Abortion should have nothing to do with criminal law

  • Thread starter Thread starter pennsylvan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
pennsylvan said:
Your opinion that poverty is not the result of intentional acts is dubious. Even if you engage in some sort of double effect juggling.

And no, I am not claiming that abortion alleviates poverty (lthough there are studies that suggest that).

What I am claiming is that criminal laws are not the means to prevent abortion.
Click to expand...
Then why are you bringing up poverty? Abortion is an act of the will against another human. Poverty is not. Killing a human is a crime. Being poor is not. So, either you are trying to make pretense that poverty can be alleviated with abortion, or you are arguing a strawman (at best).

At any rate, at least you recognize that these 2 are not similar. I’m willing to look past the poverty argument without accusing you further of fallacious reasoning.

Do you believe that unborn babies don’t need the same protection as the mothers who carry them? If we exempt the unborn, who are most vulnerable, from legal protection, then why bother protecting the mothers, who are not as vulnerable, who carry them?
 
ahs said:
Sure, I believe the earliest stage of life, the embryo, in its defenseless state, needs protection of the law because of their vulnerability to harmful acts against them. Protection of the law is a means by which we can protect the most vulnerable in our society. We should work to establish and maintain a society were ALL life is valued and welcomed, otherwise, we risk a morally corrosive degradation of respect for human life.

Do you believe that unborn babies don’t need the same protection as the mothers who carry them? If we exempt the unborn, who are most vulnerable, from legal protection, then why bother protecting the mothers, who are not as vulnerable, who carry them?
Click to expand...
You assume the primary function of a law is protection. It isn’t. A law defines rights and obligations and imposes sanctions for violations.

Do you think the Church can effectively makes its case against abortion without reliance on state power?
 
pennsylvan said:
Okay. What sentence do you recommend?
Click to expand...
Depends. If the Woman is doing it for a convience, I would give jail time to the Doctor and the Women

If its a Scared and pressured Woman, Rehabilitatve measures (not prison), and double jail time for the doctors because they exploited her fear and killed her child. For the doctor who exploited the scared girl and offered no alternatives but willingly did abortion, double lifetime, parole after 80 years.

A doctor that performs abortions would get, if I was judge, lifetime in jail with no parole.

If a boyfriend pressures the girl into it for the sake of His convience, I would give the boyfriend lifetime in prison, with parole after 30 years. For the girlfriend, Rehabilitative measures.

Planned Parenthood CEO- lifetime in prison, no parole

Abortion funding politicians, including Obama- lifetime in prison, parole after 40 years.

That would take the fight out of the pro abortion crowd
 
polki said:
That is why the Pro-abortion crowd doesn’t want a Personhood Ammendment.
Click to expand...
That’s one very big reason.

My queston is whether the county is up to seeing through everything that legal personhood requires.
 
pennsylvan said:
You assume the primary function of a law is protection. It isn’t. A law defines rights and obligations and imposes sanctions for violations.
Click to expand...
How exactly is abortion NOT a violation of the most important right: the right to life?
 
pennsylvan said:
You assume the primary function of a law is protection. It isn’t. A law defines rights and obligations and imposes sanctions for violations.
Click to expand...
I don’t assume anything. I don’t think it matters what the “primary function of a law” is. Law can protect the vulnerable in society…and if it can’t then why have any law at all? I simply believe that the earliest stage of life, the embryo, in its defenseless state, needs protection of the law because of their vulnerability to harmful acts against them. Protection of the law is a means by which we can protect the most vulnerable in our society. We should work to establish and maintain a society were ALL life is valued and welcomed, otherwise, we risk a morally corrosive degradation of respect for human life.

Do you believe that unborn babies don’t need the same protection as the mothers who carry them? If we exempt the unborn, who are most vulnerable, from legal protection, then why bother protecting the mothers, who are not as vulnerable, who carry them?
Do you think the Church can effectively makes its case against abortion without reliance on state power?
Click to expand...
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything I’ve mentioned so far. Why do you ask this?
 
mymamamary said:
Depends. If the Woman is doing it for a convience, I would give jail time to the Doctor and the Women

If its a Scared and pressured Woman, Rehabilitatve measures (not prison), and double jail time for the doctors because they exploited her fear and killed her child. For the doctor who exploited the scared girl and offered no alternatives but willingly did abortion, double lifetime, parole after 80 years.

A doctor that performs abortions would get, if I was judge, lifetime in jail with no parole.

If a boyfriend pressures the girl into it for the sake of His convience, I would give the boyfriend lifetime in prison, with parole after 30 years. For the girlfriend, Rehabilitative measures.

Planned Parenthood CEO- lifetime in prison, no parole

Abortion funding politicians, including Obama- lifetime in prison, parole after 40 years.

That would take the fight out of the pro abortion crowd
Click to expand...
And I’m sure you’ll be muttering litanies throughout the deliberation.
 
laircy said:
How exactly is abortion NOT a violation of the most important right: the right to life?
Click to expand...
Civilly, there is no right to life until birth.

Theologically, God does not require a state to do His will.
 
davidv said:
Does this mean that most who are slave to sin are cowards?
Click to expand...
No, it means the most rabid rightwing right-to-lifers will blanch at the cost and the scope of government involvement to carry it out.

Of course, if money is no object, I’ll take it back.
 
pennsylvan said:
Civilly, there is no right to life until birth.

Theologically, God does not require a state to do His will.
Click to expand...
Yet if they found a blob of cells on Mars, they would consider that life. How ironic. Theologically, The States requirement is that it lines itself with the Morality of GOD.
 
pennsylvan said:
No, it means the most rabid rightwing right-to-lifers will blanch at the cost and the scope of government involvement to carry it out.

Of course, if money is no object, I’ll take it back.
Click to expand...
When it involves Human life, money is no object.
 
ahs said:
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything I’ve mentioned so far. Why do you ask this?
Click to expand...
,
I mention ths because by invoking law you are invoking state power. Law without state power is meaningless.

I’ll also say this: relying on law, i.e., the state, to enforce morality is a very dangerous game.
 
pennsylvan said:
,
I mention ths because by invoking law you are invoking state power. Law without state power is meaningless.

I’ll also say this: relying on law, i.e., the state, to enforce morality is a very dangerous game.
Click to expand...
Well, whose duty is it to enforce morality? Of course, morality doesn’t stem from the State, yet the States responsiblity is to enforce it.
 
pennsylvan said:
You assume the primary function of a law is protection. It isn’t. A law defines rights and obligations and imposes sanctions for violations.

Do you think the Church can effectively makes its case against abortion without reliance on state power?
Click to expand...
Do you think that state power is illegitimate? I’m sensing a semi-libertarian vibe from your posts.
 
pennsylvan said:
It strikes me as a very unchristian post, full of damnanation. If I offendedy you, which I probably did, I apologize.
Click to expand...
I thank You for the courtsey. However abortion is a satanic issue. Its not damning, its justice.
 
mymamamary said:
Well, whose duty is it to enforce morality? Of course, morality doesn’t stem from the State, yet the States responsiblity is to enforce it.
Click to expand...
There’s the heart of it.

No, states do not enforce morality, states enforce laws, which may or not be moral.

I believe Jesus Christ established the Church to point the way, not simply to morality,but to Him. He did not come to enforce but to invite.

As in everything, we have the choice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top