Abortion and religion.

[Eris_Discordia]

Right. Let me guess, saw my religion and assume I know nothing about the Church?

Yeah, then the first 18 years of my life didn’t teach me nothin’, did it? Please. As Gurny can tell you, I was an active member of my church until I was 18 years old. Your quoting Scripture does nothing to persuade me that the Church could have left it alone and went after someone else, instead of going after a victimized child.

I know a LOT more about the Church than you realize.

I will not sit idol and condone how callous you sound right now. It’s this type of attitude that makes me realize we have a long way to go to protect the victims of abuse.

 

[Answersplease]

No, it was not because of your religion, but because of your ignorance.

Prove you are not ignorant of Catholicism then,

tell me what HOW and WHY excommunication is done, and WHAT excommunication actually does to the person who is excommunicated.

Abortion is murder, and if you condone abortion then you condone murder.

Saying you used to be Catholic doesn’t impress me one bit.

I know for a fact that many Catholics and former Catholics are ignorant of Catholicism.

I’m not callous because I STAND UP FOR THE LIFE OF THE unborn BABY, and you think is OK when that BABY was MURDERED in the womb.

How callous do you sound, when you say it is OK to murder unborn BABIES.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Answers, let’s cool down. This is a sticky subject, not easy to discuss in the first place and calling someone out as being an ignoramous isn’t productive. I think Eris feels a connection to the victim through her own abuse. Like I said, my wife has had such an experience. It’s mind-numbing. Wanting a rapist to be excommunicated is only natural for a person who has been through such an experience. It’s not unreasonable and insane by any measure. Abortion is equally sinful and evil. Cases like these are rare, thank goodness, and for these emotionally-charged families that have been through hell their morals get blurred quickly. You and I haven’t gone through something like this so it’s easy for us to generalize what we should or would do. Let’s just pray for everyone involved.

And let’s not have a litmus test where people have to take a test and prove how Catholic they are or how much they know. I for one hope Eris returns to her Catholic roots someday. And this kind of discourse won’t facilitate that. Let’s cool down and in the spirit of Lent pray for one another. God bless…

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Nothing is black and white. Ever.

One can be excommunicated for a whole number of things. Mortal sins, and killing the Pope.

People have abortions and kill innocent people ever day. None of them get an official excommunication.

Yet the family of a victimized child gets officially excommunicated, drawing national attention and throwing them into media scrutiny, because the child gets an abortion.

No one in the Church speaks out against the rapist, as far as I am aware. I’m not condemning or condoning the abortion, because my beliefs are no one’s business. What I am angry about is:

Why hasn’t the Church gone after someone who wasn’t a 9-year-old rape victim, nor condemned her rapist, as far as I am aware?

Rape victims and their family’s need support, not more scrutiny over an already desperate situation.

 

[Answersplease]

Tell me HOW and WHY excommunication is done, and WHAT excommunication actually does to the person who is excommunicated.

Abortion is murder, and if you condone abortion then you condone murder, that is callous.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Answers, let’s cool down. This is a sticky subject, not easy to discuss in the first place and calling someone out as being an ignoramous isn’t productive. I think Eris feels a connection to the victim through her own abuse. Like I said, my wife has had such an experience. It’s mind-numbing. Wanting a rapist to be excommunicated is only natural for a person who has been through such an experience. It’s not unreasonable and insane by any measure. Abortion is equally sinful and evil. Cases like these are rare, thank goodness, and for these emotionally-charged families that have been through hell their morals get blurred quickly. You and I haven’t gone through something like this so it’s easy for us to generalize what we should or would do. Let’s just pray for everyone involved.

And let’s not have a litmus test where people have to take a test and prove how Catholic they are or how much they know. I for one hope Eris returns to her Catholic roots someday. And this kind of discourse won’t facilitate that. Let’s cool down and in the spirit of Lent pray for one another. God bless…

Thanks for defending me. I think I am going to step away from this. Honestly it’s really bad for my mental health right now. Considering this poster seems to have absolutely no sympathy for a survivor, I really can’t deal with it, especially after this week, and and going to a survivor’s event, as well as reading my favorite artist’s partly autobiographical book, which does mention her abuse and her stay in a psych ward. Plus school has been hard, and it’s snowing yet AGAIN. I’m an emotional wreck right now, and I knew it would be a bad idea to post on this thread, because I knew there would be people with whom it would be difficult to be charitable with.

 

[Answersplease]

Answers, let’s cool down. This is a sticky subject, not easy to discuss in the first place and calling someone out as being an ignoramous isn’t productive.

I didn’t call her that name!

I said she was ignorant of Catholicism, and that is not the same as that name you said.

Standing up for the life of the unborn, and calling abortion murder is what saves these unborn babies lives because it helps change public opinion in favor of saving these unborn babies lives.

When you let pro-abortion people promote abortion or at promote indifference to the unborn babies lives, and you don’t respond by standing up for the unborn babies’ lives, then it changes public opinion in favor of abortion.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Accusing someone of being ignorant and being an ignoramous are pretty much analagous in my book but that’s neither here nor there…

I admire and share your HATRED for abortion. It’s a diabolical act and I am passionately pro-life. I don’t agree with abortion in this context or any really. I’m merely saying that this isn’t your run-of-the-mill typical abortion case. It’s an emotionally-charged, controversial, assault context that is dicey and for a person in this forum who has been raped, we need to have some understanding as to how they would feel toward a rapist demanding excommunication for him and having pity on the woman for her decision. I never said I agree with abortion. I loathe it intensely. I laud you for hating it as well. I just say let’s not call our Eris so much and demand she prove her Catholicism and consider why she might feel the way she does. Tough situation. Outrageous, horrific emotional stress and nightmarish suffering can affect people’s decisions and we hope God is gracious and merciful to the young lady in question in the story on this thread…God bless…

Answersplease:

 

[Answersplease]

Who is crying for the dead unborn baby?

Who speaks for the dead unborn baby?

No one, except for the pro-life supporters.

And think about the little girl, she was probably awake when they performed the abortion.

Think about what she must have felt when the abortionist killed the unborn baby inside her.

Think about how she will feel when she gets older and realizes she lost her baby, and now she will never get to know that baby.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

Again, I am not arguing the legitimacy of this case, because I refuse to debate abortion. I’m arguing how the Catholic Church singled out a rape victim and her family. Rape victims are still silenced in this day and age. Where is the outcry to stop rape, which is an extremely prevalent problem? Where is the huge base of people who participate in anti-rape events? They are not nearly as publicized as Pro-Life movements, if at all. Where is the outcry for those who use rape as a weapon of war, or where women are treated as objects? Rape survivors are just as innocent as the unborn, yet there suffering is not acknowledged on the same scale. Rape is murder, except the victim is still breathing. If I can fight for them as hard as people fight for the unborn, I will not back down and ignore their suffering.

 

[Answersplease]

Again, I am not arguing the legitimacy of this case, because I refuse to debate abortion. I’m arguing how the Catholic Church singled out a rape victim and her family.

Are you anti-Catholic?

One Bishop does NOT make the entire Catholic Church, you should know since you said you used to be Catholic.

You claim in your other thread to be the only member of your religious sect. So as the sole member of your sect you impose your sects views and your sects morality against the Bishop and criticize the Bishop for his actions.

The Bishop was acting because of his beliefs about abortion and you criticize him for as you say “singling out a rape victim and her family”, it was the impending ABORTION that made the Bishop speak out. And yet as the sole member of your sect, you refuse to make your beliefs about abortion known.

But people can guess what your stance on abortion is because you said the Church should have left the girl alone, the girl was being taken to get an abortion.

You criticize another religion for it’s stance on abortion, but you refuse to give your religion’s stance on abortion.

**Who is crying for the dead unborn baby?

Who speaks for the dead unborn baby?

No one, except for the pro-life supporters.

And think about the little girl, she was probably awake when they performed the abortion.

Think about what she must have felt when the abortionist killed the unborn baby inside her.

Think about how she will feel when she gets older and realizes she lost her baby, and now she will never get to know that baby. **

Rape victims are still silenced in this day and age. Where is the outcry to stop rape, which is an extremely prevalent problem? Where is the huge base of people who participate in anti-rape events? They are not nearly as publicized as Pro-Life movements, if at all. Where is the outcry for those who use rape as a weapon of war, or where women are treated as objects? Rape survivors are just as innocent as the unborn, yet there suffering is not acknowledged on the same scale. Rape is murder, except the victim is still breathing. If I can fight for them as hard as people fight for the unborn, I will not back down and ignore their suffering.

Rape is a horrible crime.

If you want to march and protest, then that is your perogative, nobody is stopping you, and the Catholic Church or that ONE Brazillian Bishop are not stopping you.

So why all the hatred and bashing against the Catholic Church and that ONE Brazillian Bishop?

There are huge protests against abortion because about 50 MILLION unborn BABIES have have died because they were murdered during an abortion.

If you want more people to protest against rape then nobody is stopping you from trying to get more people to do so.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Nothing is black and white. Ever.

One can be excommunicated for a whole number of things. Mortal sins, and killing the Pope.

People have abortions and kill innocent people ever day. None of them get an official excommunication.

Yet the family of a victimized child gets officially excommunicated, drawing national attention and throwing them into media scrutiny, because the child gets an abortion.

No one in the Church speaks out against the rapist, as far as I am aware. I’m not condemning or condoning the abortion, because my beliefs are no one’s business. What I am angry about is:

Why hasn’t the Church gone after someone who wasn’t a 9-year-old rape victim, nor condemned her rapist, as far as I am aware?

Rape victims and their family’s need support, not more scrutiny over an already desperate situation.

i quite understand your position. but there is more to it than just, why not do it this way or that way.
what gave the rouse in this case is that the liberals took advantage of the situation to advocate their agenda. this situation should have been left to the Church and the victims.
the victims could have simply come to the Church and repent. but the liberals took over to make the Church look bad to the world. see my point.

abortionists are taking every opportunity they can to fight the Church. this is one of those cases. the Church cannot in any way say yes to abortion because people will take adavantage of this and begin to use to support their agenda. there is much to this than we can see.

 

[larkin31]

i quite understand your position. but there is more to it than just, why not do it this way or that way.
what gave the rouse in this case is that the liberals took advantage of the situation to advocate their agenda. this situation should have been left to the Church and the victims.
the victims could have simply come to the Church and repent. but the liberals took over to make the Church look bad to the world. see my point.

abortionists are taking every opportunity they can to fight the Church. this is one of those cases. the Church cannot in any way say yes to abortion because people will take adavantage of this and begin to use to support their agenda. there is much to this than we can see.

so, individual lives are risked (possibly sacrificed) out of worry about arguments from non-Catholics or liberal Catholics?

You mean that the principle is NOT actually supported to the degree that it is stated?

This sounds to me like the quintessential institutional sin: callousness toward individual humanity.