Abortion-approving nun excommunicated...?

[wjp984]

Since when did the mens rea requirement become removed from mortal sins. I did not know the Catholic Church had strict liability for offenses.

Here is what I wonder: How does one confess something they do not believe to be a sin?

This nun made a rational decision based on a possible interpretation of Catholic teaching. And I agree with the nun’s decision. Does this mean I’m automatically excommunicated?

But getting back to the point, if there was no intent to commit a mortal sin, and clearly the nun did not have any, how is there a mortal sin?

Are early church fathers burning in Hell burning in Hell because they did not know that a fetus was a person and therefore gave a wrong interpretation on that issue?

I’m just really confused here. If there was no sin committed, how does one confess?

 

[hockeyfan]

** She was 11 weeks pregnant with her fifth child, and she was gravely ill. According to a hospital document, she had “right heart failure,” and her doctors told her that if she continued with the pregnancy, her risk of mortality was “close to 100 percent.”**

I am not a medical expert of any sort. What I can say about this is that I am the oldest son out of three kids. My brother is a year and a half younger and my sister is 11 years younger. So when I was 10 my Mom got pregnant with my sister. She had similar types of heart problems and was told the exact same thing by a doctor. (The doctor ignored the fact that the patients son was sitting in the room playing his gameboy) My Mom was told the same thing that both of them were going to die if she didn’t get an abortion. Mom was about 4 1/2 months pregnant at the time. When she heard that she insisted the hospital give her another doctor and that she never see her again. The end of the story was that 3 1/2 months later, my sister was born a 4 weeks early. My Mom is alive and well considering she doesn’t have the best ticker in the world. My sister just turned 18 last month and other then asthma is in very good health. Not to judge the nun because I know how morally complicated it is. I didn’t want to see my Mother die. Just saying that sometimes when doctors say things like that it isn’t always as black and white as they said. Personal opinion is often clouding their estimates.

 

[anruari]

Since when did the mens rea requirement become removed from mortal sins. I did not know the Catholic Church had strict liability for offenses.

Here is what I wonder: How does one confess something they do not believe to be a sin?

This nun made a rational decision based on a possible interpretation of Catholic teaching. And I agree with the nun’s decision. Does this mean I’m automatically excommunicated?

But getting back to the point, if there was no intent to commit a mortal sin, and clearly the nun did not have any, how is there a mortal sin?

Are early church fathers burning in Hell burning in Hell because they did not know that a fetus was a person and therefore gave a wrong interpretation on that issue?

I’m just really confused here. If there was no sin committed, how does one confess?

It is preposterous to suggest that a nun who works in a medical field would be unaware of the churches teaching on Abortion. Any Nun in the modern world who claimed such ignorance, would most probably be in a state of “Obstinate Ignorance”.

Yes a non religious or Lay-person could be in tat state, but it stretches credulity to suggest that a nun would be.

IN terms of automatic penalties. Cannon Law (1983 code) stipulates a number of
Ipso Facto, Latae Sententiae excommunications for specific acts of moral depravity.
This is different from committing “Mortal Sin”.
The list is summaries in This wikipedia Article, but to see the items "From the horses Mouth, here’s the Code of cannon Law. - I recommend you check the cross references yourself.

In summary, most of these apply only to clergy, but a Lay person can be automatically excommunicated by committing the following “Crimes”:

Deliberate Apostasy, or Heresy.
Deliberate desecration of the Holy Eucharist.
Deliberate Violation of the Seal of the Confession (you would need to be spying or eavesdropping)
Procuring a successful abortion

Assisting or instructing anyone to do any of the above (with the act then taking place).

The list used to include membership of the Free Masons, however the automatic Excommunication for this appears to have been dropped form Cannon Law. However some Bishops have reintroduced it (as part of a list of banned organisations) in their dioceses.

The stated purpose of the church for these strict penalties is mostly to stress the importance of these issues, and to encourage the persons affected by these penalties to seek urgent reconciliation.

 

[poche]

Subsequent to this unfortunate event I believe there were news reports that this sister has reconciled with the Catholic church

 

[Elizium23]

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

Committing an act of grave matter without full knowledge or consent means that the sin is reduced to venial sin. It does not mean there is no sin. It means that the sin is a lesser offense.

 

[wjp984]

It is preposterous to suggest that a nun who works in a medical field would be unaware of the churches teaching on Abortion. Any Nun in the modern world who claimed such ignorance, would most probably be in a state of “Obstinate Ignorance”.

Yes a non religious or Lay-person could be in tat state, but it stretches credulity to suggest that a nun would be.

IN terms of automatic penalties. Cannon Law (1983 code) stipulates a number of
Ipso Facto, Latae Sententiae excommunications for specific acts of moral depravity.
This is different from committing “Mortal Sin”.
The list is summaries in This wikipedia Article, but to see the items "From the horses Mouth, here’s the Code of cannon Law. - I recommend you check the cross references yourself.

In summary, most of these apply only to clergy, but a Lay person can be automatically excommunicated by committing the following “Crimes”:

Deliberate Apostasy, or Heresy.
Deliberate desecration of the Holy Eucharist.
Deliberate Violation of the Seal of the Confession (you would need to be spying or eavesdropping)
Procuring a successful abortion

Assisting or instructing anyone to do any of the above (with the act then taking place).

The list used to include membership of the Free Masons, however the automatic Excommunication for this appears to have been dropped form Cannon Law. However some Bishops have reintroduced it (as part of a list of banned organisations) in their dioceses.

The stated purpose of the church for these strict penalties is mostly to stress the importance of these issues, and to encourage the persons affected by these penalties to seek urgent reconciliation.

But based on the article, the nun used a fair interpretation of Catholic teaching to defend her decision. One bishop who may or may not be right should not be allowed to issue this excommunication. Isn’t there an appeals process like every other criminal court in the world has. She should be allowed to appeal to the Pope and if the Pope says she sinned then fine, the nun can confess offending an understanding of Catholic teaching out of obedicance

I still think there are some church fathers burning in Hell if this excommunication holds up.

 

[Elizium23]

I still think there are some church fathers burning in Hell if this excommunication holds up.

The excommunication was soon lifted and she was reconciled with the Church. Now what is this heresy about saints burning in Hell?

 

[Phemie]

But based on the article, the nun used a fair interpretation of Catholic teaching to defend her decision. One bishop who may or may not be right should not be allowed to issue this excommunication. Isn’t there an appeals process like every other criminal court in the world has. She should be allowed to appeal to the Pope and if the Pope says she sinned then fine, the nun can confess offending an understanding of Catholic teaching out of obedicance

I still think there are some church fathers burning in Hell if this excommunication holds up.

He didn’t issue the excommunication, he explained that she had excommunicated herself automatically by her actions.