Abortion and Excommunication

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I know a girl who says she is Catholic, but she isn’t religious (lapsed).

I also know that she has had two abortions, so this got me to thinking. Was she automatically excommunicated? Even if almost nobody knows about the abortions?

How would someone know if they were excommunicated?
 
Was she automatically excommunicated? Even if almost nobody knows about the abortions?

How would someone know if they were excommunicated?
Yes.
Yes.
One would have to know the law. I think the Church has been pretty public about abortions leading to automatic excommunications.
 
From the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 1398 A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

Latae sententiae is an automatic excommunication that occurs from the person committing the act.
 
I often wondered about that.I knew someone once that had an abortion and then got married in church.Would excommunication affect the sacrament of matrimony?
 
I often wondered about that.I knew someone once that had an abortion and then got married in church.Would excommunication affect the sacrament of matrimony?
Yes. She would not be able to partake in any sacrament until the excommunication has been lifted by her bishop.
 
Well, yes, she is excommunicate. Unless she had the abortions before she was 16.
 
I know a girl who says she is Catholic, but she isn’t religious (lapsed).

I also know that she has had two abortions, so this got me to thinking. Was she automatically excommunicated? Even if almost nobody knows about the abortions?
That’s a definite maybe.

If she was 18 or older and knew that she would be automatically excommunicated, then she is.

Canon 1323 exempts under 16 year olds.

Canon 1324 requires mitigation of ecclesiastic penalties for minors 16 and 17 years old .
 
There is a lot of gray area here. Most priests these days can lift any excommunication for abortion. The circumstances surrounding the abortion are also part of it. Was she fully aware of the canon law? I would reccomend she contace her local Rachel’s Vineyard chapter and ask for counseling or when the next retreat is.
 
I know a girl who says she is Catholic, but she isn’t religious (lapsed).

I also know that she has had two abortions, so this got me to thinking. Was she automatically excommunicated? Even if almost nobody knows about the abortions?

How would someone know if they were excommunicated?
To incur the excommunication, the person much meet certain criteria

a. They must be in communion with the Catholic Church. You can’t excommunicate someone who is not inside in the first place.

b. The individual must know that the penalty is excommunication. The Church has never imposed excommunication on unsuspecting souls. Just because the Church has said that excommunication is automatic, does not mean that everyone knows this or understands what an excommunication is. You folks have to remember that if you’re on this thread, it’s because you know something about Catholicism and you’re interested in knowing more. But you must be careful not to project your knowledge and your desire to understand, on others. Not everyone has the same knowledge or the same desire.

The Church is a merciful mother. She does not impose penalties on those who do not understand them. The purpose of an excommunication is medicinal. Giving someone this medicine, without their knowledge has no chance of achieving the desired effect, which is to rattle the person back to his or her senses.

c. As has already been said, the Church does not excommunicate children.

d. Finally, abortion is a very delicate subject. I know, because that’s what I do for a living. No, I do not perform abortions. I run the pro-life ministry to fathers for an entire diocese. Nine out of the 10 people whom I see are not excommunicated. The pressure to abort is almost crippling. These young people often find themselves in situations where they have no idea which side is up, because everyone around them is feeding them horrifying thoughts about how hellish their lives will be if they have this baby. At some point, these young people buckle, because there is no one there to give them any hope.

That’s why I run this ministry for the young men and not so young. If I can get to them before the mothers of their children have an abortion, I can usually alleviate the fear and hopelessness that overcomes them. Many women will back down, if the father steps up to the plate.

I wish that more Catholics would focus less on the penalties and canons around abortion and focus more on the conditions that lead to abortion. Threatening with an excommunication has very little effect when your parents are telling you that you have blown your future, when your friends are telling you that the boy who got you pregnant is sleeping with another girl, when the girl who is carrying your child is sleeping with other boys making you want to walk away, because your not sure if you’re the father.

When you’re an immigrant, unemployed, don’t have medical insurance and have several children, carrying a child can be terrifying. You need someone who understands and who promises you to be there and offer you the material and emotional assistance that you need. Which is what our ministry offers. We walk with the fathers as their brothers, from the moment that they discover that they are fathers until the child is 24 months old. If you alleviate the anxiety, the poverty, and present the other side, that there is hope for the parents and the child, then you can prevent many abortions.

The word excommunication means something to those who would never have an abortion in the first place, people like you.

Finally NEVER NEVER tell anyone that they or someone they know are excommunicated, because they had an abortion, especially not on an internet thread. Unless you ask all of the right questions, you have no way of knowing. To many people, especially younger people, who have had abortions, with no knowledge about excommunications, suddenly being told that they are outside of the Church translates into, “You’re not wanted.” The reaction is one of anger and resentment, because they don’t know how to cope with the guilt and what they perceive as rejection. This is the kind of information that must be shared by someone who knows how to do it and will follow-up with the healing process.

Post Abortion Sydrome is very serious. Telling someone, whom you don’t know, that he or she is excommunicated can be just the thing that this person needs to finish pushing them over the edge.

The best answer to this question is to say that there are times when the person is excommunicated and times when he or she is not. The thing to do is to approach either a priest who knows something about abortion or the diocesan pro-life office. Every diocese has one with very well trained people to answer this and other related questions correctly.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
Amen! The most compassionate and loving message I’ve seen on this forum about post abortive and I know! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!
 
To incur the excommunication, the person much meet certain criteria

a. They must be in communion with the Catholic Church. You can’t excommunicate someone who is not inside in the first place.

b. The individual must know that the penalty is excommunication. The Church has never imposed excommunication on unsuspecting souls. Just because the Church has said that excommunication is automatic, does not mean that everyone knows this or understands what an excommunication is. You folks have to remember that if you’re on this thread, it’s because you know something about Catholicism and you’re interested in knowing more. But you must be careful not to project your knowledge and your desire to understand, on others. Not everyone has the same knowledge or the same desire.

The Church is a merciful mother. She does not impose penalties on those who do not understand them. The purpose of an excommunication is medicinal. Giving someone this medicine, without their knowledge has no chance of achieving the desired effect, which is to rattle the person back to his or her senses.

c. As has already been said, the Church does not excommunicate children.

d. Finally, abortion is a very delicate subject. I know, because that’s what I do for a living. No, I do not perform abortions. I run the pro-life ministry to fathers for an entire diocese. Nine out of the 10 people whom I see are not excommunicated. The pressure to abort is almost crippling. These young people often find themselves in situations where they have no idea which side is up, because everyone around them is feeding them horrifying thoughts about how hellish their lives will be if they have this baby. At some point, these young people buckle, because there is no one there to give them any hope.

That’s why I run this ministry for the young men and not so young. If I can get to them before the mothers of their children have an abortion, I can usually alleviate the fear and hopelessness that overcomes them. Many women will back down, if the father steps up to the plate.

I wish that more Catholics would focus less on the penalties and canons around abortion and focus more on the conditions that lead to abortion. Threatening with an excommunication has very little effect when your parents are telling you that you have blown your future, when your friends are telling you that the boy who got you pregnant is sleeping with another girl, when the girl who is carrying your child is sleeping with other boys making you want to walk away, because your not sure if you’re the father.

When you’re an immigrant, unemployed, don’t have medical insurance and have several children, carrying a child can be terrifying. You need someone who understands and who promises you to be there and offer you the material and emotional assistance that you need. Which is what our ministry offers. We walk with the fathers as their brothers, from the moment that they discover that they are fathers until the child is 24 months old. If you alleviate the anxiety, the poverty, and present the other side, that there is hope for the parents and the child, then you can prevent many abortions.

The word excommunication means something to those who would never have an abortion in the first place, people like you.

Finally NEVER NEVER tell anyone that they or someone they know are excommunicated, because they had an abortion, especially not on an internet thread. Unless you ask all of the right questions, you have no way of knowing. To many people, especially younger people, who have had abortions, with no knowledge about excommunications, suddenly being told that they are outside of the Church translates into, “You’re not wanted.” The reaction is one of anger and resentment, because they don’t know how to cope with the guilt and what they perceive as rejection. This is the kind of information that must be shared by someone who knows how to do it and will follow-up with the healing process.

Post Abortion Sydrome is very serious. Telling someone, whom you don’t know, that he or she is excommunicated can be just the thing that this person needs to finish pushing them over the edge.

The best answer to this question is to say that there are times when the person is excommunicated and times when he or she is not. The thing to do is to approach either a priest who knows something about abortion or the diocesan pro-life office. Every diocese has one with very well trained people to answer this and other related questions correctly.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
Wow… Best answer. God bless you, I’m praying for you and your ministry. Merry Christmas!
 
Yes, abortion, other than therapeutic, does mean automatic excommunication. Bro. JR’s post is well worth reading, and his advice is to be followed when talking to somebody who has had an abortion.

As mentioned, abortion is a delicate subject that leaves the woman wounded. The Church has a program called Project Rachel. Project Rachel is an outreach program directed toward women who have had abortions for whatever reason. Project Rachel is aimed toward healing the woman and reconciling her with the Church.

hopeafterabortion.com/

noparh.org/projectrachels.html
Project Rachel is an outreach of the Catholic Church, but it is open to anyone who is struggling after an abortion loss. It is able to help women and men; parents, grandparents, siblings, friends and others whose lives have been impacted by an abortion loss.
 
To incur the excommunication, the person much meet certain criteria

a. They must be in communion with the Catholic Church. You can’t excommunicate someone who is not inside in the first place.

b. The individual must know that the penalty is excommunication. The Church has never imposed excommunication on unsuspecting souls. Just because the Church has said that excommunication is automatic, does not mean that everyone knows this or understands what an excommunication is. You folks have to remember that if you’re on this thread, it’s because you know something about Catholicism and you’re interested in knowing more. But you must be careful not to project your knowledge and your desire to understand, on others. Not everyone has the same knowledge or the same desire.

The Church is a merciful mother. She does not impose penalties on those who do not understand them. The purpose of an excommunication is medicinal. Giving someone this medicine, without their knowledge has no chance of achieving the desired effect, which is to rattle the person back to his or her senses.

c. As has already been said, the Church does not excommunicate children.

d. Finally, abortion is a very delicate subject. I know, because that’s what I do for a living. No, I do not perform abortions. I run the pro-life ministry to fathers for an entire diocese. Nine out of the 10 people whom I see are not excommunicated. The pressure to abort is almost crippling. These young people often find themselves in situations where they have no idea which side is up, because everyone around them is feeding them horrifying thoughts about how hellish their lives will be if they have this baby. At some point, these young people buckle, because there is no one there to give them any hope.

That’s why I run this ministry for the young men and not so young. If I can get to them before the mothers of their children have an abortion, I can usually alleviate the fear and hopelessness that overcomes them. Many women will back down, if the father steps up to the plate.

I wish that more Catholics would focus less on the penalties and canons around abortion and focus more on the conditions that lead to abortion. Threatening with an excommunication has very little effect when your parents are telling you that you have blown your future, when your friends are telling you that the boy who got you pregnant is sleeping with another girl, when the girl who is carrying your child is sleeping with other boys making you want to walk away, because your not sure if you’re the father.

When you’re an immigrant, unemployed, don’t have medical insurance and have several children, carrying a child can be terrifying. You need someone who understands and who promises you to be there and offer you the material and emotional assistance that you need. Which is what our ministry offers. We walk with the fathers as their brothers, from the moment that they discover that they are fathers until the child is 24 months old. If you alleviate the anxiety, the poverty, and present the other side, that there is hope for the parents and the child, then you can prevent many abortions.

The word excommunication means something to those who would never have an abortion in the first place, people like you.

Finally NEVER NEVER tell anyone that they or someone they know are excommunicated, because they had an abortion, especially not on an internet thread. Unless you ask all of the right questions, you have no way of knowing. To many people, especially younger people, who have had abortions, with no knowledge about excommunications, suddenly being told that they are outside of the Church translates into, “You’re not wanted.” The reaction is one of anger and resentment, because they don’t know how to cope with the guilt and what they perceive as rejection. This is the kind of information that must be shared by someone who knows how to do it and will follow-up with the healing process.

Post Abortion Sydrome is very serious. Telling someone, whom you don’t know, that he or she is excommunicated can be just the thing that this person needs to finish pushing them over the edge.

The best answer to this question is to say that there are times when the person is excommunicated and times when he or she is not. The thing to do is to approach either a priest who knows something about abortion or the diocesan pro-life office. Every diocese has one with very well trained people to answer this and other related questions correctly.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF
Great answer. This is what I was taught.

What a charitable post. If only all of us were that charitable.

I remember a thread on CAF that asked the question should women who have had abortions be allowed in ProLife ministry. Their point was that as murderers, they do not have the right to be involved.

I couldn’t believe it.
 
Great answer. This is what I was taught.

What a charitable post. If only all of us were that charitable.

I remember a thread on CAF that asked the question should women who have had abortions be allowed in ProLife ministry. Their point was that as murderers, they do not have the right to be involved.

I couldn’t believe it.
Only if the bishop has delegated that faculty to the priests. Some have. Some haven’t.
 
Only if the bishop has delegated that faculty to the priests. Some have. Some haven’t.
I’m sure you’re right. But I was told that these days most Bishops have in fact delegated it to at least one Priest in the parish because abortion is so rampant these days.
 
Great answer. This is what I was taught.

What a charitable post. If only all of us were that charitable.

I remember a thread on CAF that asked the question should women who have had abortions be allowed in ProLife ministry. Their point was that as murderers, they do not have the right to be involved.

I couldn’t believe it.
Some of the best pro-life advocates are those who know first hand the pain of abortion. They can speak from experience. Those who actually performed abortions can testify to their conversion experience and the healing forgiveness of God’s love.

An important point from Bro. JR’s post is that culpability is dependent on knowledge.
 
Yes, abortion, other than therapeutic, does mean automatic excommunication. Bro. JR’s post is well worth reading, and his advice is to be followed when talking to somebody who has had an abortion.

As mentioned, abortion is a delicate subject that leaves the woman wounded. The Church has a program called Project Rachel. Project Rachel is an outreach program directed toward women who have had abortions for whatever reason. Project Rachel is aimed toward healing the woman and reconciling her with the Church.

hopeafterabortion.com/

noparh.org/projectrachels.html
Project Rachel is an outreach of the Catholic Church, but it is open to anyone who is struggling after an abortion loss. It is able to help women and men; parents, grandparents, siblings, friends and others whose lives have been impacted by an abortion loss.
Just to clarify, morally . . . no abortion is ever therapeutic, because a child is not a medical problem.
Only if the bishop has delegated that faculty to the priests. Some have. Some haven’t.
Two points:
  1. Every cleric (deacon, priest or bishop) should be able to determine if the person has incurred an excommunication. You do not need delegation for this ministry. We tend to confuse spiritual direction with confession. They’re two different ministries. The former does not require a priest or faculties of any kind, only confession does. The problem is that many clerics, including bishops, are not well versed in the nuances of canon law, since most have theology degrees, not law degrees. In theology, canon law is studied for two semesters at best, sometimes a third, because canon law is not theology. It’s law.
  2. In the USA every diocesan priest can absolve from the sin of abortion and lift the excommunication. Around the world, every priest who is an exempt religious can absolve and lift the excommunication. It comes with the the right of exemption.
Have a Blessed Christmas!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
Just to clarify, morally . . . no abortion is ever therapeutic, because a child is not a medical problem.
Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
I agree that a child is not a medical problem. When I refer to therapeutic abortion, I am referring to those situations in which both the life of the mother and the child are endangered. I was taught that the mother’s life, in such instances, has priority since “the child cannot live without the mother.” If at all possible, both lives are to be preserved.
Abortion is a medical term. It can include natural abortions (miscarriages) and the termination of a tubal pregnancy.
Years ago, I found the word aborticide in a 1957 edition of Webster’s Dictionary. An aborticide is “the (then illegal) destruction of the fetus within the mother’s womb.” It is a term that is no longer in the dictionary, but none the less more closely describes what we as pro-lifers oppose.
 
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