Abortion Ethical Struggles

[Rau]

I disagree with what I have bolded although the word" solely" lets you off that hook a little,

I assume you are saying you reject this aspect of Catholic moral theology, as I assure you my statement is accurate. You might like to review this section in the catechism for an authoritative statement of the principles of our catholic moral theology.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a4.htm

Further discussion rejecting the idea of the balance of consequences as having the capacity to make intrinsically wrong acts acceptable will be found in Veritatis Splendor w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html around paragraph 75.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Hello all,

I am pro-life (baby is person, avoid abortion at all costs, etc), but I am having trouble answering a question for myself: In the case where a woman will die without an abortion is it morally permissible to abort the child?

I think you already see the answer in the previous posts. I would like to comment on the second part.

As a bit of an intuition pump, I’ve likening it to two people on a cliff face. Person A is holding onto the cliff with one hand and with their other is holding onto person B who is unconscious (I know unborn can feel pain, etc, but they cannot speak to give consent to be “dropped”). If person A does not let go of person B, then they will both die. If person A does let go, then he can pull himself to safety. Is it morally permissible for person A to let go of person B?

This is a tough question. There are problems in using it as an analogy, but I’ll set those aside.
Consenting to be dropped is actually a sin, too… though perhaps not mortal sin…
There is, after all, a possibilty that upon impact the woman will break every bone in her body. She will bounce up to three feet off the ground, and then hit a second time.
But, she might survive. I met a man who’se parachute didn’t open. He jumped from higher than any cliff. He survived.

I am pretty certain the supporter can morally let go after holding on for as long as possible. The intention of the person letting go is not to KILL the other person. They do not open their hand in ORDER to kill the other person.

But if they let go before maintaining the other person’s life to the last possible moment, they are despairing. That’s a sin in itself. They are denying that the person can regain consciousness, or for a rescue crew to arrive. When a person puts their own convenience before the other person’s right to life; they sin.

Obviously, there will be regrets and the cliff should be avoided at all costs, but let’s face it: life is messy.

So is impact on the ground from a thousand feet.

My intuition says that person A is permitted to let go of person B in this situation.
However, this seems to clash with my pro-life views.

I think you can see the difference, now. No clash, just a smash.

 

[Rosebud77]

I assume you are saying you reject this aspect of Catholic moral theology, as I assure you my statement is accurate. You might like to review this section in the catechism for an authoritative statement of the principles of our catholic moral theology.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a4.htm

Further discussion rejecting the idea of the balance of consequences as having the capacity to make intrinsically wrong acts acceptable will be found in Veritatis Splendor w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html around paragraph 75.

My dear; and I am not being sarcastic… I have my own spiritual guides thank you and at my advanced age… I know that your great interest and preoccupation is in these … “discussions” that are not true discussions but that is for you not for me

I have read and studied the catechism and other things and am at peace re my conclusions etc.With my values and way of life.

We all need to remember that God is love. something you seem to lose sight of?

Please excuse me now? My family are hard put to it to feed the hungry and clothe the naked who are Jesus and d my limited energy and time in these my increasingly frail years are given fully to that … so much need and so few working at it, not right that we have so much and they so little so I ma giving more and more to that cause,

As you seem to fee the need to reply to so many of my mails I am taking the liberty of freeing you from that obligation and biddng thee a prayerful farewell.

Be blessed and at peace my dear. Blessings from Ireland,

 

[Rau]

My dear; and I am not being sarcastic… I have my own spiritual guides thank you…

And you are welcome to hold them up, and share them with us, but you ought to acknowledge that you choose a guide other than the Church.

We all need to remember that God is love. something you seem to lose sight of?

I can understand that a person with their “own spiritual guides”, superior to the Church apparently, might also judge their understanding of God to be superior.

 

[Rosebud77]

Tragic but a beautiful story of courage. No man has greater love than to lay down his life for a friend.

It was in Buncrana, Co Donegal. The baby;s mother was on a day trip to France with friends and the rest of her family were in the car. Came home to find the tragedy and that her partner had told the rescuer. “Save my baby.”

 

[HelenRose]

It was in Buncrana, Co Donegal. The baby;s mother was on a day trip to France with friends and the rest of her family were in the car. Came home to find the tragedy and that her partner had told the rescuer. “Save my baby.”

There are many stories like this. It is the way it should be.

 

[XndrK]

Sounds like a tragedy here a while ago… A car slid off a jetty into the sea. Full of people, A man swam out to them ; the door electrics had gone with the water, and the driver had got out through a broken window. He went back in to pass the baby to the rescuer. Lost his life by doing that as the car went down.

Not a question of ethics but of selfless love. Which these women who abort lack totally. All self with them.

[emphasis mine]

A bit judgmental, mayhap?

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

Not a question of ethics but of selfless love. Which these women who abort lack totally. All self with them.

And unfeeling and uncaring. Society has no feeling at all for what those “unseen” preborn creatures hidden inside of the womb have to endure. Truth be told, when I see or hear the word “Abortion,” I don’t think of a woman and her “rights.” I think of a pair of latex gloves with innocent massacred bloodshed all over them.

 

[HelenRose]

A bit judgmental, mayhap?

Is it worst to be judgmental than to cut up, dismember, behead, vacuum out or soak a child in saline solution in order to kill her or him,

 

[HelenRose]

I have wondered what the reaction of society would be if an insane person ran inside a neo-natal ward and started killing and cutting up these precious preemies. For the life of me I can not see the difference between these sweet delicate little souls than those of the same age and size who are yet to be born.