Abortion, excommunication, and confession

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So today, I read that abortion is not just a mortal sin but carries auto excommunication.

When I was baptized into a non-denomination church, I still supported the cause of homosexuality movements and abortions, and was a member of a Canadian party that supports them (so please do not put US politics here – Canadian politics welcome! 😉). To my recollection, once I start to do my RCIA, I no longer affiliate with those movements, or that party. However, I had not confessed those sins until recently.

So a few weeks ago, during my confessions, I recall those two, and confess to the priest, with words pretty much like that (I think i said “When I was baptized as an Evangelical but before I join catholic church, I supported gays and abortion.” Cannot recall if I mentioned about joining a political party; assume no.) So he listened and gave me my absolution and penance.

So my question is this:
  1. Is that consider a good (valid) confession or not?
  2. Am I currently in the state of auto excommunication or not?
  3. Was I (in the past) in a state of auto excommunication?
P.S. Just so be cleared, I am not a doctor, so I did not perform abortion. Nor am I a woman, so cannot have abortion myself. However, I did supported those ideology in the past, and by those ideology and my own choice joined that party which has support of those ideology as a core tenant.
 
Jestersage said:
So today, I read that abortion is not just a mortal sin but carries auto excommunication.

When I was baptized into a non-denomination church, I still supported the cause of homosexuality movements and abortions, and was a member of a Canadian party that supports them (so please do not put US politics here – Canadian politics welcome! 😉). To my recollection, once I start to do my RCIA, I no longer affiliate with those movements, or that party. However, I had not confessed those sins until recently.

So a few weeks ago, during my confessions, I recall those two, and confess to the priest, with words pretty much like that (I think i said “When I was baptized as an Evangelical but before I join catholic church, I supported gays and abortion.” Cannot recall if I mentioned about joining a political party; assume no.) So he listened and gave me my absolution and penance.

So my question is this:
  1. Is that consider a good (valid) confession or not?
  2. Am I currently in the state of auto excommunication or not?
  3. Was I (in the past) in a state of auto excommunication?
P.S. Just so be cleared, I am not a doctor, so I did not perform abortion. Nor am I a woman, so cannot have abortion myself. However, I did supported those ideology in the past, and by those ideology and my own choice joined that party which has support of those ideology as a core tenant.
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  1. Presumably
  2. No
  3. No
 
Jestersage said:
So today, I read that abortion is not just a mortal sin but carries auto excommunication.

When I was baptized into a non-denomination church, I still supported the cause of homosexuality movements and abortions, and was a member of a Canadian party that supports them (so please do not put US politics here – Canadian politics welcome! 😉). To my recollection, once I start to do my RCIA, I no longer affiliate with those movements, or that party. However, I had not confessed those sins until recently.

So a few weeks ago, during my confessions, I recall those two, and confess to the priest, with words pretty much like that (I think i said “When I was baptized as an Evangelical but before I join catholic church, I supported gays and abortion.” Cannot recall if I mentioned about joining a political party; assume no.) So he listened and gave me my absolution and penance.

So my question is this:
  1. Is that consider a good (valid) confession or not?
  2. Am I currently in the state of auto excommunication or not?
  3. Was I (in the past) in a state of auto excommunication?
P.S. Just so be cleared, I am not a doctor, so I did not perform abortion. Nor am I a woman, so cannot have abortion myself. However, I did supported those ideology in the past, and by those ideology and my own choice joined that party which has support of those ideology as a core tenant.
Click to expand...
Beyond Father’s excellent answer above, I will simply add that excommunication, when the conditions are actually met to incur it, is an ecclesiastical penalty prescribed by ecclesiastical law. Ecclesiastical law did not apply to you when you were non-Catholic.

It is worth repeating that serious sin is not simply a list of proscribed activities. In order to incur subjective moral guilt for serious matter, that is to say: to commit a mortal sin, the three criteria still apply:
  1. it must involve matter that is serious in se
  2. you must have the knowledge that this, in fact, involves serious matter
  3. and then, with that knowledge, you must make a choice by a free and non-coerced act
 
If you didn’t purposefully leave anything out at the time of confession you’re fine.
 
Jestersage said:
P.S. Just so be cleared, I am not a doctor, so I did not perform abortion. Nor am I a woman, so cannot have abortion myself. However, I did supported those ideology in the past, and by those ideology and my own choice joined that party which has support of those ideology as a core tenant.
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Only a Catholic could be excommunicated, you were not a Catholic when you had these affiliations and beliefs It was not **possible **for you to be excommunicated. Excommunication is a penalty of Catholic church law. Church law applies to those who are Catholics.

Moreover, the penalty for excommunication as it pertains to abortion is not merely for having thoughts or beliefs about abortion, or supporting political parties, or anything else.

It is for **procuring **an abortion only. It is a very specific penalty in canon law.
 
The reason I ask is because I am wondering whether I fall to the following, according to ewtn.com/expert/answers/abortio2.htm:

“Conspirators who incur the excommunication can be defined as those who make access to the abortion possible. This certainly includes …] others whose counsel and encouragement made it morally possible for the woman.”

Unlike your typical NDP/Green voters, I would be considered as a peon in the party – Though for the most part just volunteered for the election phone banks, for one election I was actually a paid staff for Chinese outreach.

My concern, I guess, is what if I was wrong and that I still supported the party by volunteering, even after the Church accept me? While I am certain the talking points includes a gleeful support for gay marriage (It’s Canada, okay?), I cannot remember if we talked about abortion or not.

I will still talk to the priest as detail as possible.
 
Jestersage said:
The reason I ask is because I am wondering whether I fall to the following, according to ewtn.com/expert/answers/abortio2.htm:

“Conspirators who incur the excommunication can be defined as those who make access to the abortion possible. This certainly includes …] others whose counsel and encouragement made it morally possible for the woman.”

Unlike your typical NDP/Green voters, I would be considered as a peon in the party – Though for the most part just volunteered for the election phone banks, for one election I was actually a paid staff for Chinese outreach.

My concern, I guess, is what if I was wrong and that I still supported the party by volunteering, even after the Church accept me? While I am certain the talking points includes a gleeful support for gay marriage (It’s Canada, okay?), I cannot remember if we talked about abortion or not.

I will still talk to the priest as detail as possible.
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No. It’s exceedingly rare for someone to be excommunicated even for procuring an abortion. For instance, the person has to be 16 years of age, aware that the crime incurs the penalty of excommunication, and not be under duress. “Duress” includes things such as pressure from parents, pressure from a boyfriend, pressure from a boyfriend’s parents, and a myriad of other things. Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that you were Catholic at the time. The very fact that you are asking the question means you WEREN’T excommunicated, since it means you didn’t know. You can’t be excommunicated accidentally. It’s a very high bar to clear, so to speak.

It always bothers me (and I’m not saying you’re doing this) when people say, “Abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication,” without qualifying it. I’ve even heard priests do this. I can’t imagine how many women (and men) have turned away from the Church and from God’s mercy because they heard someone once say that abortion incurs an excommunication. The average lay Catholic has no idea about the other requirements necessary to incur this penalty. I suspect there are a myriad of women who didn’t know this, heard once that they were excommunicated, figured, “Well, there’s no hope for me,” and left, never to return.
 
buc_fan33 said:
It always bothers me (and I’m not saying you’re doing this) when people say, “Abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication,” without qualifying it. I’ve even heard priests do this. I can’t imagine how many women (and men) have turned away from the Church and from God’s mercy because they heard someone once say that abortion incurs an excommunication. The average lay Catholic has no idea about the other requirements necessary to incur this penalty. I suspect there are a myriad of women who didn’t know this, heard once that they were excommunicated, figured, “Well, there’s no hope for me,” and left, never to return.
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Thank you so much for saying this!!! 👍

It seems to me that “excommunication” is one of the most misunderstood parts of Catholicism, and too many “arm chair theologians” want to put people into tiny little boxes without looking at the “big picture”.

We are blessed to you and other priests who can come in and sort out all this confusion.

May God continue to bless you and your ministry.
 
As others have pointed out:

(1) You were not Catholic at the time and only Catholics can be excommunicated.

(2) “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication” (Code of Canon Law, canon 1398). This applies to those who procure it, not just people who believed it was okay. And as Father pointed out above, even more is needed than that.

However, even if your level of support qualified under Canon Law (which it doesn’t) and even if the excommunication penalty in Canon Law applied to you as a non-Catholic (which it didn’t), most priests have been given by their bishop the authority to lift this excommunication (which Pope Francis also reinforced).

Excommunication is not something that someone receives which then kicks them out of the Catholic Church for good. It is a specific penalty that is given in specific situations in order to bring about repentance. The purpose is not to kick a person out because their kind is not welcome. The purpose is to let them know how serious and grave their actions are to encourage them to repent and come back.

Now, certain excommunications can only be lifted by the pope, but in the case of abortion, most (if not all) priests can lift this excommunication when it applies.

So be at peace!
 
buc_fan33 said:
No. It’s exceedingly rare for someone to be excommunicated even for procuring an abortion. For instance, the person has to be 16 years of age, aware that the crime incurs the penalty of excommunication, and not be under duress. “Duress” includes things such as pressure from parents, pressure from a boyfriend, pressure from a boyfriend’s parents, and a myriad of other things. Let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that you were Catholic at the time. The very fact that you are asking the question means you WEREN’T excommunicated, since it means you didn’t know. You can’t be excommunicated accidentally. It’s a very high bar to clear, so to speak.

It always bothers me (and I’m not saying you’re doing this) when people say, “Abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication,” without qualifying it. I’ve even heard priests do this. I can’t imagine how many women (and men) have turned away from the Church and from God’s mercy because they heard someone once say that abortion incurs an excommunication. The average lay Catholic has no idea about the other requirements necessary to incur this penalty. I suspect there are a myriad of women who didn’t know this, heard once that they were excommunicated, figured, “Well, there’s no hope for me,” and left, never to return.
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Thanks. And I guess if go by my logic, half of the Catholics in America, including priest, are auto excommunicated since seems like Catholic’s political support is half and half, and there are 2 parties - unlike Canada, which have 1 centralist left led by a “Catholic”, 2 left, and 1 right who is mum on the issue – we call them red tories)
 
Someone please correct me if I am wrong…

There is no such thing as an “automatic excommunication”. It has to be from an authority.
 
dconklin said:
Someone please correct me if I am wrong…

There is no such thing as an “automatic excommunication”. It has to be from an authority.
Click to expand...
There are automatic excommunications. It’s referred to as “latae sententiae,” meaning “sentence passed.” The excommunication is levied by the law itself. That said, as others have pointed out, it’s extremely rare that this happens since most people are not aware of the existence of the penalty at the time they commit the action which carries it, and knowledge is necessary for the penalty to take effect.

-Fr ACEGC
 
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