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vern_humphrey
Guest
If the hand has human DNA, it is a human hand. If the unborn child has its own human DNA, it is a human being.
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Exactly.
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Sideline
Guest
Do you mean the U.S. Government? I had never heard that there was a government definition of when life starts. Interesting.I think that the OP was being sarcastic when they said that, because the government says the baby is not alive until birth, and they were asking why Wikepdeia is not in line with what they government says.
Maybe because Wikepdeia is telling the truth,
Personally, I’ve never heard anyone say that a foetus isn’t alive. Neither the people I know who have had one, nor the people I know who have performed them, have had this point of view.
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Bresinain
Guest
U.S. Federal Law:
Public Law 108-212 “The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004,” a.k.a. Laci and Connor’s Law recognizes that an unborn embryo or fetus can be a legal victim if it is injured or killed during the . commission of a federal crime of violence. There are over 60 such crimes defined. The law was named after a mother, Laci Peterson, and her fetus, Connor Peterson, who were murdered circa 2002-Christmas by Scott Peterson in California. The law defines “a child in utero” as any “member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.”
The bill passed the House by a vote of 254 to 163 on 2004-FEB-26. It passed the Senate by a vote of 61 to 38 on 2004-MAR-25. President George W Bush signed it into law on 2004-APR-01. He said:
“Any time an expectant mother is a victim of violence, two lives are in the balance, each deserving protection, and each deserving justice. If the crime is murder and the unborn child’s life ends, justice demands a full accounting under the law.”
Senator John Kerry (D-MA), who ran against Bush in 2004, voted against the bill. He said:
“I have serious concerns about this legislation because the law cannot simultaneously provide that a fetus is a human being and protect the right of the mother to choose to terminate her pregnancy.”
Text of the law: Section 1841 “Protection of unborn children” states:
(a)(1) Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section.
(2)(A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
(B) An offense under this section does not require proof that–
(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying offense was pregnant; or
(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily injury to, the unborn child.
(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.
(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section. 1
The law provides an exception for instances of abortion or other medical procedure.
There is a very similar law contained in the military justice system. 1
U.S. State Laws:
According to the National Right to Life Committee, on 2007-MAY-09, 25 states have homicide laws that recognize that an unborn embryo or fetus “during any stage of development” can be a victim: AL, AK, AZ, GA, ID, IL, KS, KY, LA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NE, ND, OH, OK, PA, SC, SD, TX, UT, VA, WV, WI. Many of these laws cover only those embryos in the womb, and not pre-embryos after fertilization and before implantation.
Ten states have laws that recognize that an unborn embryo or fetus during the later stages of pregnancy can be a victim: AR, CA, FL, IN, MD, MA, NV, RI, TN, WA. These laws typically apply after quickening (when the pregnant woman first senses fetal movement), or viability (when the fetus can sustain itself outside the mother’s womb), or at some specific point in pregnancy: e.g. 7 to 8 weeks, or 12 weeks.
In the state of New York, one law states that the killing of an “unborn child” at twenty-four weeks or more gestation is homicide. However, another law defines a victim of homicide as a “human being who has been born and is alive.” 2
Scott Peterson was convicted in California of a double homicide in the deaths of his wife and fetus. That meant that he could be given the death penalty.
Public Law 108-212 “The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004,” a.k.a. Laci and Connor’s Law recognizes that an unborn embryo or fetus can be a legal victim if it is injured or killed during the . commission of a federal crime of violence. There are over 60 such crimes defined. The law was named after a mother, Laci Peterson, and her fetus, Connor Peterson, who were murdered circa 2002-Christmas by Scott Peterson in California. The law defines “a child in utero” as any “member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.”
The bill passed the House by a vote of 254 to 163 on 2004-FEB-26. It passed the Senate by a vote of 61 to 38 on 2004-MAR-25. President George W Bush signed it into law on 2004-APR-01. He said:
“Any time an expectant mother is a victim of violence, two lives are in the balance, each deserving protection, and each deserving justice. If the crime is murder and the unborn child’s life ends, justice demands a full accounting under the law.”
Senator John Kerry (D-MA), who ran against Bush in 2004, voted against the bill. He said:
“I have serious concerns about this legislation because the law cannot simultaneously provide that a fetus is a human being and protect the right of the mother to choose to terminate her pregnancy.”
Text of the law: Section 1841 “Protection of unborn children” states:
(a)(1) Whoever engages in conduct that violates any of the provisions of law listed in subsection (b) and thereby causes the death of, or bodily injury (as defined in section 1365) to, a child, who is in utero at the time the conduct takes place, is guilty of a separate offense under this section.
(2)(A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother.
(B) An offense under this section does not require proof that–
(i) the person engaging in the conduct had knowledge or should have had knowledge that the victim of the underlying offense was pregnant; or
(ii) the defendant intended to cause the death of, or bodily injury to, the unborn child.
(C) If the person engaging in the conduct thereby intentionally kills or attempts to kill the unborn child, that person shall instead of being punished under subparagraph (A), be punished as provided under sections 1111, 1112, and 1113 of this title for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being.
(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the death penalty shall not be imposed for an offense under this section. 1
The law provides an exception for instances of abortion or other medical procedure.
There is a very similar law contained in the military justice system. 1
U.S. State Laws:
According to the National Right to Life Committee, on 2007-MAY-09, 25 states have homicide laws that recognize that an unborn embryo or fetus “during any stage of development” can be a victim: AL, AK, AZ, GA, ID, IL, KS, KY, LA, MI, MN, MS, MO, NE, ND, OH, OK, PA, SC, SD, TX, UT, VA, WV, WI. Many of these laws cover only those embryos in the womb, and not pre-embryos after fertilization and before implantation.
Ten states have laws that recognize that an unborn embryo or fetus during the later stages of pregnancy can be a victim: AR, CA, FL, IN, MD, MA, NV, RI, TN, WA. These laws typically apply after quickening (when the pregnant woman first senses fetal movement), or viability (when the fetus can sustain itself outside the mother’s womb), or at some specific point in pregnancy: e.g. 7 to 8 weeks, or 12 weeks.
In the state of New York, one law states that the killing of an “unborn child” at twenty-four weeks or more gestation is homicide. However, another law defines a victim of homicide as a “human being who has been born and is alive.” 2
Scott Peterson was convicted in California of a double homicide in the deaths of his wife and fetus. That meant that he could be given the death penalty.
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geekborj
Guest
DNA or not, the point is being able to “own.” A hand has DNA for sure but it does not own, it is just a part of a being that “owns” it. Hence, the argument about “removing a hand” is not equivalent to “taking life” as opposed to abortion stands valid.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That is my point. If the object of our conversation has the mother’s DNA, then it is part of her body – perhaps her appendix or liver. But if it has its own DNA, then it is another human being.
- Status