"Abortion is like getting rid of a tumor"

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The major difference between a tumor and a fetus can be described as disorder versus order. When a tumor develops, random events occur that, by chance, cause the uncontrolled growth of a cell. Conversely, when a fetus develops, there is an exquisite sequence of events that produces an ordered organism. In addition, a tumor arises from the “self” while a fetus arises from the genetic combination of two individuals thereby creating a new individual with a distinct genome.
 
Thank you very much. Your answers were very helpful. 🙂

Pax Domini!
 
It’s not a parasite, because it is a different organism of the same species. Also the mother has a natural vested interest in maintaining the line of the species.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
I’m looking for people who know more about science that me…preferably those who work in this field. A person argued this:

Now, the sentence doesn’t make much sense becuase he contradicts himself. I pointed that out and he answered:

I would refute what he says from the logical standpoint but that will not do much good because he will keep repeating the 8 cells argument. I’m not completelly sure how to serpond to that. I have an idea but I don’t want to be spreading false claims out of ignorance. Could someone please help me refute this?

Cheers,

~Gandalf
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My wife is an RN.
She says that an 8 celled fetus will grow into human being if left be. On the otherhand an 8 celled tumour will grow and eventually kill a human being if left be.
This unfortunate friend has no real basis for an argument, like any pro-choice (pro-death) sympathiser.🤓
 
I think he or she is trying to point out that there are different levels of life that some people choose not to acknowledge. This is not saying that all life isnt sacred, or that abortion isnt a horrible thing, but saying the an egg and a sperm that came into contact 2 seconds ago has the same value as a 6 year old boy… well, that true?

By the churches standards, the egg and sperm or now cell, is alive. It is a baby.

But if a person tries to tell me that they honestly look at the gob of egg and sperm, and put it on the same value as the 6 year old boy… well I hope they are confused.

Imagine such a horrible thing as being forced to choose to save either the single celled baby, or the 6 year old boy. How many of you can actually say that you simply cant decide because both lives are equally precious? I know I’d be inclined to push for the survival of the 6 year old boy.
 
Atemi said:
Three points I saw:

1. He says there is little difference between a fetus and a tumor, and he says this is a scientific standpoint.

For one, a tumor, by definition, is an abnormal growth.

For the scientific community to speak of objective normalcy…and thus what a tumor is not…is to place this comparison way beyond a “little difference.”

8 cells of a human being are not equivelent to 8 cells in a tumor, yet that is what this person so desperately wants to believe.

A cell is not a cell is not a cell is not a cell.

**2. **This person admits that life begins at conception.

What kind of life?

Cancer? An ameoba? A plant? A pig?

Ask this person what scientific species this life is.

Also, this person is equating all forms of life. That is nonsense.

A life is not a life is not a life is not a life.

He already knows this, as he probably has no problem spraying a roach, but would not be so keen on someone else so haphazardly taking his life.

3. Again, he admits that life begins at conception and compares this to a tumor.

Ask him if the single celled fetus is just as similar to a single celled tumor.

Is the tumor alive?

He will probably say yes.

Ask how it is alive.

He will probably say it is made up of a living cell/s.

Fine.

This is the catch, though:

Since he admits that life begins at conception, ask him if he then believes that sperm cells and ovum are not alive.

He will thus have to backtrack and reevaluate why he agreed that life begins at conception.

He knows what life. Human life. He admitted it.

…
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An unborn baby is not ‘abnormal’ or we’d be truly shocked - maybe he thinks the stork is involved! Saying “Gee, where’d that come from?”
 
Urf said:
Imagine such a horrible thing as being forced to choose to save either the single celled baby, or the 6 year old boy. How many of you can actually say that you simply cant decide because both lives are equally precious? I know I’d be inclined to push for the survival of the 6 year old boy.
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It would be equally terrible to have to decide between saving one of two six-year-old boys, or one six-year-old and a human zygote(the one-cell baby). I would find it equally difficult to choose in both situations, granting that I knew that this one cell WAS for SURE a human. It would be a bizzare situation, first, to be sure that that cell was a tiny human, second, to be able to locate such a tiny cell, and third, how on earth would you pick it up? And, in all likely hood, such a cell would be inside its mother, so then it would be a choice between a kid and a woman, who probably doesn’t know she is pregnant… 0.o You’re still choosing between a life and a life. You’d make the kind of choices you’d have to make in that kind of horrible, horrible situation; ie who do I have the most chance to get them out safely, etc… Perhaps you would choose the zygote, because it is so totally, completely helpless, whereas at least the boy can run on his own two feet. I pray that I never have to make such a choice. :eek:
 
I fail to see how I contradict myself when I say that an 8 cell tumour is almost identical to an 8 cell foetus. The sole difference is in that a foetus doesn’t metastasize, other than that, it is the same - a small group of cells that grows faster than normal groups of cells.
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Interesting. An 8 cell embryo is just a blob of cells. So at my work, if I saw a teeny tiny breast tumor in a biopsy, even if just 8 cells, could I say, ‘well it’s just a small lump of tissue, and the patient sure doesn’t look sick right now to me, so how could this really be cancer? Let’s not treat it’.

If I did this, sometime later this patient could die. Why? Because it is cancer, whether it has achieved it’s full metastatic expression or not. And an 8 cell embryo, or a fertilized ovum, for that matter, is a human being whether it has grown to it’s full potential or not. You see, small “lumps of tissue” DO have qualitative identity, although it may take time for the significance be apparent. If we use this reasoning for the diagnosis and treatment of small tumors, than we must use the same reasoning for the recognition of small humans.

-Tim
 
If I did this, sometime later this patient could die.
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And, I should add, I could get sued, with the full weight of the court system on me, for failing to interpret this tiny blob of cells for what it was, and what it would become.

Ironic, isn’t it?

-Tim
 
I have never know a tumor who could grow to a beautiful brown eyed child that says “I love you.”👍

:heart:Blyss
 
…and of course the folks who abort because the ultrasound scan or the aminocentesis shows an abnormaility are making a huge leap of faith in the assumption that the reports have been **correctly read **in the first place. The folk who do this are human beings and errors can and do happen.

Pity the poor baby who is aborted and is perfectly formed…would you risk it…
 
There doesn’t seem much point to the OP’s friends argument in the real world because at the 8-cell stage, the woman doesn’t even know she’s pregnant!

By the time she recognizes she’s pregnant, the main systems of the body have all been formed (though not fully developed) and the physical form is distinctly different from any tumor known to man.

The greatest distinction however, in my mind, is the DNA make-up of the baby. A tumor develops from abnormal cells of one individual. A baby develops from the cells of two individuals and has DNA that is distinct from it’s mother’s.
 
Melanie01 said:
…and of course the folks who abort because the ultrasound scan or the aminocentesis shows an abnormaility are making a huge leap of faith in the assumption that the reports have been **correctly read **in the first place. The folk who do this are human beings and errors can and do happen.

Pity the poor baby who is aborted and is perfectly formed…would you risk it…
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This almost happened to my dad!!! They said his mom had an ovarian cyst; turned out, she was pregnant with my dad. Thank goodness one doctor realized this, so they didn’t operate, and I’m here to be telling this story. ^^
 
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