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larkin31
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Opening paragraph from this document:
Thanks. This sums up my position precisely.
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Bob_Crowley
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Well, it looks like you might have to argue the case with the head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, Archbishop Fisichella.
“However, after a firestorm of negative responses repeated in the Brazilian and international media, Archbishop “Rino” Fisichella, head of the Pontifical Academy for Life, wrote an article for the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano openly denouncing Sobrinho’s statements, implying that the abortion was necessary to save the mother’s life, and Sobrinho was cruel for having declared the excommunication.”
The girl was nine, she was bearing twins from her stepfather, who has also been suspected of sexually molesting her 14 year old disabled sister. At least he’s been arrested.
I repeat, as a PR exercise, it was absolutely woeful and stupid.
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Usbek_de_Perse
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This incident is an extreme example of following the Catholic Church’s position to its absurd conclusion. The Church did nothing more than apply its teachings. I think it could have shown more wisdom.
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wisdomseeker
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really!. and what did you accomplish so far?
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larkin31
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Not sure what your question means. Can you clarify it?
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choy
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not in our opinion but a fact
if you don’t agree with EVERYTHING the Catholic Church is about, how can you be ONE with the Church?
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wisdomseeker
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Holly3278
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Dokimas
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Then I’ll bet many, if not most, of those who go to C Churches aren’t really catholics. How many have had abortion or think it’s okay? How many have children out of marriage.
Now before anyone says, ‘protestants do worse’ I’ll give that to you for the sake of discussion. The context of the comments is ‘can a person that is pro-abortion be a catholic?’ and then the above response came. Choy’s comment opened the door for my questions and statements of this post, IMO.
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larkin31
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That the Inquisition is an embarrassment to the RCC.
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Eris_Discordia
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Because she is NINE YEARS OLD. Let me repeat that:
NINE YEARS OLD.
Eris, Goddess of Discord!
She is WAY to young to be able to carry those children safely to term! Nine year old children are at a substantial risk for all sorts of health issues, including death, and on top of that, this child was raped by her stepfather. Abortion is bad? So is forcing a pregnant, scared, 9 year old to give birth to her rapist’s kids.
The Church made a horrible decision to turn this poor girl, the mother, and the doctor into a media spectacle. I’m sure plenty of other people get abortions in Brazil, so why not say something about them? Why single out a child who was victimized and violated, the control of her body taken away from her, because of rape?
A nine year old should NEVER have to deal with this kind of trauma, and the Church really should have stayed out of it.
I’ve followed this thread since it’s creation, and I have to say something in defense of this child and her caretakers. I know far too many people who have been traumatized by childhood sexual abuse, and rarely have I seen mention of the fact that this is a nine year old child we are talking about.
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wisdomseeker
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i know she is a 9 yr old a girl. but what people seem to be forgetting is that abortion most of all hurts a person who has the abortion. all sort of problems comes with abortion. just ask those who do it. it is a very serious situation and i understand that. but abortion is the worse avenue that a person can take. there are others out there who had child at the same age also from rape. i know it is traumatizing. it is a difficult situation. i personally would not know what to do.
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Eris_Discordia
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I think the Church handled it horribly. Why not announce the excommunication of the rapist? I was never pregnant as a result of my sexual assault, but I think going through pregnancy with twins as a result of rape at 9 would be just as bad of an option in this case. It’s a lose-lose situation no matter what side of it your looking at. There are so many complications because of how young she is, not to mention the psychological mess she is in from being violated by someone she was supposed to be able to trust. Her mother probably also feels horrible for not protecting her daughter, and she is trying to do what’s best so her daughter doesn’t die from complications, and doesn’t have any more control of her body taken away from her. 9 months is a long time to be reminded that your body doesn’t belong to you, but to your rapist.
I’m a survivor of rape and abuse. It’s hard no matter what age it happens. I was 19. However, if I was her age, I would be far more devastated, because it has ruined her life, and destroyed her childhood. No one is taking the fact that this could kill her into the equation as well. No one has mentioned excommunicating the scumbag who did this. It’s wrong for the church to single out a 9 year old rape survivor as opposed to people who are of age, who weren’t sexually assaulted, and who are rich enough not to have back-alley abortions. It’s wrong to put a survivor and her family through this kind of scrutiny. They’ve suffered enough without all of the public scrutiny.
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wisdomseeker
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i quite understand. it is very difficult. the scumbag has already been excommunicated. he has done evil to a child. God will judge him accordingly.
exactly, this could be a death ot her since a person does not have to be phisically dead. her life could be lived as if she was dead. i am sorry to hear that you also went through such a scary time. there are no words i can say that would make any better. the only thing we can do is beg God for Mercy on us, to protect us against all evil.
Holy Mother of God pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death. Amen.
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Usbek_de_Perse
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This is a case where theological principles already laid down simply don’t work. There is not reason for the church to change its teachings, but to recognize that in this freakish case, the ordinary rules don’t apply. Period. Ordinary human revulsion for the application of otherwise sound teaching should be treated as a ruling from natural law. A bishop, acting with the power of the keys, should be able to reach an independent decision not based on precedent, but on the actual case at hand.
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Eris_Discordia
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Thank you! I understand the opposition to abortion, but this isn’t typical at all. It’s not something you can just blow off without serious thinking. People were so angry because it’s almost like a slap in the face to rape survivors. Rape is an extremely emotionally scarring thing to go through. To quote Emilie Autumn, “It’s the kind of death where nobody dies”. I’ve fought hard not to be dead inside because of my assault, and I know others who are dead inside because of it. The Bishop should have reached out to this girl and her family, not barked orders carelessly without looking at the whole picture, and the reactions of the people.
Survivors face so many hardships, not only from the emotional scarring of the abuse, but the stigma and judgment faced from those around you, and those who treat it as a joke. On bad days, I can’t even watch certain things because it triggers me and infuriates me how insensitive people are. The Church should act with compassion and understanding for such a horrible, tragic situation, and show comfort and love to this family, not abandonment.
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gurneyhalleck1
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My wife is a survivor of a similar assault as you, at the age of 16. Certain scenes in movies trigger her and it’s a deeply, deeply painful memory for her. My wife is 100% passionately pro-life and as anti-abortion as they come…
Punishing a baby is never going to bring back the dignity lost to these poor, godly women. Adoption is always an option and God always protects His innocents in the grand scheme, the final verdict. Situations like these are so freakish, as another poster said, and thank God they’re not that common. It’s heart-wrenching. I share your passion to see rapists excommunicated. No arguments there!
Punishing a baby is never going to bring back the dignity lost to these poor, godly women. Adoption is always an option and God always protects His innocents in the grand scheme, the final verdict. Situations like these are so freakish, as another poster said, and thank God they’re not that common. It’s heart-wrenching. I share your passion to see rapists excommunicated. No arguments there!
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Answersplease
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Eris_Discordia
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I can sympathize, I go through the same thing sometimes. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship, and suffered sexual abuse as well in this relationship. I’m glad you are able to be there for your wife, because it’s hard for people to help there partners through this kind of trauma. I have a really wonderful boyfriend who’s been amazing with helping me through my issues. I’m on another forum and started a thread for survivors of abuse. It’s saddening to hear all of the stories of abuse, and how it’s effected some of the people on it. I think there’s a good 40 or so people who have talked about their abuse. The good thing is that a lot of these people are really happy to have some place to talk to about it.
I think it’s just the way the Church handled it. If they would have left it alone, then there wouldn’t have been such an outcry about the Church’s handling. Abortion happens a lot, and I think they could have picked a better case to try to fight against it. If it was a rich woman who obtained an abortion through paying off a doctor, or something similar, would have garnered a much different reaction from people. A lot of people saw it as cold and heartless for the bishop to single out this particular case. I won’t argue for or against abortion, but I think this is one of those cases that needs to be judged differently because of the age of the girl, and how dangerous this situation is for her.
And yes, there should be an excommunication of the rapist. Raping someone is horrible, and it’s victims are stigmatized in many ways. It is just as much the death of an innocent, even if it’s not a physical death. One of my favorite artists goes into great detail to talk about the effects of rape in her music, because she is a survivor as well, and killing someone doesn’t mean they have to end their life. They can do it well enough through rape, because of how much it can destroy a victims life.
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Answersplease
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