Abortion: startling[?] statistic

[SpiritMeadow]

My point had nothing to do with Catholics and everything to do with the fact that a little over half the women were using a contraception during the month they became pregnant. Think about it. If 54% of them were using a contraceptive at that time than just how effective can contraceptives truly be? Are they truly as effective as they try to lead us to believe?

I’ll admit yes there was a three year period were I used the pill but I was not raised with a Catholic understanding of things. It appears that a great many of Catholics in America were raised the same way.

It is still meaningless. You have not claimed that there was not a determined choice to discontinue birth control and seek pregnancy foremost. And all contraceptives are to one degree or another subject to error. I see no point in your claim that contraceptives may not be as effective as what? you would like, others believe? still what is the point? We understand quite well the Catholic position. Some of us are unclear why “rhythm is somehow exempt” though. That is the most likely to fail of course than any of the others.

 

[YADA]

And btw as well, pollsters do not identify anyone as what kind of Catholic one is, I don’t think they take cognizance of what people here call “real” catholics only. It is self-identifying.

Actually common polster questions include the following in addition to identification of religious affliation…

How often do you attend church? More than once a week, weekly, monthly, once a year or special occasion …

OR

How often have you attended religious services in the past month? 5 or more times, 4 times, 1 or 2 times, did not attend.

 

[hasikelee]

It is still meaningless. You have not claimed that there was not a determined choice to discontinue birth control and seek pregnancy foremost.

If a user decided to discontinue a hormonal replacement therapy in an attempt to achieve conception, the user would not report to a survey that the birth control failed.

 

[Calliso]

My point had nothing to do with Catholics and everything to do with the fact that a little over half the women were using a contraception during the month they became pregnant. Think about it. If 54% of them were using a contraceptive at that time than just how effective can contraceptives truly be? Are they truly as effective as they try to lead us to believe?

I’ll admit yes there was a three year period were I used the pill but I was not raised with a Catholic understanding of things. It appears that a great many of Catholics in America were raised the same way.

Yes and of those using the pill or a condom most of them were not even using them properly! It;s like nfp if you donlt use it properly of course it is not going to be effective! It does not mean though that it is not effective when used properly.

 

[Mimi]

Post # 12:

It is still meaningless. You have not claimed that there was not a determined choice to discontinue birth control and seek pregnancy foremost. And all contraceptives are to one degree or another subject to error. I see no point in your claim that contraceptives may not be as effective as what? you would like, others believe? still what is the point? We understand quite well the Catholic position. Some of us are unclear why “rhythm is somehow exempt” though. That is the most likely to fail of course than any of the others.

The old (so-called) “rhythm method” has been refined and is now referred to as NFP (natural family planning). I tried to use it, but it is imperative for the husband to understand and get with the program for it to be effective. Women are infertile for most of their cycle. NFP takes advantage of this natural infertility. Even without a test to detect the onset of the fertile time, most women can tell when they are approaching it by physical signs.

Success takes a real committment and willingness to sacrifice some spontaneity. This is what true love is all about; sacrifice. This is the basis of the Theology of the Body. THis sacrifice helps unite us to Christ. When we sacrifice, we are living as CHRISTians.

Any man who truly cares about his beloved would not want her to be chemically altered, esp. if he is aware of the physical side effects and long-term risks of using it. And if one believes all life is sacred, then being aware of the abortifacient nature of some contraceptives would make using them a grave sin and unthinkable to a person who wants to be a better Catholic. Sadly, ome are ignorant of these facts. Even more sadly, some are aware, but choose to do it anyway.

So, NFP, being mutually agreeable and of a sacrificial nature is therefore compatible with Catholic teaching. Also, the couple are to pray seriously about whether there are good reasons why they should avoid pregnancy FOR A TIME – with the intention that they WILL indeed have children at some point. They may want to wait until a spouse finishes a degree in order to have better economic stability for the provision of the family. They are not to have the intention of having a childless marriage.

That being said:
I am not a teacher of NFP, but this is my understanding of it gathered from informal reading.

If anyone else is more informed, please correct or provide more detail on my commentary.

Thank you and God bless – Happy Easter!
Mimi

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Post # 12:

The old (so-called) “rhythm method” has been refined and is now referred to as NFP (natural family planning). I tried to use it, but it is imperative for the husband to understand and get with the program for it to be effective. Women are infertile for most of their cycle. NFP takes advantage of this natural infertility. Even without a test to detect the onset of the fertile time, most women can tell when they are approaching it by physical signs.

Success takes a real committment and willingness to sacrifice some spontaneity. This is what true love is all about; sacrifice. This is the basis of the Theology of the Body. THis sacrifice helps unite us to Christ. When we sacrifice, we are living as CHRISTians.

Any man who truly cares about his beloved would not want her to be chemically altered, esp. if he is aware of the physical side effects and long-term risks of using it. And if one believes all life is sacred, then being aware of the abortifacient nature of some contraceptives would make using them a grave sin and unthinkable to a person who wants to be a better Catholic. Sadly, ome are ignorant of these facts. Even more sadly, some are aware, but choose to do it anyway.

So, NFP, being mutually agreeable and of a sacrificial nature is therefore compatible with Catholic teaching. Also, the couple are to pray seriously about whether there are good reasons why they should avoid pregnancy FOR A TIME – with the intention that they WILL indeed have children at some point. They may want to wait until a spouse finishes a degree in order to have better economic stability for the provision of the family. They are not to have the intention of having a childless marriage.

That being said:
I am not a teacher of NFP, but this is my understanding of it gathered from informal reading.

If anyone else is more informed, please correct or provide more detail on my commentary.

Thank you and God bless – Happy Easter!
Mimi

I have no dispute with anything you say, but I still consider it, under its new name to be nothing more than a feeble bone thrown at the the laity who desperately needs some way to avoid pregnancy without giving up sex totally. It’s just birth control from a more dicey place to me. And it is hypocritical to make charges against the contracepting world as long as the church allows it. I can see no rational argument that this is in any way differerent than modern methods of contraception.

 

[vz71]

I have no dispute with anything you say, but I still consider it, under its new name to be nothing more than a feeble bone thrown at the the laity who desperately needs some way to avoid pregnancy without giving up sex totally. It’s just birth control from a more dicey place to me. And it is hypocritical to make charges against the contracepting world as long as the church allows it.

This shows a remarkable misunderstanding of the teachings concerning contraception.

I can see no rational argument that this is in any way differerent than modern methods of contraception.

And this shows a complete lack of understanding for NFP.

Perhaps a better understanding of the facts should be gained before accusing God’s church of hypocrisy.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

This shows a remarkable misunderstanding of the teachings concerning contraception.

And this shows a complete lack of understanding for NFP.

Perhaps a better understanding of the facts should be gained before accusing God’s church of hypocrisy.

LOL. calm down. I have read several threads on this issue here, so be careful about condeming others here for giving me incorrect information. It remains what it remains. A means of birth control. You may call it what you like, it is birth control. As such it cannot be defended. As I stated 85% of all Catholics practice birth control. Of the 15 % who don’t I assume it is somehow split between those who no longer need it through menopause and a fraction who use the NFP or rhythm method instead. I really would lke to see what % who just go forward comewhat may and use no method to avoid pregnancy. Now that might be interesting.

 

[st_lucy]

LOL. calm down. I have read several threads on this issue here, so be careful about condeming others here for giving me incorrect information. It remains what it remains. A means of birth control. You may call it what you like, it is birth control. As such it cannot be defended. As I stated 85% of all Catholics practice birth control. Of the 15 % who don’t I assume it is somehow split between those who no longer need it through menopause and a fraction who use the NFP or rhythm method instead. I really would lke to see what % who just go forward comewhat may and use no method to avoid pregnancy. Now that might be interesting.

Well I am one who doesn’t use anything. I know that I should use NFP to make sure all is well with my body, but I just cannot seem to be too faithful to it. I also have quite a bit of friends who are the same as I am. Although they are alot more lucky than I since they do have the larger families. Two of my closer friends are now pregnant and they didn’t use NFP, but they always joke about how they don’t have to. As for me I just go through the whole monthly disappointment thing. (not fun)

 

[jmcrae]

We have used NFP in the past, quite effectively - right now, we’re on the “winging it” method - if a child comes, we will welcome her, and if not, we will continue on as usual.

 

[vz71]

You may call it what you like, it is birth control. As such it cannot be defended.

As I said, a better understanding of the facts should be obtained before claiming God’s church guilty of hypocrisy.

The Catechism is quite clear as to what is and is not acceptable.
And it is clear as to WHY.

The statement that “As such it cannot be defended.” shows that the facts have not been obtained.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

As I said, a better understanding of the facts should be obtained before claiming God’s church guilty of hypocrisy.

The Catechism is quite clear as to what is and is not acceptable.
And it is clear as to WHY.

The statement that “As such it cannot be defended.” shows that the facts have not been obtained.

No not quite. It means I do not believe that what is touted here as dogma is correct. I do not believe that if I disagree with the church on the issue of NFP, that somehow my consciousness is imperfectly formed. I am required by the Church to in the end decide for myself. I have, with all due respect for its claims and proofs. I do not find them convincing. I am not a robot simply asking what is the rule, that I may follow it.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Well I am one who doesn’t use anything. I know that I should use NFP to make sure all is well with my body, but I just cannot seem to be too faithful to it. I also have quite a bit of friends who are the same as I am. Although they are alot more lucky than I since they do have the larger families. Two of my closer friends are now pregnant and they didn’t use NFP, but they always joke about how they don’t have to. As for me I just go through the whole monthly disappointment thing. (not fun)

YOu have every right to do as you wish in the matter. I certainly am not judging you in any way and have no need to. My concerns are for women I have read hear who have been told that unprotected sex is a serious health risk for them. they continue to use the NFP and hope for the best. I find that simply frightening, much like Jehovah’s witnesses and their refusal to use blood transfusions. In one case here, the man said they had decided on celibacy rather than risk it, but they would not use contraception. Again, I find it sickningly sad.

 

[vz71]

No not quite. It means I do not believe that what is touted here as dogma is correct. I do not believe that if I disagree with the church on the issue of NFP, that somehow my consciousness is imperfectly formed.

I have heard these arguments before…
All follow in Luther’s grand tradition…the old “I don’t have to follow church doctine.”
These arguments are old and tired.

Assuming you believe you are Catholic, you are required to accept the whole of the CCC.

If you have problems with it, that is your problem…not the church’s.

 

[vz71]

…they would not use contraception. Again, I find it sickningly sad.

Unless I misread this horribly, this past statement is what is truly sickening and sad.

 

[PetersKeys]

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Under the “Who has abortions?” heading:
“Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic”

I assume the other 30% are not religiously affiliated …

So, 27% of women who had an abortion in 2000-2001 [the year the study was conducted] consider themselves Catholic? Yikes!

Anyone else as amazed as I am?

I think this is considered for people who have been baptized as Catholics or grew up in a Catholic family. They go under the “Catholic” section.

As far as their real spiritual concernes I have a feeling that percentage would be alot lower. You have alot of heretics who call themselves Catholic these days, like “Catholics” for a free choice and condoms4life.org. These people really aren’t “Catholics” since they don’t adhere to church teaching and thus deam a latie sentantie excommunication by automation.