Abortion and contraception good?

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zipdashsmash

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Hello. I know Catholics like to use Natural Law and divine law to define good behavior, but I cant understand how Catholics can NOT allow for abortion and contraception in the following circumstances.

A woman is pregnant. The pregnancy is ectopic, and if she does nothing she and the baby will die. Is it ok to have an abortion if the circumstance is “One person dies or two people die”?

A couple (my cousin and his wife, so this one hits close to home) have had two babies. Both are autistic. Any subsequent babies will probably be autistic or at least have very many congenital diseases. Is it ok for them to contracept if they still want to communicate love to each other but cant handle more children?

Thanks all.
 
zipdashsmash said:
Hello. I know Catholics like to use Natural Law and divine law to define good behavior, but I cant understand how Catholics can NOT allow for abortion and contraception in the following circumstances.

I did not understand either…but keep asking questions and researching Church teachings while praying for the Holy Spirit to help you understand. It worked for me:thumbsup:

A woman is pregnant. The pregnancy is ectopic, and if she does nothing she and the baby will die. Is it ok to have an abortion if the circumstance is “One person dies or two people die”?

The best way to look at this (in my opinion) is that a baby is a baby is a baby. It doesn’t matter how old.
** So, if the woman had a one year old little girl named Sarah, would it be ok for mom to murder Sarah if that would save her own life?**
** If your answer is NO then you can see why abortion is always wrong. It is always** wrong to murder a baby, no matter how old.

A couple (my cousin and his wife, so this one hits close to home) have had two babies. Both are autistic. Any subsequent babies will probably be autistic or at least have very many congenital diseases. Is it ok for them to contracept if they still want to communicate love to each other but cant handle more children?

Their children are loved by God and hopefully by their parents. They are unique persons with a unique purpose here on earth. Any subsequent babies would also be just as loved and just as unique.

But I can totally understand why they may be afraid to have more children. That is why God allows for the practice of NFP when couples have a serious/just reason to avoid conception. What those reasons are are between the couple and God.

Malia

Thanks all.
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Another thought about the ectopic pregnancy scenario…
No one, not even a doctor, can say for sure what will happen in any given suituation. There is no “the mom and baby will both die for sure”. We must trust in God, He can perform miracles if He so chooses.
**And an ectopic pregnancy can be treated if you are Catholic. The entire fallopian tube can be removed with the baby in it and it is not an abortion (the deliberate killing of the unborn) but the baby dies as a side effect of a life saving surgery. **
That one is still hard for me to fully understand though and I don’t think I could have the surgery myself knowing that it would kill my baby…but it’s not sinful.
 
zipdashsmash said:
Hello. I know Catholics like to use Natural Law and divine law to define good behavior, but I cant understand how Catholics can NOT allow for abortion and contraception in the following circumstances.
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Abortion and contraception are always wrong. There is no circumstance that can “justify” a wrong action.
zipdashsmash said:
A woman is pregnant. The pregnancy is ectopic, and if she does nothing she and the baby will die. Is it ok to have an abortion if the circumstance is “One person dies or two people die”?
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Ectopic pregnancy can be a serious condition that requires medical intervention, but in many cases a woman doesn’t even know she’s had an ectopic pregnancy. It is not “always” life threatening or even “usually” life threatening so it is a mischaracterization of ectopic pregnancies as a “one person dies or two people die” scenario.

In cases where the fallopian tube is in danger of rupturing, there are two available treatments. One is morally acceptable, one is not, since both the woman and the baby are the patients in this situation:

(1) Removal of the fallopian tube that is infected. This is not an abortion, even though the baby does die as a result of the procedure. The purpose of the procedure is to remove the diseased tissues, not to kill the baby. Unfortunately, there is no medical way-- at this time-- to save the baby by transfering it to the uterus. Were there a way, the moral obligation would be to save both patients.

(2) Chemical abortion-- taking pills that cause an abortion is never acceptable because the purpose is not to treat the diseased tissue of the fallopian tube but rather to kill the baby.

Number (1) above falls under the Principle of Double Effect-- which I suggets you read up on. This is similar to a pregnant woman seeking treatment for cancer even though it is a foreseen consequence that they baby may, or will, die.
zipdashsmash said:
A couple (my cousin and his wife, so this one hits close to home) have had two babies. Both are autistic. Any subsequent babies will probably be autistic or at least have very many congenital diseases. Is it ok for them to contracept if they still want to communicate love to each other but cant handle more children?
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No, it is not acceptable to contracept for any reason.

The Church teaches that a couple who has a just reason to avoid pregnancy may do so. Therefore, there is no problem in the scenario you present.

Couples in such circumstances may use periodic continence during the fertile periods of the woman’s cycle and use the infertile times for the marriage act.
 
Natural Family Planning is far more reliable than any contraceptive and has no side effects. Your friends may have a moral reason for avoiding a pregnancy, so they should use NFP. There’s no pill to remember (and no side effects from the hormones) and no condom to risk breaking.
I don’t know what it is like to raise two autistic children. My own two children are a handful without autism. Depending on how severe the autism is, however, they may eventually learn to function on their own.
Incidentally, i hope that the amount of care that goes into special needs kids is what made you ask this. It almost sounded like you were trying to belittle the status of special needs children with the ole’ quality of life argument. I might avoid more children for a time because of financial responsibilities or health reasons, but i would never not want a child just because they had special needs. They deserve life and love just as much if not more than a sinner like me.
 
An interesting debate. I have four children, two girls, two boys, two pairs of blue eyes, two pairs of brown eyes, two with autism, two without.
I’m not dismissing or belittling the autism diagnoses or what it can mean for many parents, but if you could see them, I suspect that your opinions might be tempered, or at least I would hope so.
Best wishes
whitterer-autism.blogspot.com
 
Feanaro_s_Wife said:
Another thought about the ectopic pregnancy scenario…
No one, not even a doctor, can say for sure what will happen in any given suituation. There is no “the mom and baby will both die for sure”. We must trust in God, He can perform miracles if He so chooses.
And an ectopic pregnancy can be treated if you are Catholic. The entire fallopian tube can be removed with the baby in it and it is not an abortion (the deliberate killing of the unborn) but the baby dies as a side effect of a life saving surgery.
That one is still hard for me to fully understand though and I don’t think I could have the surgery myself knowing that it would kill my baby…but it’s not sinful.
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I have to agree, for myself I died at 11 yrs of age when my parents prayed for life to come back to me the Drs told them they were stupid I would be a cabbage if I lived.
I contracted meningitis and once again I’d be better of dead. An operation that should kill me or what ever the Drs couldn’t say. When latte I got married the Dr told my wife and I that we should have her tubs tied since another baby would probably kill my wife. We said no and latter our last baby was the easiest she had. To GOD give all glory, amen:bowdown2:
God bless:clapping:
littleone:dancing:
 
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