Abortion and pro life

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No, suicide is one of the gravest sins. One is never justified to take one’s own life.

Mental distress can mitigate the guilt of this grave sin, even entirely. Mitigation, however, is distinct from justification.
 
Suicide and mental illness is not a sin. It is an illness. People should have support and resources when they are feeling suicidal and have mental health issues to prevent suicide. People would not take their own life if they weren’t mentally ill. Humans have an instinct to survive.
 
Personally I am pro choice because women have the right to their own bodies. A Woman should not be forced to have the child that was produced because of rape. Traumatizing
 
Are you trying to tell me that suicide is not evil?

Are you trying to tell me that suicide is good and healthy?

Of course not!

If something is evil, it is sinful to intentionally engage in it. This is the definition of sin.

Mental illness is a grave natural evil. It can diminish the clear intention to destroy oneself. But it only makes suicide a tragedy rather than a deliberate evil act.
 
Suicide is not good. But a sin is something you have to intentionally engage in out of your own free will. That persons free will is being clouded so to speak by an illness. So it distorts their behaviour, choices, and actions. Physical and mental illness are not sins. I do not see being sick as a sin. The flu is not a sin, neither is cancer, a broken bone etc. So why in your opinion is depression anxiety etc sinful?
 
Illnesses are natural evils. They cause harm for which one bears little or no personal responsibility. Mental illness, in particular, is characterized by disordered thinking. One is not culpable for disordered thinking per se.

However, one has a duty to the extent possible to mitigate the harm (evil) of disordered thinking. Unchecked, mental illness can lead to all sorts of evils, including broken families, homelessness, and death. To deny that there is a moral element to mental illness is to deny human agency.

Does a post-partum depressed mother sin by failing to feed her infant? Does a bipolar father sin by beating his children. Does a pedophile priest sin by giving in to his disordered proclivities?

It is impossible to consider suicide in isolation. Actions taken under the influence of mental illness have consequences, and to the extent possible, those suffering from the illness have a duty to mitigate or prevent harm. When someone commits serious harm to oneself or another, there is objective moral harm. Sin.

Diminished capacity diminishes the culpability, the subjective moral guilt. But harm was done, and thus sin committed.
 
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Why are you guys arguing with this poster? You simply don’t have enough common premises to make an argument useful. The OP does not believe in Christian ideas about sin and the sanctity of life. The woman’s autonomy trumps all other considerations, according to her.
 
runningdude said:
Mental illness is a grave natural evil.
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Mental illness is an illness. No one chooses mental illness, no one chooses heart failure or cancer or MS or diabetes. To infer that those who have illness are involved in a “grave natural evil” is unkind at best.

A very few people with a rare mental illness called “Munchhausen” do seek to become ill, however, that is the manifestation of their illness, the same way a tumor is a manifestation of cancer.

About suicide, the Church speaks in her wisdom in the Catechism:

Suicide

[2280] Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

[2281] Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

[2282] If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

[2283] We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
 
If the woman was raped (which accounts for <2% of all abortions) abortion will neither erase the rape nor provide healing.

Jerome Brudos brutally murdered a number of young women - in his garage. He was married and had children. Did his wife have the right to kill their already born children after she found out what he had done, because looking at them was a constant reminder of him?

Abortion kills the child for the sins of the father.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Mental illness is an illness. No one chooses mental illness, no one chooses heart failure or cancer or MS or diabetes. To infer that those who have illness are involved in a “grave natural evil” is unkind at best.
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That is an inaccurate representation of my position, and I resent it.

THERE IS NO MORAL BLAME ASSOCIATED WITH A NATURAL EVIL. A heart attack is an example of a natural evil, because it harms or kills a person. A lion eating an antalope is another natural evil, because the antalope suffers grave pain.

It is utterly irrelevant whether it is “kind” to call suicide a natural evil. It is the truth. Someone died, and that is bad. The underlying mental illness that drove them to death is EVIL.

If someone dies, something evil occurred. The church teaches offering compassion and help for those with mental illness, because suffering and death are evil.

Offering treatment, therapy, and kindness are virtues that mitigate the evil of suffering.
 
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larina said:
I have been thinking, at what point is abortion considered to be pro life?
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Hi Larina,
Most practicing Catholics believe that God is the creator of all living things and that each human zygote/embryo/fetus is made in God’s image and has a God-given purpose for existing on this earth. To choose to terminate a pregnancy with the intention to end the zygote/embryo/fetus’ existence is not allowed because it Goes against God’s will for that developing human. So an elective abortion is never considered pro-life by the Catholic church.

Since all human life is to be respected at all stages of existence, the church expects its followers to support their fellow human beings by providing material and spiritual aid to those in need. That’s why the church promotes strong social justice programs throughout the world.

Human beings are made to be loved and cherished (by God and others) according to the catholic perspective. Torture, abuse, poverty, addiction, trauma, illness, and unfortunate circumstances are not grounds to extinguish human life. From the catholic point-of-view, it isn’t acceptable to terminate the life of an exploited child living outside of the mother’s womb because his/her/their life is horrific. Just the same, Catholic’s hold that terminating the life of the developing human in the mother’s womb isn’t acceptable either, regardless of his/her/their prospects.

Humans are supposed to build each other up, not tear each other down per Catholic teaching.
 
Fine she has a right to HER OWN body. She doesn’t have the right to kill the child growing within her.

At no time is abortion considered pro life. With every abortion, a person dies.

Saying abortion is pro life, is like saying murder is pro life.
 
well she is the one giving birth with her own body so she has a say whether or not she wants her body to give birth
 
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She will expel the child one way or another. Pretty lousy if she kills it first.
 
Either way she is going to give birth. The question is whether she will do it with the intention of killing the baby.
 
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