Abortion for rape victims

[rain_bow]

How about this link?
nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

<<A single sperm penetrates the mother’s egg cell, and the resulting cell is called a zygote. The zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child.>>

I have seen the link before. I am going to copy and past the 1st para.
**
A single sperm penetrates the mother’s egg cell, and the resulting cell is called a zygote. The zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child. Half of the genetic information comes from the mother’s egg and half from the father’s sperm. The zygote spends the next few days traveling down the Fallopian tube and divides to form a ball of cells.**

Yes necessary to become a child , not a child yet.

and their is no reason to force a woman to carry such information, in order to create a human being that is unwanted.BTW, this information came not via love but via cruelty, so this woman has this right to destroy it( genetic information), before it become a child in her womb.And In fact a woman can’t be pregnant before implantation, so what make you think that it is a human being?

 

[rain_bow]

No its not just but treatment, its just but murder:shrug: Unfortuante Doctors today are now killing the elders and choosing who should live also. SO unwanted babys, unwanteted elders. Who should we kill next???

Only one senerio where the womens live not the babys is saved. its rare it breaks down like this. Complications arrive during delivery. The can’t get the baby out. They have to cut the woman to get the baby.

Now heres how it works. They ask before they cut, who do you want save if only one can be saved. Most familys chose the mother, if the mother had some pre-written agreement I don’t know. Both may live and it usually works that way. When things head south though the choice has to be made. When She is bleeding out and baby is trying to be saved, and troubles are still there. Its a problem

And if they saved the mother, its was still abortion. Don’t what to tell you.

Your last paragraph is incorrect. Murder is murder, abortion is murder. And yes removing this terrible mark as you call it is…Murder. No its not abuse, what your talking about IS ABUSE and a total disregard for the sanctity of life. Your talking about MURDER. What part of your strawman arguement are you missing when confronted with Truth.

I am not talking about the babies but talking about zygote before implantation, and also before fetal stages. and your saints also supported it .

Saint Augustine believed that an early abortion is not murder … St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, and Pope Gregory XIV also believed that a fetus does not have a soul until “quickening,” or when the fetus begins to kick and move, and therefore early abortion was not murder, though later abortion was

 

[Jennifer_J]

I have seen the link before. I am going to copy and past the 1st para.
**
A single sperm penetrates the mother’s egg cell, and the resulting cell is called a zygote. The zygote contains all of the genetic information (DNA) necessary to become a child.** Half of the genetic information comes from the mother’s egg and half from the father’s sperm. The zygote spends the next few days traveling down the Fallopian tube and divides to form a ball of cells.

Yes necessary to become a child , not a child yet.

and their is no reason to force a woman to carry such information, in order to create a human being that is unwanted.BTW, this information came not via love but via cruelty, so this woman has this right to destroy it( genetic information), before it become a child in her womb.And In fact a woman can’t be pregnant before implantation, so what make you think that it is a human being?

Those cells are fully human. They cannot become a fish or owl or dog or cat. The human was created instantly at conception. Rape is a terrible thing, but to compound a terrible thing with an even more terrible thing (murder) does nothing to heal the woman. Because it contains all the genetic material of a unique human being.

 

[rain_bow]

Those cells are fully human. They cannot become a fish or owl or dog or cat. The human was created instantly at conception. Rape is a terrible thing, but to compound a terrible thing with an even more terrible thing (murder) does nothing to heal the woman. Because it contains all the genetic material of a unique human being.

Those cells are not human being, not at all. and remember dog, fish and owl also have soul if human has. but since we are talking about human so lets stay on topic.And removing the cells that came from terrible abuse, is a treatment and healing, and it can not be more terrible thing(murder),but saving a woman.But if it stay in womb after implantation then,slowly it grows bigger and then start kick in later stage. Though I even do not consider it a human being,after start kicking. So no reason to accept that,those stem cells are human being.

 

[rain_bow]

No, you did not; you asked a series of questions instead.Your question has been answered on this thread.

Yes I have started to ask questions. If you can answer then do, if not then do not answer with another question, I just wanted to say that,if you are not satisfied then simply ignore the fact if you wish, thank you.

 

[Aaron1988]

I’m new to catholic beliefs, and I was previously aetheist, and I was on the fence about abortion until 3 1/2 years ago when I met my ex. The reason I am now Pro life is because she had a little boy from a previous relationship, and raising her son with her, experiencing parenthood at such a young age (I was 19 when I met my ex) I have seen the joys of being a parent without ever biologically becoming one and I knew after I had met him that abortion IS murder and I want no part in the death of a child.

All children deserve to be loved and cherished, children are a wonderful, amazing gift.

Rape is absolutly terrible and it makes me feel physically sick that someone could do that to another person, another human being, rapists disgust me to the very pit of my stomach.
It is not the childs fault, the child is compleatly innocent from any wrong doing. I don’t know how I would react if this happened to my wife but I know I would support her and comfort her in anyway I could, and I would raise the child as my own with love, kindness and compassion and they would be a member of our family, another of our children. (if she wants to keep the child and (s)he not be adopted. -Aaron

 

[Jennifer_J]

Those cells are not human being, not at all. and remember dog, fish and owl also have soul if human has. but since we are talking about human so lets stay on topic.And removing the cells that came from terrible abuse, is a treatment and healing, and it can not be more terrible thing(murder),but saving a woman.But if it stay in womb after implantation then,slowly it grows bigger and then start kick in later stage. Though I even do not consider it a human being,after start kicking. So no reason to accept that,those stem cells are human being.

These dividing and differentiating cells are a human being. A stomach cell cannot grow to be a human, but when a sperm and egg meet, a human is formed. If it’s not human, than what is it? When do you think life begins? What is life? While it’s true that all living things have souls, the human soul is something VERY different than an animal soul. These are not stem cells, they are a human being in the earliest stage of forming, just like a fetus, infant, toddler, adolescent, young adult, adult, and geriatric adult. All different stages of human development.

(name removed by moderator) has provided quite a few authoritative sources for you! Thanks (name removed by moderator)!

 

[rain_bow]

Ok so that wasn’t you. You started at they day of your birth, or was it when you stopped breast feeding, or when you could survive on your own without your parents? Did you begin with the earliest memory that you can still rembember? When did you begin?

ya that was not me, but that was just a natural process to give me birth.It was me when I was able to survive outside my mother’s womb and before it my mother was going under the process to make her own wanted child,that is her husband’s.Then she gave me birth and make me survive outside womb. Since them I am human being.

Why care fore the sick, the elderly, terminally ill, those with learning disablities, those who are refugees and can’t survie in their own countries. Lots of people regardless of race, religion, economic background, or physical ablility cannot survive without the support of others in some way or another. Do you exist without other people in your life?

those peoples are not embryo, but fully human being,later became disable, that’s why I care them.

So am I. Your point being? Lots of people living have been the ‘product of rape’. (They are the same as you and I. Given the choice, none of us (presumably) would choose to abort ourselves).

Because their mothers did not go under abortion and let the stem cells grow in their womb and that’s why they are product of rape and also human being and innocent. But it was no harm if those cells were destroyed before the production. It’s the choice of the women, who are led by pro life idea.

But if anyone do not want to carry the stem cells,those came via rape, you also have no right to wash out their brain by saying that,those stem cells are human being and your own child, so how can a mother kill their own child?

actually those poor girls are just programmed to follow it blindly, so I do not expect better from robots.

Hardly. since in the natural process, 1/4 million sperm aren’t ‘successfull’ even when sex leads to conception.

How do you know that which one is successful to lead conception? So here is also a chance of killing.

As you state it begins with the zygote. Where there is no zygote there is no new life to begin with.

where is no sperms or eggs their is no zygote too, so masturbation is killing too.

The zygote then grows into fetus ect etc to hopefully the geriatric.
As to abortionists not getting the death penalty, in some places its not against the law. That still doesn’t mean its right.

Not really, a killer is always a killer, so every killer should get the same penalty.

Sorry if I take this a step further. But it seems as if this is something personal to you. If so I’m sorry if youv’e been affected

by this.

It’s alright and I am not affected by this thanks. I am a man and humanist, and indeed feminist minded.And this is just an argument

That doesn’t mean you can be placated and patronised though. If taking a gun out and blowing someones head off is wrong beacuse it is killing, then killing itself is wrong regardless of the method.

Killing is always killing. I do not want to die soon, does not matter if my death come as car accident or food poisoning

The rationalisation of when life begins is an attempt to legitimise killing the unborn by saying its not a life to begin with. The only problem is, life begins, biologically at the zygote, even if you don’t believe it is infused with a soul at that point.
If you would hope someone wouldn’t murder you now, it follows you would wish it wouldn’t have happened at an earlier stage of your development.

Provide scientific article instead of emotions or religious texts, thanks.

 

[rain_bow]

I can not buy them because in my country internet banking is not available. So better provide some link where I can read articles. Then i will find that, what type of science you are talking about, real science or religious version of science, thanks.

 

[rain_bow]

I found PDF files, I will download and read. But It will take time.

 

[rain_bow]

OP, you seem to have a very poor understanding of human reproduction and human biology.

Indeed, according to those peoples who imprisoned Galileo as heretic and now showing respect as a great scientist after the confession of former pope .Well former pope was a good man who tried to balance something, apologized for genocide in middle ages and for other sensitive stuffs.I really honor him,honestly speaking.Only if he would realize that, stem cells are not human being!As some of his ancestors realized,and also Saint Augustine.

 

[davidv]

Indeed, according to those peoples who imprisoned Galileo as heretic and now showing respect as a great scientist after the confession of former pope .Well former pope was a good man who tried to balance something, apologized for genocide in middle ages and for other sensitive stuffs.I really honor him,honestly speaking.Only if he would realize that, stem cells are not human being!As some of his ancestors realized,and also Saint Augustine.

When did any Pope say that stem cells are human beings?

Where is your scientific evidence of the claims you make above. What does Galileo have to do with abortion or when a human being begins?

Maybe you can take your own advice and present reasoned positions, instead of the emotional appeals above.

 

[rain_bow]

Indeed my friend, The Da Vinci Code is the highest selling book and Dan Brown, earned 100million USD for this book and movie based on it. So do you want to take it as an Ideal catholic book? .

 

[rain_bow]

When did any Pope say that stem cells are human beings?

Where is your scientific evidence of the claims you make above. What does Galileo have to do with abortion or when a human being begins?

Maybe you can take your own advice and present reasoned positions, instead of the emotional appeals above.

Listen I use his name to show that how scientific you peoples are, ok?I read the history of scientists were harassed by church.It’s Just like a poster asked me if I went to any school or carried books with me .Both has no relation with the thread. But my intention was clear.I want to say that these peoples are providing the scientific arguments while their science is based on religious teachings. any religion is totally opposite to science. In another thread we will talk about Creation of Adam OK? Not in this thread…

 

[Jennifer_J]

Indeed, according to those peoples who imprisoned Galileo as heretic and now showing respect as a great scientist after the confession of former pope .Well former pope was a good man who tried to balance something, apologized for genocide in middle ages and for other sensitive stuffs.I really honor him,honestly speaking.Only if he would realize that, stem cells are not human being!As some of his ancestors realized,and also Saint Augustine.

Galileo got into trouble, not because of his science, but because of his disobedience. You are mistaken that St Augustine or any other fathers of the faith thought that abortion was ever okay. There was debate about quickening and ensoulement, but that was never used as a reason to allow abortion–it is always taught as morally sinful to take a life, even preborn life.

Honestly, it would be great if you actually did some research BEFORE coming on here and spouting off your views and opinions on what the Church teaches.

 

[rain_bow]

Galileo got into trouble, not because of his science, but because of his disobedience. You are mistaken that St Augustine or any other fathers of the faith thought that abortion was ever okay. There was debate about quickening and ensoulement, but that was never used as a reason to allow abortion–it is always taught as morally sinful to take a life, even preborn life.

Honestly, it would be great if you actually did some research BEFORE coming on here and spouting off your views and opinions on what the Church teaches.

I have posted a wiki link and it clearly said that what Augustin and other 2 popes stated. Do you think that I suddenly found it and posted? no my friend, Wikipedia is my favorite website.

 

[rain_bow]

**Right is still right, wrong is still wrong.
**

 

[rain_bow]

Then you imperfectly know their teaching, I’m sorry. Your doesn’t supercede theirs. There is no solid basis to place the creature before the creator. No religion worldwide ever does this, only man in imperfect understand. From Budda to Confusious right down the line. None place the creature before the creator. Or there own wisdom before one whom then knew would be sent.

What quantifys your thinking? Man knowledge remains in the beginging of God, his is infinate on a geometric line in both directions, mans is not his is a ray with a begining then proceeds to infinate. Animals have a stop and start line in geometric thinking.

Peace

Sorry to say I do not believe in any religion or God.Thanks.

 

[rain_bow]

Hahaha I am saying that $470 cost does not make it a pure scientific book. If you are just inspired by something, you will buy it with 1000$ or more.

 

[davidv]

Listen I use his name to show that how scientific you peoples are, ok?I read the history of scientists were harassed by church.It’s Just like a poster asked me if I went to any school or carried books with me .Both has no relation with the thread. But my intention was clear.I want to say that these peoples are providing the scientific arguments while their science is based on religious teachings. any religion is totally opposite to science. In another thread we will talk about Creation of Adam OK? Not in this thread…

All you have shown is ignorance of Catholic morality.
Where is your scientific evidence of “any religion is totally opposite to science”?