Abortion and politics

[Major_Minor]

First let me state that I am against abortion of any kind… but being a recent Catholic convert (Well, 6-7 years, anyway) One thing puzzles me about politics and abortion.

Abortion is legal: This does not change whether there is a Republican or Democrat in office… so what is the difference? What did a vote for Bush (Against abortion) do? It didn’t change anything… you could still have a legal abortion in this country during his administration.
Yes, he kept certain stem cell research at bay, but that’s a pretty tiny part of the picture.

 

[Geremia]

Abortion is legal: This does not change whether there is a Republican or Democrat in office… so what is the difference?

It’s a matter of principles and maintaining one’s values. Who you vote for and why does say a lot about your values.

What did a vote for Bush (Against abortion) do?

Bush did sign the ban on partial-birth abortions, but whether that was just a token gesture is entirely possible. It is interesting to note that every first lady since Roe v. Wade has been pro-abortion. I see politics as simply a barometer of the public sentiment, which is currently mostly pro-abortion. Law is different, whether being a just extension of natural law or being adversely affected by politics such that “it deflects from the law of nature” and “is no longer a law but a perversion of law,” as in the case of legalized murder of the unborn.

 

[dmelosi]

First let me state that I am against abortion of any kind… but being a recent Catholic convert (Well, 6-7 years, anyway) One thing puzzles me about politics and abortion.

Abortion is legal: This does not change whether there is a Republican or Democrat in office… so what is the difference? What did a vote for Bush (Against abortion) do? It didn’t change anything… you could still have a legal abortion in this country during his administration.
Yes, he kept certain stem cell research at bay, but that’s a pretty tiny part of the picture.

The very obvious way to tell is by the supreme court justices nominated and confirmed by Bush. Don’t you think that is pretty important? I am sure you have to know that a president cannot simply sign a paper and make abortion illegal.

Why do you think NARAL rates politicians? Look at their website to see who they think can make a difference. Do you think it is a coincidence that there support is overwhelmingly democratic?

Do you think it matters that Obama argued that if an abortion failed that it was ok to withhold medical care because the original intent was to kill the unborn baby?

 

[Major_Minor]

" I am sure you have to know that a president cannot simply sign a paper and make abortion illegal."

Then what >is< the difference?
This is the question I am asking: What is the difference for voting Dem or Rep if nothing will change?

As Geremia said it measures or acts as a barometer of how many people are against abortion, but if nothing changes then what is the essential difference?
How is voting Democrat -supporting- abortion or voting Republican -stopping- anything when it’s already in place and not likely to change?

You needn’t worry about my being pro-choice or anything like that …I’m certainly not.
…and many years ago I was a Dem, but almost every stance they make now repulses me… but the thing I just can’t wrap my head around is there is a lot of literature out there that let’s just say -infers strongly- that for a Catholic to vote Dem. being the same thing as supporting Abortion… HOW?

 

[dmelosi]

" I am sure you have to know that a president cannot simply sign a paper and make abortion illegal."

Then what >is< the difference?
This is the question I am asking: What is the difference for voting Dem or Rep if nothing will change?

As Geremia said it measures or acts as a barometer of how many people are against abortion, but if nothing changes then what is the essential difference?
How is voting Democrat -supporting- abortion or voting Republican -stopping- anything when it’s already in place and not likely to change?

You needn’t worry about my being pro-choice or anything like that …I’m certainly not.
…and many years ago I was a Dem, but almost every stance they make now repulses me… but the thing I just can’t wrap my head around is there is a lot of literature out there that let’s just say -infers strongly- that for a Catholic to vote Dem. being the same thing as supporting Abortion… HOW?

The democratic party in its platform states very clearly that it is pro choice. The republican party states very clearly in its platform that it is pro life.

Who would you rather have in power? A party that says they will do what it takes to promote abortion on demand?

 

[mary_bobo]

A point to consider here is that at this time, abortion is the law of the land. That will not change until the right case comes to the Supreme Court and then they agree to here it. How far do you think pro-life will get with judges appointed by a Democrat president? Not very.

 

[Geremia]

The democratic party in its platform states very clearly that it is pro choice. The republican party states very clearly in its platform that it is pro life.

And politicians are two-faced, so? I think the OP is trying to say that there is very little practical difference because both parties have born equally bad fruit, which I don’t think is true. As another poster said, look at who NARAL (pro-abortion) and NRLC (National Right to Life) endorse; it is almost exclusively Democrats in the former case and almost exclusively Republicans in the latter (click links for lists of candidates). Look at who the abortion promoters fear will make their profits decline, and I can tell you they are much more afraid of us pro-lifers than we are of them because they are liars preoccupied with stained consciences and we freely fight for the truth.

 

[CMatt25]

The democratic party in its platform states very clearly that it is pro choice. The republican party states very clearly in its platform that it is pro life.

Who would you rather have in power? A party that says they will do what it takes to promote abortion on demand?

Pro life? That’s a funny one when used by conservatives in the abortion debate no matter whom it applies to, whether to Republican or Dem, Catholics, Southern Baptists, or whomever. War, human beings not having adquate affordable health care coverage, homeless, hungry. Life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

 

[dmelosi]

Pro life? That’s a funny one when used by conservatives in the abortion debate no matter whom it applies to, whether to Republican or Dem, Catholics, Southern Baptists, or whomever. War, human beings not having adquate affordable health care coverage, homeless, hungry. Life does not begin at conception and end at birth.

Pro life means against abortion.
Pro choice means for abortion.

No matter how those that are so married to their political party they try to change what it means to ease their guilt on what they are really doing, promoting abortion.

 

[CMatt25]

Pro life means against abortion.
Pro choice means for abortion.

No matter how those that are so married to their political party they try to change what it means to ease their guilt on what they are really doing, promoting abortion.

Who came up with those definitions? You have to look deeper than one issue. Pro life certainly does not entail life only when found in the womb. And it is a misnomer to label everyone pro choice as pro abortion.

Pro choice means just what it says. Pro choice. And “pro life” as you define it should actually be called anti choice.

Believe it or not and I know you don’t believe it. But there are actually folks who while believing abortion should be safe and legal in certain cases for various reasons, would themselves never have an abortion and who believe in working to make them rare. That of course though partly entails making certain there are programs intact for life after birth. But one must get away from the Catholic Church’s rigid idea of “pro life” and look beyond the womb for that to occur. God bless you and peace.

 

[estesbob]

First let me state that I am against abortion of any kind… but being a recent Catholic convert (Well, 6-7 years, anyway) One thing puzzles me about politics and abortion.

Abortion is legal: This does not change whether there is a Republican or Democrat in office… so what is the difference? What did a vote for Bush (Against abortion) do? It didn’t change anything… you could still have a legal abortion in this country during his administration.
Yes, he kept certain stem cell research at bay, but that’s a pretty tiny part of the picture.

Since the USSC imposed Abortion in the Country all a Presdient can do is find ways to limit it. Note that in his 8 years in office Bush did not allow one penny of US funds to go to Overseas Abortion providers. Obama released these funds on his third day in office.

You can find a comprehensive list of President bush’s pro-life acomplishments here:

christiangallery.com/WestList.htm

 

[estesbob]

Pro life means against abortion.
Pro choice means for abortion.

No matter how those that are so married to their political party they try to change what it means to ease their guilt on what they are really doing, promoting abortion.

Regardless of the protests of the pro-abortion crowd if no one is pro-abortion how do we account for 1.2 million of them a year.

 

[CMatt25]

Regardless of the protests of the pro-abortion crowd if no one is pro-abortion how do we account for 1.2 million of them a year.

Uh God’s free will and by living in a pluralistic democracy with different faiths and beliefs on this issue and not living in a theocracy.

 

[dmelosi]

Who came up with those definitions? You have to look deeper than one issue. Pro life certainly does not entail life only when found in the womb. And it is a misnomer to label everyone pro choice as pro abortion.

If you are not against something you are for it. This is a life and death issue, wouldn’t you agree?

Pro choice means just what it says. Pro choice. And “pro life” as you define it should actually be called anti choice.

Even wikipedia defines it as being against abortion. Only very loyal democrats try to change the meaning to ease their guilt for blindly following their party.

Believe it or not and I know you don’t believe it. But there are actually folks who while believing abortion should be safe and legal in certain cases for various reasons, would themselves never have an abortion and who believe in working to make them rare.

Why would I not believe this? It still is a life and death issue.

That of course though partly entails making certain there are programs intact for life after birth. But one must get away from the Catholic Church’s rigid idea of “pro life” and look beyond the womb for that to occur. God bless you and peace.

The small town that I live in has 2 organizations outside of the church that help care for the mother and baby after birth. Both organizations are led by conservatives that realize that the democratic party is the party of death. The idea that conservatives do nothing is insulting and couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[WatchingMedia]

In 1973 United States Supreme Court made abortion legal in the US - Roe v Wade
(This is why the moral and ethical character of Court nominees are important.)

However, under Obama and the Dems new health care bill of 2010, abortion will be funded by taxpayers under women’s health..
Also there is no longer a conscience clause for protecting those in the health care and charitable fields. Thus removing “Freedom of Religion” using discrimination laws against these people.
Obama has his apppointed Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, speaking at United Nations in favor of abortion under womens health care.
Also Obama is already making appointments for his “Death Panels” - the government deciding who will and you willl not be given health care based upon “cost”.

The direct assault on life caused by Obama and Dem party to be called: “Party of Death”.

Caution when voting - scrutinize each candidate individually. He/she must stand on his/her own merits not merely on Party.
State and Local elections are important as well, do not neglect them.

God created each of us at conception. Thou shall not kill.

ehd.org/movies.php?mov_id=44

 

[CMatt25]

If you are not against something you are for it. This is a life and death issue, wouldn’t you agree?

Even wikipedia defines it as being against abortion. Only very loyal democrats try to change the meaning to ease their guilt for blindly following their party.

Why would I not believe this? It still is a life and death issue.

The small town that I live in has 2 organizations outside of the church that help care for the mother and baby after birth. Both organizations are led by conservatives that realize that the democratic party is the party of death. The idea that conservatives do nothing is insulting and couldn’t be more wrong.

What I would agree with is there are many life and death issues.

Supporting the death penalty is certainly a life and death issue. And many conservatives have no qualms about doing just that under the guise of innocent vs non innocent. They nevertheless play God and take a life already born. No question whether they were a viable breathing human.being. They were until they are killed by lethal injection or sending volts of electricity thru their bodies. This despite Christ’s admonishments that we have heard an eye for eye but He says not so fast.

The CC plays lip service to being against capital punishment in comparison to abortion.

War? Definitely a life and death issue. Perhaps that’s why Christ said blessed are the peacemakers and not once directly mentioned the word abortion.

Being hungry, thirsty? Life and death issues as well. Homeless? Sick? Can’t afford adequate healthcare coverage? Having to choose between food on the table for your children or taking your medications? Being denied healthcare coverage because of a pre-existing condition?

No wonder Christ taught us what He did in Matt 25:35-46. Life and death issues.

I do not blindly pledge allegiance to any human whether in a party or any institution. But I have no guilt in following what Christ so clearly taught. God bless and peace.

 

[CathFaith1]

But there are actually folks who while believing abortion should be safe and legal in certain cases for various reasons, would themselves never have an abortion.

And they need to repent and convert. They support baby killing. Plain and simple.

 

[dmelosi]

What I would agree with is there are many life and death issues.

Supporting the death penalty is certainly a life and death issue. And many conservatives have no qualms about doing just that under the guise of innocent vs non innocent. They nevertheless play God and take a life already born. No question whether they were a viable breathing human.being. They were until they are killed by lethal injection or sending volts of electricity thru their bodies. This despite Christ’s admonishments that we have heard an eye for eye but He says not so fast.

The CC plays lip service to being against capital punishment in comparison to abortion.

War? Definitely a life and death issue. Perhaps that’s why Christ said blessed are the peacemakers and not once directly mentioned the word abortion.

Being hungry, thirsty? Life and death issues as well. Homeless? Sick? Can’t afford adequate healthcare coverage? Having to choose between food on the table for your children or taking your medications? Being denied healthcare coverage because of a pre-existing condition?

No wonder Christ taught us what He did in Matt 25:35-46. Life and death issues.

I do not blindly pledge allegiance to any human whether in a party or any institution. But I have no guilt in following what Christ so clearly taught. God bless and peace.

I hope you do not blindly follow, but your justification of promoting abortion by trying to dumb down the issue seems to indicate otherwise. You have raised many issues in this post. Please explain your accusation about the CC paying lip service about the death penalty. Do you know what the CC teaches about that? Do you know how many were put to death last year VS the number of killing of the most innocent unborn?

 

[estesbob]

And they need to repent and convert. They support baby killing. Plain and simple.

Most people who are pro-abortion are pro other people killing ther chilldren-not their own. They are especially for people killing their chidren in third world countries as it cutes down on the number of black brown and yellow childern born into the world.

Isnt it ironic that so many people who claim to care for the poor support the poor killiong their children. Perhaps Jonothan Swift was right after all.

 

[CathFaith1]

Most people who are pro-abortion are pro other people killing the children-not their own. They are especially for people killing their children in third world countries as it cuts down on the number of black, brown and yellow children born into the world.

Isn’t it ironic that so many people who claim to care for the poor support the poor killing their children. Perhaps Jonothan Swift was right after all.

Unfortunately, Eugenics does still appear to have supporters.

Yet there are those who equate abortion (An intrinsic evil. The murder of an innocent child 100% of the time) to the death penalty or war, in an attempt to justify abortion. Since, in certain cases, the death penalty or war can be justified morally. In fact they can become a moral duty.