goes to heaven, that would mean we’re doing them a favour by aborting them :ehh:
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:ehh::ehh::ehh:

What a strange logic to have.

Same goes for any BAPTIZED child. Does that mean we’re doing baptized infants a favor by committing infanticide?

I don’t follow your point whatsoever.
 
Jeanne_S said:
This possibility just came to mind.I know that those have never come to know the Lord,through no fault of their own(ie third world countries)and die w/othe benefit of baptism,receives God’s mercy.Their fate as far an no possibility of reaching heaven is not a given.Wouldn’t this thinking not also apply to innocent should lost to abortion?:confused:
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Exactly!!
 
I would have had an older brother, but my mom had a miscarriage.
I sure hope he is resting in peace because this is causing me so much anger.

As stated above, can it not be applied to the unborn that it is through no fault of their own they were not baptized. I just simply cannot picture a merciful God letting and unborn go to hell. This is ridiculous. This is causing so much pain and anger to think of my parents waiting to see their child one day only to find out that “oops he wasnt baptized, he is not here”:banghead::nope:
 
Maria1993 said:
I would have had an older brother, but my mom had a miscarriage.
I sure hope he is resting in peace because this is causing me so much anger.
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It makes me mad too.

I believe 100% that your brother is with God.
 
Jordan_Rizk said:
If every aborted child goes to heaven, that would mean we’re doing them a favour by aborting them :ehh:
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Let’s not over think this.Rather let us pray"Lord I believe in your great mercy and am hopeful of your promise for everlasting life." May all babies lost to abortion and miscarriage,through the mercy of God,rest in His arms for eternity.
 
My understanding of the Church’s teaching is that we are born with orginal sin. I’ve never seen were it says we are created by our Father with orginal sin.

An all knowing and all Loving God would not creat a child in his image only to send it to hell. That would make the teachings of Jesus Christ and the New Testement meaningless.
 
Just curious, what does anyone think about the idea of the child either choosing or rejecting God somewhat like the angels did. I don’t see how this is theologically wrong, although I’m no expert. It seems like we could all be happy with this scenario.
 
10gr8kids said:
Just curious, what does anyone think about the idea of the child either choosing or rejecting God somewhat like the angels did. I don’t see how this is theologically wrong, although I’m no expert. It seems like we could all be happy with this scenario.
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Are you referring to the unborn child choosing or rejecting G-d? What would such a child have to go on in making their decision? The angels had so much more knowledge, even more than we adult humans. By contrast, what knowledge about G-d does the young child (let’s assume after birth) have except what their parents teach them or don’t teach them?
 
None of us deserves Heaven - I see a lot of statements approaching Pelagianism in this thread. These are the things we know:


  1. *]Original Sin denies a soul of the Beatific Vision (taught infallibly by the Second Council of Lyons and the Council of Florence, binding on all Catholics)
    *]Those who die with Original Sin along and those who are guilty of personal sin are not punsihed in the same way (Denzinger 693)
    *]Baptism remits Original Sin

    We can’t just brush aside infallible teachings. This doesn’t mean that all the souls of those babies who die in utero are sent to Hell, but it seems untenable to claim that they all go to Heaven. Again, none of us deserves Heaven. God commands some of us to be numbered among His elect (according to the Catholic understanding of predestination), but obviously His Will hasn’t been fully revealed to us.

    This is why abortion is such a terrible crime. Pope Sixtus V included the idea that these poor souls were denied the Beatific Vision in his 1588 condemnation. This doesn’t rule out the idea of a place of natural happiness like Limbo (which would be properly seen as a part of Hell), but we shouldn’t be so quick to discount the words of so many of the successors of St Peter. Of course we can trust in God to be merciful, but His ways are not our ways.
 
meltzerboy said:
Are you referring to the unborn child choosing or rejecting G-d? What would such a child have to go on in making their decision? The angels had so much more knowledge, even more than we adult humans. By contrast, what knowledge does the young child (let’s assume after birth) have except what their parents tell them or don’t tell them about G-d?
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Yes, I know the angels had much more knowledge than we do, and yet some still rejected God. I don’t know of any teaching that says how long the angels were with God before some rebelled. I would think God could give the child any knowledge He wanted to in an instant. 🤷

I don’t believe while on earth we can ever know without a doubt what happens. Just this does not seem impossible to me. It would be a way for us to think about it so as not to be theologically wrong yet still give much hope.
 
10gr8kids said:
Yes, I know the angels had much more knowledge than we do, and yet some still rejected God. I don’t know of any teaching that says how long the angels were with God before some rebelled. I would think God could give the child any knowledge He wanted to in an instant. 🤷

I don’t believe while on earth we can ever know without a doubt what happens. Just this does not seem impossible to me. It would be a way for us to think about it so as not to be theologically wrong yet still give much hope.
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Yes, I agree with what you say here. Personally, as I’ve stated elsewhere on the thread, I believe a just and merciful G-d would not send an unborn child to hell, but again I’m working within a Jewish framework, which does not believe in original sin.
 
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