Abortion and saving a woman's life

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PumpkinSeed said:
Well under the Catholic church, abortion cannot be performed even to save the mothers life.

It’s just church rules. Abortion is never allowed, ever.
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Then, potential moms better be given some pretty comprehensive medical screening. I mean, this would even turn me away from having biological kids if I knew my life came in danger for doing something good (bringing someone into the world), I would not be taken care of. I’m happy the church is standing up from the annoying teen has casual sex and gets pregnant, then wants an abortion (I think that is wrong), but if the mom’s life is in danger, I think an abortion is moral. I’m not catholic, so I guess there are some differences in people’s beliefs due to different religious teachings. I know there are also some religions that even oppose blood transfusions and I’m like YO, SERIOUSLY!? :eek:
 
SparkleFly said:
But it doesn’t come from God.
When the vet put my dog to sleep it was more moral than leaving her to suffer. We knew she wouldn’t make it, but would rather see her die peacefully than in pain. If we use medicine to artificially save lives and keep life here, why can’t it be used to give on a dignified death when the moment arises?
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This is a good question. But do not expect the church to ever allow assisted physician suicide, even if the person is suffering and in unbearable pain, they must stick through it. However medicine has advanced and there are things they can do to ease the suffering.
 
SparkleFly said:
I at least feel like babies that die in the womb they should be removed (uterine contractions don’t always begin once the baby dies) or if we **know **they are going to die, an abortion may be the best decision, so the mom doesn’t go months with a baby that will ultimately die making delivery very difficult.
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And how does one know?

My sister had twins and was told they would die in the womb. They are happy and healthy now.

My friends had a son. He was supposed to die in the womb, having only three chambers in his heart. He is happy and reasonably healthy now (with some further procedures necessary).

Other friends have a son with down sydrome…and he is a blessing to everyone he meets.

Like I said, God gives and takes life. It is not for us to do this. If a baby will die, or suffer, that is for God to decide. For us to take His place and make that decision is presumptuous. I’m not qualified to make decisions for God…are you?
 
SparkleFly said:
Then, potential moms better be given some pretty comprehensive medical screening. I mean, this would even turn me away from having biological kids if I knew my life came in danger for doing something good (bringing someone into the world),
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Well if thats the case then under church teaching you cannot get married, because under church teaching you need to be open to life and not use contraception.
 
SparkleFly said:
But it doesn’t come from God.
When the vet put my dog to sleep it was more moral than leaving her to suffer. We knew she wouldn’t make it, but would rather see her die peacefully than in pain. If we use medicine to artificially save lives and keep life here, why can’t it be used to give on a dignified death when the moment arises?
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Since animals don’t have an afterlife, they do not benefit from suffering at the end of their life.

People are much different than animals. They have an afterlife. This afterlife can be significantly affected up until the last second of their death. To make assumptions that their remaining time on earth up until their death is of no consequence, and their suffering will have no positive outcome for them is pretending to know God’s will.

Dangerous, especially when murder is the result.
 
SparkleFly said:
Then, potential moms better be given some pretty comprehensive medical screening. I mean, this would even turn me away from having biological kids if I knew my life came in danger for doing something good (bringing someone into the world):
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All pregancies have risks. I had a coworker whose apparently perfectly healthy wife went to the hospital to have their baby and died suddenly during labor from a complication.

If we were to follow your suggestion of avoiding mortal risk at all costs, then no one should have children.

Or, perhaps those that do the most ‘real’ good do it regardless of the risks?
 
PumpkinSeed said:
This is a good question. But do not expect the church to ever allow assisted physician suicide, even if the person is suffering and in unbearable pain, they must stick through it. However medicine has advanced and there are things they can do to ease the suffering.
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I’m just wondering if medicine can play against God by prolonging life, why can’t it do the opposite? The Methodist church (as well as others) approves of physician assisted suicide.
euthanasia.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000154
 
SparkleFly said:
Agreed–all life goes to heaven in my opinion.
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Yep. It tears my heart apart when somebody says they don’t believe animals go to heaven. They are little angels. Nobody knows what a real best friend is till they have a pet. They give unconditional love, are loyal and are unable to commit sin, so why wouldn’t they go to heaven?

Heaven wouldn’t be complete without my pets there.

<3
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Well if thats the case then under church teaching you cannot get married, because under church teaching you need to be open to life and not use contraception.
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You can use it–there is nothing in the bible that is against it. The only thing against it would be to not have any kids if you feel that God has planned for you to have some. If everyone had oodles of kids, we’d overpopulate the earth and die of lack in resources. Also, God has other goals for us besides having kids. I know I couldn’t purse my career in academia if I had to pop out a kid every year. I also would not be able to tend to them and give them the attention they need. As long as it isn’t abortive, there is nothing wrong with using contraception. It can actually be great for women going in high risk areas where there are wacky rapists lurking.
 
SparkleFly said:
You can use it–there is nothing in the bible that is against it. The only thing against it would be to not have any kids if you feel that God has planned for you to have some. If everyone had oodles of kids, we’d overpopulate the earth and die of lack in resources. Also, God has other goals for us besides having kids. I know I couldn’t purse my career in academia if I had to pop out a kid every year. I also would not be able to tend to them and give them the attention they need. As long as it isn’t abortive, there is nothing wrong with using contraception. It can actually be great for women going in high risk areas where there are wacky rapists lurking.
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Since this is a Catholic forum, I’m simply telling you the Catholic doctrine and their rules. Assuming you came here to learn more about them.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Since this is a Catholic forum, I’m simply telling you the Catholic doctrine and their rules. Assuming you came here to learn more about them.
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Right… I think I just kind of need to leave. No offense, I’m just not catholic. I came across this through Google and joined to give my (name removed by moderator)ut on the bikini modesty thread–I think it’s time for me to go now. 🙂

PS I love it when catholic people do this :signofcross:
 
SparkleFly said:
Right… I think I just kind of need to leave. No offense, I’m just not catholic. I came across this through Google and joined to give my (name removed by moderator)ut on the bikini modesty thread–I think it’s time for me to go now. 🙂

PS I love it when catholic people do this :signofcross:
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Sorry if I pushed you away. There was a point when I didn’t know much of the Catholic doctrine and when I asked, the answers I told you are the answers I got, so I guess I just accepted it as the churchs teaching.
 
*1) Saving the life of the mother, which is the intended effect.
  1. The death of the embryo, which is the unintended but forseen second effect.
Two effects from one action, one intended and forseen, the second resultant action, unintended and forseen.

In the tubal pregnancy scenario, the principle of double effect also applies:
  1. 1st intended effect is the saving of the life of the mother by removing the embryo from its abnormal and life-threatening location (regardless of whether the tube needs to be removed or not)
  2. 2nd unintended but forseen effect is the death of the embryo.
Newbie2, thank you for this. I was unsure of how the church teaching worked and this makes it very clear.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Sorry if I pushed you away. There was a point when I didn’t know much of the Catholic doctrine and when I asked, the answers I told you are the answers I got, so I guess I just accepted it as the churchs teaching.
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You didn’t. 🙂
I just kept going when I kind of forgot that this is a catholic forum and people are obviously going to feel differently.

All the best <3
 
PumpkinSeed said:
That’s an opinion. You have no idea if Fido will be in heaven or not. I see no reason for him not to.
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Your comments are more and more deflecting from the real issues raised.

But, anyway… Whereas there has been significant revelation from God (including Jesus) about the human afterlife, there has been absolutely none concerning animals. Making the assumption would be doing so with no evidence whatsoever.
 
SparkleFly said:
I’m just wondering if medicine can play against God by prolonging life, why can’t it do the opposite? The Methodist church (as well as others) approves of physician assisted suicide.
euthanasia.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000154
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We do not own each other. We do not even own ourselves. We are created by God and belong to Him. When He calls us, then we may go. Physician assisted suicide seems like crashing God’s party uninvited, does it not?
 
Dan_Grelinger said:
We do not own each other. We do not even own ourselves. We are created by God and belong to Him. When He calls us, then we may go. Physician assisted suicide seems like crashing God’s party uninvited, does it not?
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What if God calls us home but we say “No, thanks, I’m enjoying life and I have drugs and modern medicine to treat me and keep me living so ask me some other time.” Isn’t that opposing God’s will too? I think that is where people get confused between why physician assisted suicide is wrong but prolonging one’s life is not.

I mean think of heart transplants. If a patients heart is going out and will kill them without a transplant then isn’t that like telling God the heart he gave them isn’t good enough and they aren’t ready to die so they’ll just get a new one so they can avoid answering his call home for a handful more years here on Earth?
 
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