Abortion: How to answer The "right" to avoid pregnancy risks/complications

[danrcarollo]

I don’t really have an effective way to answer this question that gets around the emotional (and apparently medical) force of the claim.

Summarized in this article: (Search internet to get article)
Science Daily - “Women should have right to reject pregnancy, experts say”

Basic argument:

1. Pregnancy has potential health/life risks
2. Laws should not force women to risk death and injury by having a baby.
3. Therefore, we need to keep abortion legal for women who do NOT want to assume those risks…

One of the ways people often support premise #1 is to show data that pregnancy is more dangerous than abortion. In additional premise that people often use is: “Women should be the ones to decide what happens to their body, and that EVEN the unique needs of the embryo/fetus does NOT override the mother’s right to kill it if she is worried about the risks to herself.”

Examples:

“Nobody has the right to use another’s body against their will, even when their (the fetus’) survival depends on it.“

“If I do not feel comfortable taking that risk or just don’t want to give birth for whatever reason you can not force me or anyone else who feels as I do to volunteer their body for gestation. This is really simple.”

---

Any ideas of how to answer this in a way that is not insensitive, or just dryly logical?
I would prefer a woman’s perspective on this if possible.

Thanks!

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

you can not force me or anyone else who feels as I do to volunteer their body

Volunteer?
If you volunteer to have sex, you volunteer for the consequences.
If you engage in any human activity there will be consequences.
Grown ups understand this.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Rape is reported thousands upon thousands of times in the US every year. Untold number go unreported. With one in every 6 women having either been sexually assaulted or had an attempted sexual assault, we all know someone who did not volunteer for sex.

This is where the “you volunteered” reply becomes cruel.

would prefer a woman’s perspective on this if possible.

I’d suggest that you begin with resources here:

https://www.feministsforlife.org/

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

This is where the “you volunteered” reply becomes cruel.

It is cruel if you don’t know where the “volunteered” remark comes from originally.

There is a strong online presence of pro legalized abortion memes referring to scare words like “forced birth” and “my body isn’t a battlefield” and stuff even uglier.
You won’t see it on the MSM, because at this point it’s still confined to the underbelly of the Internet.
It’s used to turn minds towards abortion support.
Disgusting propaganda.
And it’s really serious because not only do babies die, but abortion is highly correlated with anxiety, depression and substance abuse. Which a lot of the girls who gravitate towards this kind of thinking already have.

But you never hear about making good choices on these sites.

And making good choices is the first thing hat needs to happen if we want to turn this around.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Love is what needs to be turned around.

No woman ought ever feel she must have an abortion. We need to have a safe society where pregnancy does not mean losing a partner, being kicked out of parental home, losing a job, fear, panic, etc.

I know what MSN is, I’m not familiar with a “MSM” outlet. Have not used any commercial news outlet for more than a decade, except for researching sources.

After working in the pro life world for 40 years, I think I have heard every single angle on these discussions.

 

[Elias]

Easy:

No one has the right to murder another person.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Pregnancy has potential health/life risks

In non-rape cases pregnancies are self-inflicted an if they want to avoid the risk then they should do so before a fetus is involved.

Laws should not force women to risk death and injury by having a baby.

There is usually an indication of when something is going wrong so unless there is evidence that this pregnancy will cause injury than abortion shouldn’t even be considered.

“Women should be the ones to decide what happens to their body, and that EVEN the unique needs of the embryo/fetus does NOT override the mother’s right to kill it if she is worried about the risks to herself.”

The self-quarantining going on right now shows that others have to be taken into consideration. Some say that it only counts if someone is using your body, but that sounds more like a contrived difference.

 

[1ke]

I suggest Randy Alcorn’s book Pro life answers to pro choice arguments.

 

[JSRG]

danrcarollo:

you can not force me or anyone else who feels as I do to volunteer their body

Volunteer?
If you volunteer to have sex, you volunteer for the consequences.
If you engage in any human activity there will be consequences.
Grown ups understand this.

A problem with this argument is that it doesn’t explain why abortion should be illegal in the case of rape. In fact, the argument you offered is a very strong one that abortion shouldn’t be illegal in the case of rape.

Well, unless that is in fact your position (that all abortion regulation requires a rape exception). I don’t know.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

“Nobody has the right to use another’s body against their will, — even when their (the fetus’) survival depends on it.“

These two statements, that I have separated with a dash, do not relate to each other in any meaningful way. They don’t make any sense together.

 

[catholicray]

My response is to ask why we would assume a victim has sound mind to make such a decision in the first place?

Ultimately the healthcare provider guides the decision and should healthcare providers guide victims who are in a most vulnerable state to abort their children?

Abortions in the case of victims only compound evil rather than undo it.

 

[catholicray]

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/t/concerning-the-sanctification-of-mothers/600097/2

Take a look at this. I think the problem is that we tend to think we can not acknowledge that women should have this right. The response is to frame the answer in the entire order of freedom and justice.

Just because I should have the freedom of my body to pick up a firearm and shoot it does not negate my moral responsibility if I should take advantage of my freedom in a way that harms another.

Yes the consequences of such regulation may result in the death of some mothers. That however is nature. That is the sacrifice of woman as a whole and it is what is truly deserving of supreme respect toward woman.

There is never a situation that can be determined 100% to result in the death of a woman. The fact is we can not know with that level of certainty so we ought not murder children at less than 100% certainty which ties in to the next part.

Finally the voluntary perspective. Woman have the opportunity in voluntary sexual relations to abstain from the act in the first place. Any woman who volunteers for the act should approach it as if a warning label were on their partner that reads: caution may result in death. They offer their consent at that time.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

A problem with this argument is that it doesn’t explain why abortion should be illegal in the case of rape.

The rape argument is the red herring.
It’s used to shut down the conversation.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

A problem with this argument is that it doesn’t explain why abortion should be illegal in the case of rape. In fact, the argument you offered is a very strong one that abortion shouldn’t be illegal in the case of rape.

Well, unless that is in fact your position (that all abortion regulation requires a rape exception). I don’t know.

Rape is just used as a muddle the waters and it would make more sense to agree on regular abortions before moving onto more extraordinary cases.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

In fact, the argument you offered is a very strong one that abortion shouldn’t be illegal in the case of rape.

At the time I wrote that comment, rape hadn’t been mentioned yet.

 

[Catholic_Guy1]

Thou shall not kill.

 

[poche]

In all abortions it means the death of the baby.
“Thou shalt not kill” - God

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Exactly.
And that’s good enough for me.
But some people are very militant and skilled in using words to make it sound unreasonable to respect each other’s right to life.

 

[TheLittleLady]

My response is to ask why we would assume a victim has sound mind to make such a decision in the first place?

Because assault does not cause mental defects, people who have been raped are not automatically of unsound mind.

The rape argument is the red herring.
It’s used to shut down the conversation.

Rape is just used as a muddle the waters and it would make more sense to agree on regular abortions before moving onto more extraordinary cases.

These sort of responses are used to paint the prolife movement into a bunch of heartless people. We are commanded by Christ to love, to charity. Our answers must be charitable.

Those who have been assaulted deserve the very best medical, emotional, financial and material support that we can provide. We need to hail women who have placed children for adoption as heroes, not to make this choice a dirty little secret.

No assaulted person ought be made to feel cornered or blamed or afraid. Our compassion and care can change everything. Women who are wrapped in support for all areas of their life are allowed to be unafraid.

 

[catholicray]

I would respectfully disagree. Therapy is universally recommended for victims which would have no bearing if your position is true. May I ask you politely to unpack your position a little more for my understanding.