Abortion in the case of rape AND the life of the mother

[Milasol]

Well, that’s great! Then why don’t you tell us what he meant by saying the Church had grown “obsessed” with abortion, gay marriage and contraception? Why is he criticizing the church for putting dogma before love, for prioritizing moral doctrines?

Because once properly evangelize People would know that each one of us is created by God on His image.
Here is the other part of the quote you seemed to avoid.
But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church,…

So he is a son of the Church and believes in what the Church says. So do I. And yet you say that our Pope is not one of them. He even states he thinks abortion is not permissible under any circumstances as the Church states.

Also, can you tell me what Pope Francis meant by

“Defense of unborn life is closely linked to the defense of each and every other human right,” Pope Francis wrote in the apostolic exhortation. "It involves the conviction that a human being is always sacred and inviolable, in any situation and at every stage of development.

Can you tell me why did he help us pro-lifers in Argentina so fervently?

Can you tell me why were the doctors and mother of that 9 year old ex-communicated by the Church by Benedict XVI?

Can you tell me what the CCC says about cases like the one you present?

2258 "Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being."56

 

[Hans_W]

Can you tell me why did he help us pro-lifers in Argentina so fervently?

Most Catholics are on the pro-life side, not just Archbishops.

Can you tell me why were the doctors and mother of that 9 year old ex-communicated by the Church by Benedict XVI?

No, I can’t tell you, but it was quite an embarrassment for the Church. That decision was widely criticized by high-ranking clergy, right up into the Vatican.

You might add that the perpetrator, the freak who raped his stepdaughter, was not excommunicated. His sin was apparently not severe enough - a simple confession would have straightened things out between him and the Church.

I am proud to be Catholic, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t use your brain and common sense to point out some incoherence in certain century-old dogmas. I agree with Pope Francis when he criticizes the Church for putting dogma before love and compassion.

 

[Milasol]

Most Catholics are on the pro-life side, not just Archbishops.

Including Pope Francis

No, I can’t tell you, but it was quite an embarrassment for the Church. That decision was widely criticized by high-ranking clergy, right up into the Vatican.

You might add that the perpetrator, the freak who raped his stepdaughter, was not excommunicated. His sin was apparently not severe enough - a simple confession would have straightened things out between him and the Church.

Was he Catholic? It is my understanding he wasn’t.

I am proud to be Catholic, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t use your brain and common sense to point out some incoherence in certain century-old dogmas. I agree with Pope Francis when he criticizes the Church for putting dogma before love and compassion.

Pope Francis said he is a son of the Church and that the Church is clear. Why don’t you like what he says about that?

If you are Catholic then you surely believe that God created us on His own image. Genesis 1:27
Then think that whenever an abortion, the murder of an innocent is committed, we are killing God.
The situation of that girl is horrible but we can’t kill and play God. We do everything in our humanly power to help that girl, but we don’t play God.

 

[Hans_W]

I haven’t read much of this particular thread. There is always so much discussion going around on the topic. And I just personally feel tonight to heed Pope Francis’s advice so I’m taking a break tonight and don’t want to spend much time tonight talking about it. So I’ll only say there are indeed at least 2 innocent lives involved and it appears to me you and Hans come from that vantage point and understand there may not always be a perfect solution to every case. God bless you both.

Thank you Sy Noe. Yes, it’s amazing that with 400,000 members on CAF the opinions on this thread are so skewed towards the militant Church position, as if it was a simple black/white matter.

I also need to take a break and do some real work.

 

[Prodigirl]

What?

Ask the baby if he or she prefers to die with saline solution slowly or with a vacuum.

Excuse me! The comment was about POVERTY, not abortion.

 

[Rau]

Thank you Sy Noe. Yes, it’s amazing that with 400,000 members on CAF the opinions on this thread are so skewed towards the militant Church position, as if it was a simple black/white matter.

I also need to take a break and do some real work.

The morality is black and white!! Sadly, it gives clearer guidance on what can’t be done, than on what can. There is pain no matter what choices one makes in these situations. And that is a compassionate, honest assessment.

 

[minkymurph]

Could I please interject for a moment.

Let me make myself clear. I am pro-life and I find the destruction of a thriving fetus in the womb and saline injections whereby a woman gives birth to a dead child or one that is left to die repulsive. I would also like to add I have spoken to many atheists who agree.

I appreciate abortion is a highly emotive and highly politicized topic. That said, I feel strongly we are all very inadequate when it comes to discussing the issue. I say this because I am a law student and when I have tried to raise this issue and have a rational, reasoned discussion everyone runs for cover and doesn’t even want to talk about it for the reasons I have mentioned. This is what I call the ‘ostrich’ approach and politicians have adopted this approach because discussing the issue of legislating for abortion is termed ‘grasping the nettle,’ so they prefer to ignore it.

The most persuasive argument, irrespective of what the issue is, is one that someone who totally disagrees with your position would find it difficult to refute. The Catholic position on the issue is only relevant to Catholics and this is what concerns me. If arguments pertaining to abortion lie solely within Catholic theology, bearing in mind that not everyone is Catholic, only Catholics will not see it from a Catholic perspective and Catholics struggle with.it. Can we as Catholics,come up an argument (for want of a better term) as mentioned above? I appreciate people feel strongly on this issue as do I, but we can’t address the abortion issue purely in terms of Catholic theology because it would require converting everyone to Catholicism first. If someone is a devout Catholic I would say they would not have an abortion.

I may sound like a real idealist but what I would hope for is for no woman to feel abortion is the only solution. That said, we have to deal with rape, child abuse and women who are told their much wanted baby is severely disabled and casual sex in the equation. These are big issues and I do not profess for one minute I have any magical solution. I think in protecting the unborn which is our motive we need to discuss the issue rationally and reasonably and accept others are not going to accept our position for reasons that are morally wrong but understandable. I am not saying we have no understanding or empathy but I think we need to do better. I just hope people understand what I am saying. Our purpose is to protect the unborn. How do we most effectively do that?

 

[808Catholic]

We have discussed that option before.
So, you want keep that 9-year-old child on life support, as a sort of breading machine. Then cut the twins out, just before her uterus bursts. If she dies - well, didn’t turn out as expected. But we’ve done our duty.

Not a breeding machine; rather a human being who deserves to live as much as her babies. At some point, perhaps the maturity of the babies may be far enough along, one or both could be removed and begin living their own lives. Medical science is tremendous and getting better all the time and premature babies are saved at a younger and younger age. Same for saving adolescents. Keeping the mother alive is just as important as saving her babies. What most “pro-choice” advocates want to do is claim godship for themselves and determine whose life should and shouldn’t be saved. Instead, let’s use our God given skills and try to save both mother and child. God Bless you.

 

[Emily2014]

I’m not a doctor so I can’t weigh in on the veracity of that assessment. Is there a way to put the mother on life support so that her children could have a chance for life?

How could any compassionate human being suggest such a thing for a 9 yr old child!:nope:

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed pending review by moderator Matilda Bennett