Abortion due to gender.

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NoAvailableName said:
Ok, I’ll start. Someone else shouldn’t have to die for YOUR problem. None of us self-created ourselves – we all had to rely on someone else. If you cannot have mercy on your son, why should God have mercy on you? If you cannot love a potential son, why don’t you want to fix the problem within you instead of making someone else die for it?
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I don’t think it’s a person, but I don’t want to turn this thread into a debate about abortion. If you want to debate my views about abortion, you can read them in this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=417320
 
That’s a little boy with a beating heart that can kick…and one that’s viable if born that early. Why wouldn’t you just place him? You know second and third trimester abortions are especially cruel.

And I know of at least two families who’ve tried for boys with sex selection, they have beautiful little girls from those procedures.

What is your issue with male children? Maybe you should work on that before you decide for children.

You know, people in China do the same to their little girls. You know what’s happening now? A lot of men are finding themselves without marriage prospects because there are simply not enough women. Not to mention that even people supporting abortion are horrified by people elsewhere doing this to their daughters…how different is it if it’s a boy?

You could raise a little boy to respect women and be kind. Many little children, regardless of gender, still want to cuddle, give hugs, read books with you, and play with toys. And even if he’s not experiencing things that are quintessentially female as he grows up, he can still love his mom and take cues about women from her. Not to mention that it would give him and your future husband something to bond over. Besides, what if your husband hopes for a boy?

I have both a sister and a brother. They’ve both blessed my life in many ways. Not to mention that I have two guy friends I look to as brothers. It was because the women in their lives taught them how to treat women.

Honestly, I think all these women have issues, issues they should work out before having babies. Wanting to destroy your children over their gender is not normal. And yes, as their bodies are formed and they are most likely viable by the time their mothers find out, it is destruction. It’s sick. Besides, if you do marry, it’s because a woman decided she’d have her baby boy. If every woman had that attitude, humanity wouldn’t be able to reproduce.
 
flyingfish said:
I’m going to get a lot of negative responses for this, but if I ever decide to have children and find out I’m pregnant with a boy I will abort and try again. Ideally I would control for this beforehand with sex selection services, but abortion would be a last resort option.

I don’t think I could love or raise a male child.
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Why do you need to share this? You are going to already decide now that you are going to kill your son because it’s a boy.

Maybe you should actually reconsider staying single. or at least disclose this to any man who would want to be with you… “Well in the future, if i am carrying your son, too bad.”

Very, very sad.
 
If abortion is okay for one reason, it is okay for any and every reason.
 
kage_ar said:
If abortion is okay for one reason, it is okay for any and every reason.
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Excellent point. If one can convince oneself abortion isn’t murdering an innocent human being, then it should be acceptable even because a woman doesn’t want to gain weight, or has plans around her due date, or wants to get drunk at a party planned for next month.

If one can’t, it’s never acceptable for any reason.

Perhaps going too far OT now, but the fact that many pro-choicers wince when they hear of the more frivolous reasons abortions are done for shows they feel it’s fundamentally a horrible act.
 
flyingfish said:
I’m going to get a lot of negative responses for this, but if I ever decide to have children and find out I’m pregnant with a boy I will abort and try again. Ideally I would control for this beforehand with sex selection services, but abortion would be a last resort option.

I don’t think I could love or raise a male child.
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Then why not just give the baby to someone who can, and maybe wants to acheive “gender balance” via the ONLY MORAL AND ACCEPTABLE WAY, by adopting?

In Christ,

Ellen
 
Also, I’d like to add this.

Part of being a mother means unconditional love. It means you love your child no matter what. Gender, disabilities, physical appearance, everything. Even if your child engages in wrong doing, you don’t tolerate it, but you love them.

I think if people think they need to design their children or if they’d abort them for something the child cannot control, then those people should not parent. EVER. Eugenics is a violation against God and humanity.

Yes, I’m going to say it’s disgusting, despicable, murder, and gruesome. You know why? Those were the attitudes that killed members of my family in WWII. Because part of my family was Jewish, they were “undesirable” and “unlovable”. Maybe they weren’t aborted as unborns, but the attitude was the same. Not only that, but I’m studying International Development and issues related to poverty, as well as issues relating to child abuse and domestic violence and it sickens me, SICKENS me that people do that to their children. Whether it’s abortion, infanticide, selling your child into slavery or the sex trade (when you KNOW that’s their fate), abandonment, or any type of abuse, it’s SICK.

Remember, the blood of the innocents cries from the ground. And God does not ignore their cries.

If I sound harsh, it’s because it’s an ugly thing. Maybe people don’t want to hear it. But it is.

There is a REASON the Church teaches what it does, when it comes to life.

If these women have psychological issues or whatever, my prayers are with them and I hope they get the help they need. I do have compassion, I do, but past issues are no excuse to murder a child. Just like past abuse does not make it acceptable for a parent to abuse their child. I still stand my ground. If you can’t love a child unconditionally, you shouldn’t try for one. And if you find yourself carrying one, entrust him or her to someone who can. It’s the only ethical way.
 
flyingfish said:
I’m going to get a lot of negative responses for this, but if I ever decide to have children and find out I’m pregnant with a boy I will abort and try again. Ideally I would control for this beforehand with sex selection services, but abortion would be a last resort option.

I don’t think I could love or raise a male child.
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I don’t understand. Why not?
 
flyingfish said:
I’m going to get a lot of negative responses for this, but if I ever decide to have children and find out I’m pregnant with a boy I will abort and try again. Ideally I would control for this beforehand with sex selection services, but abortion would be a last resort option.

I don’t think I could love or raise a male child.
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I would imagine if you couldn’t fathom loving or raising a male child, you wouldn’t be able to love or commit to a male husband. So maybe it won’t even be an issue.
 
tapiocapudding said:
flying fish- but why?? What is wrong with little boys?

When I first got pregnant I was sort of hoping for a little girl. But I had my DS and he is so precious to me. So sweet and loving and adorable. I would never want anything differently.

I don’t understand at all. I mean aside from the obvious issues, I don’t think gender selection is moral and I’m opposed to abortion for any reason but I think a frivolous reason like not wanting a male baby is especially tragic. I have a friend who also says if she ends up with a boy she’ll send him back. I think little boys are wonderful 🤷
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I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with little boys, I just don’t see myself ever being able to want to take the time to raise one. It would almost feel like a waste of my time. I don’t think I could be a good mother to a boy, simply because I wouldn’t want to spend any time with him, wouldn’t want to teach him, or do anything for him at all.

I can’t really explain why I feel this way, I definitely like men (the grown and attractive ones).
 
flyingfish said:
I don’t think there’s necessarily anything wrong with little boys, I just don’t see myself ever being able to want to take the time to raise one. It would almost feel like a waste of my time. I don’t think I could be a good mother to a boy, simply because I wouldn’t want to spend any time with him, wouldn’t want to teach him, or do anything for him at all.

I can’t really explain why I feel this way, I definitely like men (the grown and attractive ones).
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That is really extreme.

You do realize that finding the gender of the baby by sonogram happens at about 20 weeks? You would not feel anything for that poor little child, your child, just because it’s a boy. You won’t feel moved by his little kicks, his hic-ups?

What about your future husband? How can he trust a mother that would kill his own son, just because it’s a boy. How could he feel safe knowing that there is a 50/50 chance, HIS son won’t be allowed to live?

I mean this sincerely, I pray that God softens your heart. 😦
 
HouseArrest said:
I would imagine if you couldn’t fathom loving or raising a male child, you wouldn’t be able to love or commit to a male husband. So maybe it won’t even be an issue.
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Read #253 on this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=417320 from the poster you replied to. Apparently, they don’t think a 1 yr old is a person either.
flyingfish said:
You’re reading right, I don’t think humans become people until consciousness develops. 1 year olds aren’t yet aware of their existence, and their minds are not at the level where I would consider them people and worry about them being killed any more than I worry about animals being killed. .
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I am trying to figure out if you are saying things like this to get people all shook up. Or, do you actually believe this. Because, a mentally stable person regardless of being pro choice or pro life all agrees that once a baby is born he/she is a person. Someone who thinks a baby, no less, a 1 year old is not a person has some mental issues. Im not trying to be rude, but the thought pattern you have in believing a 1 year old is not a person isn’t common sense. kwim?
flyingfish said:
My thinking is that consciousness makes a living thing a person, without it, it’s not a person and I don’t worry about killing it.
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So, you wouldn’t worry about killing someone who is sleeping right? Because when someone is asleep, they are unconscious. I am just curious where you stand on that.
flyingfish said:
7 year olds have consciousness, the unborn and newborns for example do not. Still, if you kill someone else’s newborn without their consent, you are destroying a baby they spent 9 months producing, may have spent even more time and money trying to conceive. It is a serious offense against them to destroy the newborn.
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You do realize there are laws correct? I mean, even if you had their consent, it’s considered murder and off to jail you go.
flyingfish said:
This is true, and I wonder sometimes if I can call myself Catholic because my beliefs are so at odds in many areas. I even made a thread about this. .
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Yeah, I wouldn’t consider you a catholic. Again, not trying to be rude but your beliefs are not really common sense.
flyingfish said:
I think to a point a child’s “value” does increase with age. I wouldn’t feel too sad for example if a young child died, because that child doesn’t really have a mind yet, doesn’t really understand life, dream of the future and so on. But once a certain level of consciousness is reached, I’d say all conscious beings have equal value. I don’t think this level has to be very high either. I don’t have children of my own, and I haven’t interacted with children since I was a child myself. But I think maybe by 7 years old or so it’s already there, maybe even earlier.

But from what I understand of the science, consciousness develops around the age of 2-3 years old. Before that, there isn’t a self aware person.
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Ok, so you said you would never love a boy so you would abort. But you are also saying that a 1 year old is not a person and wouldn’t worry about them being killed more than you would worry about an animal. . Let’s say you couldn’t have a baby, and wanted to adopt (just a fake scenario). Mainstream society would consider you unfit and you would never be able to adopt even a 10 yr old with your views. You are mentally unfit to parent.
 
flyingfish said:
I don’t think it’s a person…
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So this isn’t a person? What exactly would it be then? It was taken yesterday and looks a lot more like a person than a “blob of tissue…”



I’m probably not going to hang around for the answer. I’ll pray for you, but this conversation is a little too disgusting for me to even continue reading at this point.
 
Okay, so after I posted my last post I read the post above mine (which I promised myself I wouldn’t do) and saw that apparently my other daughter (Sadie) isn’t a person either?

Now we’re entering into the realm of the absurd…
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
That is really extreme.

You do realize that finding the gender of the baby by sonogram happens at about 20 weeks? You would not feel anything for that poor little child, your child, just because it’s a boy. You won’t feel moved by his little kicks, his hic-ups?

What about your future husband? How can he trust a mother that would kill his own son, just because it’s a boy. How could he feel safe knowing that there is a 50/50 chance, HIS son won’t be allowed to live?

I mean this sincerely, I pray that God softens your heart. 😦
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My choice would be to hire people who do sex selection before the fact, so that I wouldn’t have to worry about having an abortion. Believe me, I have no desire to have an abortion, and especially not at 5 months of pregnancy. I can’t imagine it being a very easy medical procedure at that stage, and if I could avoid it, I certainly would.

My hope would be to marry a man who wouldn’t care that I didn’t want a boy. Unfortunately many men are the opposite of me, and want a boy rather than a girl. Many men are also pro choice and wouldn’t care about me having an abortion. The biggest concern would obviously be the many men who must have a son.
 
magic_stick said:
So, you wouldn’t worry about killing someone who is sleeping right? Because when someone is asleep, they are unconscious
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I also talked about this in that thread. In short, the brain of a sleeping person is already capable of generating consciousness, so I would not be okay with killing someone who is sleeping.

If their brain lost the ability to generate consciousness (like say if they were injured to the point of being brain dead), then I wouldn’t consider them a person anymore.
Mainstream society would consider you unfit and you would never be able to adopt even a 10 yr old with your views. You are mentally unfit to parent.
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In case you are wondering, I don’t go around killing 1 year olds or otherwise mistreating children. I am generally a helpful person.
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RedSoxWife:
Okay, so after I posted my last post I read the post above mine (which I promised myself I wouldn’t do) and saw that apparently my other daughter (Sadie) isn’t a person either?
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If your daughter isn’t self aware, I wouldn’t say she’s a person. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think she’s valuable, she clearly means a lot to you, and just because I don’t think killing humans without consciousness is murder doesn’t mean I don’t think that it’s not a crime. If someone harmed your daughter, it would obviously cause you a lot of pain, and would be a severe offense against you.
 
Litcrit said:
Perhaps going too far OT now, but the fact that many pro-choicers wince when they hear of the more frivolous reasons abortions are done for shows they feel it’s fundamentally a horrible act.
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Like an other said, I also do not want to get into an abortion debate on this thread, but as a prochoicer I have to respond to this specific sentence. I support choice in pregnancy and for parenting for a multitude of reasons that in reality my argument is not founded in the reason why a woman should be legally able to choose, therefor the reason for the abortion is unimportant in my support for her to have that legal option. The only time that i want to know the reason is for research purposes so that I can fight for trying to help those situations…for example if more people get an abortion because of economic reasons that they would normally not choose that route, then I will strive to find ways to help out in economical times for those women, such as supporting groups that help teenage or poor mothers. If another reason is for health problems, I will spend my time supporting groups that look for cures and further research so those health complications become more rare, thus the choice to abort need not present itself as much.

Because of the above, I find nothing hypocritical about expressing my opinion about women that choose to abort for gender reasons. My opinion in those situations is separate from my political stance on the legality of abortion. I can be personally agaisnt a reason for a womans abortion, just like I am personally against a woman’s reason to give a child up for adoption, without effecting my argument for the legality of said woman choosing either route.
 
flyingfish said:
I’m going to get a lot of negative responses for this, but if I ever decide to have children and find out I’m pregnant with a boy I will abort and try again. Ideally I would control for this beforehand with sex selection services, but abortion would be a last resort option.

I don’t think I could love or raise a male child.
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flyingfish said:
My choice would be to hire people who do sex selection before the fact, so that I wouldn’t have to worry about having an abortion. Believe me, I have no desire to have an abortion, and especially not at 5 months of pregnancy. I can’t imagine it being a very easy medical procedure at that stage, and if I could avoid it, I certainly would.

My hope would be to marry a man who wouldn’t care that I didn’t want a boy. Unfortunately many men are the opposite of me, and want a boy rather than a girl. Many men are also pro choice and wouldn’t care about me having an abortion. The biggest concern would obviously be the many men who must have a son.
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You did say you would have an abortion if it was a boy.
Now you are worried because it would be at 5 months…are you worried for the baby, or for yourself?

Are you going to do IVF and then discard the boys? So your choice would be one dead baby due to abortion, or a few dead babies due to IVF.
 
Ewww…You think killing newborns is OK???

EWWWWWWW!!!

There are more issues than men wanting a boy here…

Sorry, but that’s despicable.

A baby can feel pain. A baby can cry. Babies do have personalities. A baby can smile. A baby feels hunger. A baby needs love. YOU THINK IT’S OK FOR SOMEONE TO SNUFF THAT LIFE OUT???

Even pro-choice guys would be revolted. And many of the pro-choice ones I know are only if a woman’s life is in danger. If their girlfriend or wife was pregnant, they WANT the baby!

Let me tell you, someone murders my newborn and I put them six feet under. And if I did that to my own child, I would expect them to punish me to the fullest extent of the law.

And let me tell you, the only reason we have grown attractive men is because women and men decide to let their little boys LIVE!!!

This reminds me of the time I walked through a gas chamber in a concentration camp in Germany…Yes, because it was PRECISELY those attitudes that killed that many people…including babies and small children, as well as their mothers.

Like I said, being a mom means unconditional love. You obviously have conditions, so yes, that does make you unfit to parent. And it doesn’t matter to me that you wouldn’t actually mistreat a young child. But I do find your attitudes thus far despicable and disturbing. That is a dangerous line you’re crossing. Maybe I wouldn’t worry about you murdering my child. I’d just pray to God you weren’t responsible for the verdict of the murderer’s trial!
 
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