Abortion is a Fascist Nihilistic act

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I believe that most women who have abortions are blind to the moral gravity of what they are doing so i am not the kind of person to demonize them for their decisions. However the act of abortion itself is a fascist nihilistic act. We seem to moving into a consumer-nihilistic culture where the goal is sensory enjoyment and where something or some life is sacred only when we say it is, if that happens to be the whim of the majorities fancy. There is something to say in favor of women’s privacy as i do not believe in the idea of policing women’s wombs and thus the legal side of the abortion qeustion is difficult since a women does not cease to have rights just because the child in her womb ought to have rights from a moral stand-point.

However, i have always seen the legal qeustion and the moral question as two different things. While the system may not be able to protect my life from the moment of conception, i do not believe that my mother had the moral right to extinguish my life at the moment of conception. I didn’t have the capacity to express my will to exist at the moment of conception, but being alive now and being conscious of my desire to exist, it is self evident that the possibility of abortion was a threat to my existence. And the idea that my mum might have decided to end me is morally repulsive.

A non-believer may not see a problem with this, but one must admit that deciding the value of somebodies existence and determining their life or death on nothing more than whatever practical value or practical burden they may have, cannot be seen as anything less than a fascist and nihilistic act.
 
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Well by and large, their educated actions force a human being into dependency where on a whim they can be deemed wanted and unwanted and the new human being’s life or death will be determined by that valuation. So yeah, fascist.
 
Which is what you consider to be exactly the same as authoritarian nationalism it would seem.

Look, there are arguments to be made against abortion, but if people throw around descriptors such as facism purely because the term has negative consequences then you really aren’t going to be taken seriously.
 
I am afraid the Pope has just fallen into the same error in comparing abortion to Nazi euthanasia. This is an appalling way to refer to the decisions of thousands of women facing a frightening and unwelcome situation. It does not live up to the humane image I have had of him until now, and shows how religion can distort the thinking of decent people.
 
I have a lot of time for the guy. But his comments were clumsy at best.
 
Is not Facism and Communism and Socialism materialistic? If so,which they are, then this comparison is a good one. Everyone wants the pleasure of the day without self sacrificing and maturely handeling consequences.
 
Were the Jewish people considered unwanted/unwelcome/inconvenient/standing in the way of the prosperity of the German people?
 
clayto1 said:
comparing abortion to Nazi euthanasia
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If women are reducing the existential value of an unborn human life to something that is expendable, that the human life they carry has no unconditional moral right to exist and in some cases not even human, then how is abortion not like Nazi euthanasia?

I think the comparison is rather apt, but i would say it’s far worse because an unborn human life cannot even defend itself and that human life’s existence is entirely dependent upon the mother’s decision to recognize the value.

But like i said in the OP, most women don’t really realize the moral gravity of their situation, and i would not demonize them personally as i don’t think there is malicious intent in every case… I am arguing against the act, not so much the person.
 
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clayto1 said:
I am afraid the Pope has just fallen into the same error in comparing abortion to Nazi euthanasia. This is an appalling way to refer to the decisions of thousands of women facing a frightening and unwelcome situation.
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I think he was looking at it from the side of the victims. I really doubt he’s comparing women to Nazis.

What has always bothered me about these kind of discussions is that no one ever asks about the man nor offers a good alternative to the woman.
 
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I think his point is our valuation of other human beings does not matter. It doesn’t take away from their intrinsic equality as human beings.
 
clayto1 said:
I am afraid the Pope has just fallen into the same error in comparing abortion to Nazi euthanasia. This is an appalling way to refer to the decisions of thousands of women facing a frightening and unwelcome situation. It does not live up to the humane image I have had of him until now, and shows how religion can distort the thinking of decent people.
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The Pope is right. Abortion does involve the deliberate killing of another human being. And yes, abortion has roots in eugenics (look up the history of the abortion movement)

Did you know that for many years now, in Iceland, there have only one or two Down syndrome children born each year, the rest are screened out in the womb and aborted (the one or two born are usually as a result of a faulty screen test). And the UK and Europe are heading that way. How is that not eugenics?

And the Pope isn’t the only one to make that comparison, a similar comparison was made at the Church of England’s General Synod.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Rate of Down's syndrome abortions in UK and Europe is akin to Nazi eugenics, Church of England's General Synod hears

The rate of Down's syndrome abortions in the UK and Europe is akin to Nazi eugenics, the Church of England's General Synod has heard.
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

And as for compassion, the Pope has shown compassion here. How is it compassionate to allow millions upon millions (about 40 million worldwide each year) of little ones to be brutally killed in their mother’s womb each year?

The Pope is absolutely right on that and he is showing compassion towards the most vulnerable and, innocent who are shown little compassion by the abortion industry and pro-choice lobby. Sometimes things have to be said as they are.
 
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PJH_74 said:
What has always bothered me about these kind of discussions is that no one ever asks about the man nor offers a good alternative to the woman.
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That is so true! the spotlight is mostly on the woman in terms of abortion but what of the father? If it is the rapist then I wouldn’t expect much. But if a man and a woman have a child unexpectedly and the wife doesn’t want the child but the father does, then what happens?
 
clayto1 said:
I am afraid the Pope has just fallen into the same error in comparing abortion to Nazi euthanasia. This is an appalling way to refer to the decisions of thousands of women facing a frightening and unwelcome situation. It does not live up to the humane image I have had of him until now, and shows how religion can distort the thinking of decent people.
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The absolute foundational rationale behind abortion is the exact same rationale behind the Nazi atrocities. It is that one human being has a right to determine another can and/or will exist. As to the societal implications or the scale/or scope, there is a difference. I think maybe Francis was making the former point. It is the position of the RCC that life is sacred, belongs to God, and man does not have sovereignty over it.

Edited to say, “the position of the RCC is that human life is sacred …….”
 
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LittleFlower378 said:
Is not Facism and Communism and Socialism materialistic? If so,which they are, then this comparison is a good one. Everyone wants the pleasure of the day without self sacrificing and maturely handeling consequences.
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Ye gods…now you are equating facism, communism and socialism. Did everyone take a day off school when they did politics? Nothwithstanding that communism specifically wanted an end to private ownership. Do you class that as being materialistic?

Capitalism depends on materialism but I never see anyone refer to ‘capitalist abortion’. But it would actually be more accurate than any of the terms you have used.

How about you guys discuss abortion and leave politics for another thread.
 
Question for when a child is conceived through rape:

I wonder why we give the death penalty to the innocent party, and the rapist gets to live, in Canada. We abolished the death penalty yet we still kill the unborn because apparently its not human.

Who dictates what is human? Who has that authority?

Just some thoughts
 
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joeybaggz said:
As to the societal implications or the scale/or scope, there is a difference.
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Yes there is a difference in scale. About as many people have been killed in one year by abortions (40 million) as were killed as a result of Hitler’s actions in WW2 (and that is attributing all the deaths in the European theatre of conflict to being as a result of Hitler’s actions, plus of the course holocaust). 40 million little ones are killed every year by abortion worldwide. The ongoing scale of abortion dwarfs the dreadful slaughter carried out by Hitler.


https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-did-Hitler-kill
 
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Agreed, but whether there is or isn’t a difference in scale, the fundamental basis of both abortion and Nazi atrocity is the same, the idea that one human being can decide that another can or can not exist. Numbers have nothing to do with that.
 
Yes, the principle of one human being deciding that another human being isn’t really a person (or at least not as a person in the fullest sense) and therefore has no right and can be killed if so decided is chilling.
 
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