Abortion and love

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I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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So we should allow women to kill their child as some sort of moral test? Why should we restrict this test to women? Why not pass a law saying that men can kill their children up to the age of 10? That would test their morality as well.

By the way this is one of the most bizarre rationalizations for abortion remaining legal I have ever run across.
 
I don’t support abortion at all, but was thinking philosophically the other day and just thought about that argument, but thanks you’re right, just had to think in another direction
 
rjrjrj said:
I don’t support abortion at all, but was thinking philosophically the other day and just thought about that argument, but thanks you’re right, just had to think in another direction
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By the way Estesbob, if you are a catholic, I must point out that you should be more kind and gentle in your answers instead of assuming and attacking for the sake of argument, those type of answers may “scare off” someone trying to get closer to God
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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No it isn’t loving… its like parents taking off the internet filters for his porn addicted child and telling them that you love them because you are giving them the choice to sin or not… We can’t force anyone to do anything, what we can do though is fight for what we as Christian Catholics believe in and try to help others by blocking the way to sin.
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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Once life becomes cheap and a precedence is set it comes down to “who gets to decide who gets to live”? Permitting abortion to be a moral option is one sided and does not take into account that the person who’s life is on the line and is most innocent, the baby, gets no voice in the matter. And the baby by evidence of its continued daily growth is progressively saying ever more loudly “I want to live”.

James
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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God also forgives sin. Does this mean I should test God on it, and sin with wild abandon?
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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This is wrong hence even now all individuals have freedom to kill anybody at anytime. That is true if you start thinking about it, you could just take a gun and shoot and nothing would stop you unless the person is very high in the hierarchy then you might want to find out some better way to kill them. But you can kill people.

This is about just society based upon Gods law. If you want your society to punish justly on criminalities that happen you must have fair laws with treat all individuals as equals and give them certain rights… Mother still has a choice even abortion is illegal, it is just that when it is illegal the society gives a hint about it not being good to begin with. Now society is just saying is OK to kill your own baby…
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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no, the choosing ended after the sex, after the child has been conceived, there should be no choice, because that child’s right to life, overrides the mothers right to choose,

we make these laws because we *cannot * sit back and watch the innocent get killed, it is our moral obligation to help others and save souls, to allow abortion would be the same as allowing any murder,
it’s just a matter of seeing and truly understanding the value of life,
and when i think about a child being killed in the womb, i see no difference then if that child was killed outside the womb,

you have to understand, that if we don’t stand up and take charge, if we don’t speak out strongly about this, then eventually it won’t even be seen as a big deal, abortion won’t be such a hard choice to make, because the thoughts won’t even enter their minds.

someone *has *to stand up for the innocent who cannot speak for themselves,
we must save the unborn with as much urgency and diligence as we would with any other person in life threatening danger.

ok? i hope that helps you to better understand it.
tc.
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve heard many times that God allows evil to exist because He loves us and He allows us to choose between good and evil. Now, in the elections coming up, it is obvious that one does not want to allow a woman to choose an abortion and be responsible for the abortion of her baby, so one would vote against abortion. But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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**If, back in the 1970s, if the Supreme Court would have left abortion alone but made it a medical choice bettween the woman and her physician, the medical profession would have already “figured it out” and we wouldn’t be in the predicament that we are in today. Most of the medical profession has already “figured it out” as the vast majority of physicians will not perform abortions.

However, once the abortion issue became political and a ‘right’, then it is open to public debate. In the secular society we live in today, it would be difficult to negate abortion rights for women. The Christian response (and more effective, in my opinion) is to continue the campaign of changing a woman’s mind against procuring an abortion and leading her to an understanding of her decision and who this little life really is inside of her.

One of the candidates had the audacity to proclaim that one of the first acts he will do when he takes office is to sign the Freedom of Choice Bill which will effectively negate any hindrance of abortion rights for women from the moment of conception to post-partial birth and abortions which result in living fetuses. In other words, abortion rights will now be extended to include infanticide.
 
notsmart said:
God also forgives sin. Does this mean I should test God on it, and sin with wild abandon?
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Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 
rjrjrj said:
I’ve . But thinking of the same philosophy, if we allow women to choose for herself, isn’t it a way of loving them and allowing them to choose between good and evil, the same way that God allows us to choose between good and evil?
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by your argument, we should establish no laws whatever, and allow each individual to make their own choices on whether to speed, drive drunk, kill people, beat their wives, torch their neighbor’s property, deal drugs etc.
 
The priest at our parish made a very profound statement " If I say that I love you and don’t tell you the truth, how can I say that I love you?" As catholics, we know abortion is intrinsicly evil, and a mortal sin, there is no question about it. Knowing this, how can you say that you love someone and support anything other than the truth? If married, part of our job as a spouse is to help each other get to heaven. Abortion is a mortal sin, if we allow someone to have an abortion, we not holding up our responsibility.
 
Interesting question… but here is my humble opinion… I am not as concerned about providing a “moral test” for anyone when a human life is at stake… especially one that can’t defend themselves. We have a greater moral imperative to defend the members of our society that can’t defend themselves. If this were about say stealing a piece of gum from a bin somewhere… where the owner of said bin understands the risk… fine, but when it comes to killing… sorry, have to defend life for a person who can’t speak up for themselves… just my opinion
 
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