Abortion Taken Lightly

[Ana]

Lillith:

I just have to say Mrs. Abbott…Morn the baby…pray for the friend.

I don’t see how you could remain too friendly with this particular person however…not because she had an abortion…but because the two of you obviously have nothing in common! Your values are polar opposites!

Friends are supposed to be people who you enjoy being around. They don’t stress you out or anger you…hopefully they help you to grow. If you are a “friend” with anyone who makes you feel bad when you are around them…it is a sign to move on.

I wholeheartedly agree!

Mrs Abbott,

I completely respect and understand your decision to end the friendship. I actually have a thread going on about ending a friendship, though for different reasons.)

But please do not lose this opportunity for spiritual growth. God does not want abortion to happen, but he also doesn’t want us to hate the “person,” only the “sin.” This is difficult to do … especially when that sin taps into “old wounds.” But this is exactly where God’s Sovereignty is made apparent. When our wounds (whether self inflicted or by others, but ALWAYS through sin), are healed, and this is always done through the cross, which bring to light the imperfections in “ourselves” that need healing. Do not think that by removing yourself from your friend, you have removed yourself from the necessity of inviting the Holy Spirit into your hurt and anger and asking … “What are You teaching me?” “Where do you want to love (heal) me?”

May God pour His merciful love upon you, that you may be a vessel for this same love to others.

God bless you and all who are hurt by the sins of abortion.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Lillith:

I just have to say Mrs. Abbott…Morn the baby…pray for the friend.

I don’t see how you could remain too friendly with this particular person however…not because she had an abortion…but because the two of you obviously have nothing in common! Your values are polar opposites!

Friends are supposed to be people who you enjoy being around. They don’t stress you out or anger you…hopefully they help you to grow. If you are a “friend” with anyone who makes you feel bad when you are around them…it is a sign to move on.

The friendship was stronger a few years ago. The abortion thing was the final indication that it’s definitely over.

 

[Ana]

mrs_abbott:

There’s no healing…

That is such a sad sentence and so untrue.:nope:

mrs_abbott:

Killing is killing, no matter how you look at it.

Only if you stop there. Our faith doesn’t … it travels through death … to the Ressurrection. There is always God to take what was intended to destroy and transform it into an instrument of healing and beauty.

It is ONLY in the light of the Resurrection that we can look at Christ on the cross and be stunned by HIS beauty. If we look at it without that perspective, it is grotesque and ugly.

BTW, I think we crossed posts a few minutes before. I hope you had the opportunity to read my post before your last one.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Ana:

It is ONLY in the light of the Resurrection that we can look at Christ on the cross and be stunned by HIS beauty. If we look at it without that perspective, it is grotesque and ugly.

God is the ultimate judge and He doesn’t need me to step in and do it for Him.
Since it’s like a reflex for me to judge, I back out of the picture and leave it to God. It’s all I know how to do right now.

 

[tamccrackine]

mrs_abbott:

You’re right, I don’t know her heart. I do know, however, she’s extremely selfish and self-centered though because that’s obvious in her everyday life. As long as she continues to think of herself and herself only, I have nothing but criticism for her. It’d been different if she had the abortion out of fear. I’d be able to forgive her then.

Right again, I’ve never been through an abortion. I’ve had what people like to call “an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy” and I wasn’t dating the baby’s father anymore and he wanted nothing to do with the baby. During the whole pregnancy, even due to lack of support from family, I still had the baby and almost gave him up for adoption until I met my current husband. Never once did I consider abortion. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, of an innocent baby who did NOTHING wrong. I have nothing but hatred for those who kill and think it’s alright. That’s my stance.

I think the friendship is over. The more I think about and more I talk about it here, it can never be the same. It probably never was a strong friendship in the first place. I can never look at her the same way again.

God have mercy on me!

I’m not a baby-killer. I have my own short-comings to work on, like harshly judging people. I need to learn to leave it in God’s hands.

“I hurt when I read your criticism of me. You don’t know my heart.” Who are you to judge me?

I am so very sorry you are so hateful. I’m so very sorry you hate women that have made a choice that you don’t understand. It’s the pro-life people like you that I don’t understand because your HATRED of abortion runs deep. Yes, I don’t agree with abortion, but I don’t HATE post-abortive women with such diabolical disgust and hate like what you’ve written.

I’m thankful that you can recognize and admit that you harshly judge people… thus, once again, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you attend a Rachels’ Vineyard retreat or a Project Rachels’ retreat. Work at a Crisis Pregnancy Center or even just volunteer to work behind the scenes at an above mentioned retreat. Then just maybe, you’ll get a clearer understanding of the self hatred most post abortive women have for themselves. You might also gain some HONEST insight into why they had an abortion. And maybe, you’ll come to forgive them (although we don’t need YOUR forgiveness) and love them for who they are. I actually feel sorry for your friend, not you. She will have a hard time for many years to come before she’s capable of emotionally and mentally handling the (name removed by moderator)ut of what she’s done and finally come to grips. For her sake… leave her. She doesn’t need a friend like you.

And don’t patronize yourself just because YOU didn’t choose abortion. You don’t know a single reason as to why a post abortive woman made the choice she did and, obviously by your hatred, you wouldn’t understand. (Note that I didn’t say ACCEPT, I said UNDERSTAND-- big difference) You aren’t perfect either (got pregnant outside of marriage) so don’t judge a person because they made a choice you wouldn’t make. That’s called condescension and ya know… I know many more woman that have had an abortion that grieve over what they’ve done and that have more humility in their little finger than what you’ve just shown towards a post-abortive woman.

I’m sorry you will destroy the friendship… I don’t claim to know your friend, but speaking from a post-abortive view… I wouldn’t want you as a friend.

Peace to you and I forgive you for your harsh judgment. Someday you may understand and learn to HELP post abortive women instead of critisizing them for something you know nothing of.

 

[anna1978]

I don’t really know if I should say this: but yes, we are not called to judge, God does…but that also means that if we are not supposed to ‘judge’, we have to be a little careful with our language. I must admit, I’m a little shocked at the ‘absolute’ condemnation of this woman, when we don’t know what is in her heart, nor how she may mature in 10 or even 20 years time…Sure you don’t need to be her friend (you seem to have precious little in common), but I can’t help thinking that as a follower of Christ, we’re not giving out the ‘right vibes’ by condemning and hating people…

Anna x

 

[mrs_abbott]

tamccrackine:

Yes, I don’t agree with abortion, but I don’t HATE post-abortive women with such diabolical disgust and hate like what you’ve written.

I don’t hate them, I can just never think highly of them. Maybe it seems like the same thing. I apologize for seeming heartless but this is not something I can let go, even though it’s not about me.

You might also gain some HONEST insight into why they had an abortion. And maybe, you’ll come to forgive them (although we don’t need YOUR forgiveness) and love them for who they are. I actually feel sorry for your friend, not you. She will have a hard time for many years to come before she’s capable of emotionally and mentally handling the (name removed by moderator)ut of what she’s done and finally come to grips. For her sake… leave her. She doesn’t need a friend like you.

I know reasons why women have abortions and they are all different. Some seem more legitimate than others. Like you said, you guys don’t need MY forgiveness to move on with your lives. She’ll never get my forgiveness and as I stated before, the more I talk about it, the more I just can’t be her friend. You can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that I’m not going to be around her. I would never cut her down verbally because she doesn’t need me hurting her while she finally comes back down to reality and realizes the magnitude of what she did. I can’t imagine what a “mind-blower” that is on a woman. I just hope she makes it through life alright. I’ll refer her to this website if she needs someone who can understand because I can’t and never will, as sad as that may seem.

And don’t patronize yourself just because YOU didn’t choose abortion. You don’t know a single reason as to why a post abortive woman made the choice she did and, obviously by your hatred, you wouldn’t understand. (Note that I didn’t say ACCEPT, I said UNDERSTAND-- big difference) You aren’t perfect either (got pregnant outside of marriage) so don’t judge a person because they made a choice you wouldn’t make.

Wasn’t patronizing anyone, simply stating. You’re right, I don’t know why a woman would do that. If someone is truly sorry for what they did, like with any sin, they will be forgiven as though it had never happened. She doesn’t need to confess anything to me, I’m not her spiritual advisor. If she would show some ounce of remorse, even just a shred at this point, I wouldn’t be so quick to judge and hate. But alas, she feels pretty good about what she did so I have nothing to do with a proud-to-be baby killer.

I’m sorry you will destroy the friendship… I don’t claim to know your friend, but speaking from a post-abortive view… I wouldn’t want you as a friend.

To each his own.

Peace to you and I forgive you for your harsh judgment. Someday you may understand and learn to HELP post abortive women instead of critisizing them for something you know nothing of.

Doubtful but who knows? The only things that are certain in this life are that you pay taxes and die. I won’t rule it out then until I’m dead and gone, which will be sooner rather than later, I’m sure.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Abortion (taken from stobie.home.sprynet.com/religion/100prolife.htm)

Is abortion ever right? No.
What about in cases where the woman is raped? Abortion is still wrong. The child is innocent of the act and deserves life. In addition, the abortion further tramatizes the woman and makes the situation worse. If the woman finds the presence of her child tramatizes her about the rape, placing the child up for adoption is an option.
What about in cases where the woman will die if the pregnancy is not ended? Abortion is not the answer. Rather deliver the child and provide the best prenatal care available. Delivering the child is healthier for the mother than any abortion would be.
Why does abortion get most of the pro-life attention? Abortion is the deliberate murder of innocent human beings for selfish purposes. It is worse than what was done in Nazi Germany to the Jews (and others). Any moral person should be outraged that these attrocities are performed anywhere in the world.
Does abortion harm the mother? Absolutely. The psychological damage to the mother is significant and often there is physical damage left from an abortion as well.
Should abortion be treated like any other murder of a human being? Yes; those who perform or hire murder should be prosecuted for premeditated murder (first degree murder). Those who assist in the abortion, should be prosecuted for participating and enabling in a premeditated murder (second degree murder).
Abuse
Is abusive behavior ever appropriate? No, abuse, whether physical, mental, psychological, sexual, bureaucratic, financial, legal, etc., is always wrong.

 

[Island_Oak]

mrs_abbott:

Abortion (taken from stobie.home.sprynet.com/religion/100prolife.htm)

…What about in cases where the woman will die if the pregnancy is not ended? Abortion is not the answer. Rather deliver the child and provide the best prenatal care available. Delivering the child is healthier for the mother than any abortion would be…

A dead woman is never healthier than a living one. Even the Catholic Church doesn’t adhere to a standard which requires a pregnant woman to give up her own life to maintain a pregnancy or risk condemnation. In cases where a woman’s own life in in danger (i.e. ectopic/tubal pregnancy) the Church allows for medical intervention necessary to treat the life-threatening condition and save the mother’s life. If, as a result, the pregnancy is terminated, directly or indirectly, it is not considered an abortion.

I would have to add, after following this thread and observing the palpable vehemence of your emotions, perhaps there is more to this story and you would benefit from counseling on this topic. It is one thing to despise the philosophy/mindset that supports and even promotes abortion rights and to be committed to work for change. It is quite another to direct hatred towards specific individuals who have made mistakes in judgment and action simply because their mistake is not the same kind of mistake you would ever make. Some of your posts in this regard border on the irrational given that we all sin and in so doing offend each other and God.

It is a sad fact that 10s of millions of abortions have occured in the 30+ years since Roe. Given that, it is unreasonable for you to expect that you can isolate yourself from adult women who have succumbed to this procedure. It seems unhealthy–spiritually and emotionally–for you to go through life seething with hatred, resentment, condescension and disdain.

 

[Princess_Abby]

I’m just wondering how you justify ending any potential spiritual good you could do by by remaining her friend?

My neice was almost aborted. My brother and a woman he was dating became pregnant almost three years ago. The woman reacted in fear and shame by scheduling an abortion, much to my brother’s horror. Very intense fights ensued and she made it all the way to the clinic before finally giving into my brother and agreeing not to go through with it. He physically had to drive her away from the clinic.

Privately, he confided his disgust with her and how could he have anything to do with someone who wanted to murder his own child. It made him truly examine his own actions and responsibility for becoming involved with someone inappropriately before marriage but especially someone who did not fully share his values. This girl is a protestant pastor’s daughter–not someone uneducated in the manner of Christianity but at first unwilling to live her faith due to the fear and anxiety.

Instead of abandoning her emotionally and spiritually, my brother worked on the root issues that led to their poor choice and ultimately the temptation for her to want to terminate. They told both of their families and were met with compassion and love. They began discussing their faith life and growing spiritually together.

My neice is now two years old and a happy, healthy toddler. My brother returns this weekend from service in Iraq and will soon be proposing to his toddler’s mother. She will be going through RCIA this fall and converting to Catholicism next spring.

I often privately wonder what would have happened to this woman had she been left to her guilt and shame and my brother had been unable to persuade her otherwise. I wonder where her faith would be had she not chosen to embrace truth and walk in the difficulty of her choices which ultimately led her to our faith. I don’t think she would be entering the Church next year if my brother had not stayed and prayed and loved her despite her fear and temptation in making such a horrific choice. She is now a good woman of faith who is so grateful for the love and mercy she was shown. She is a good friend of mine, too, and I am grateful for her friendship.

You, too, could have a world of influence upon this young lady merely by offering her the example of your Christian witness. That doesn’t mean you have to counsel her or address it further, it means that you offer her the generosity that God affords each of us. Don’t abandon your friend when she is more wounded then perhaps ever before in her life. She may not realize the damage she has done to her soul or the precious new life she decided to destroy, but in time a new perspective might develop and reaching out to you may be an outlet for her to come back to God.

 

[Cadence]

You say that this friend of yours will never have your forgiveness.
Do you realise that Jesus has already taken the punishment for her sins and yours and all she has to do is repent and strive to sin no more? If God can forgive her, and he has more right to be offended than you, then don’t you think you are sinning gravely to refure forgiveness?

Your sins, my sins and her sins were all responsible for Christ dying on the cross. None of us are any less sinners than the other and it is not your place to judge her. By all means, judge her actions as wrong - they are. But to with hold your friendship is to punish her in a way that you have no right to do.

 

[tamccrackine]

mrs_abbott:

I don’t hate them, I can just never think highly of them. Maybe it seems like the same thing. I apologize for seeming heartless but this is not something I can let go, even though it’s not about me.

It sounds like something you must give up to Christ. Again, I highly recommend YOU attend a retreat. You can gain some healing as well.

mrs_abbott:

I know reasons why women have abortions and they are all different. Some seem more legitimate than others. Like you said, you guys don’t need MY forgiveness to move on with your lives. She’ll never get my forgiveness and as I stated before, the more I talk about it, the more I just can’t be her friend. You can breathe a sigh of relief knowing that I’m not going to be around her. I would never cut her down verbally because she doesn’t need me hurting her while she finally comes back down to reality and realizes the magnitude of what she did. I can’t imagine what a “mind-blower” that is on a woman. I just hope she makes it through life alright. I’ll refer her to this website if she needs someone who can understand because I can’t and never will, as sad as that may seem.

By all means, don’t just refer her to it if she asks. Give it to her on a scrap of paper and tell her “When you feel you need to talk about it, here’s a good starting point.” and leave it at that.

mrs_abbott:

If she would show some ounce of remorse, even just a shred at this point, I wouldn’t be so quick to judge and hate. But alas, she feels pretty good about what she did so I have nothing to do with a proud-to-be baby killer.

I can assume that you have a problem with people you know are sinners walking up to Communion too? She will come around in her own time. I’ve known post abortive women that have taken 20 years to finally come around. I took 10. I was filled with such self hate that it had sunk down into my core and I was so successful in building a wall around it. The holy spirit chipped away, one brick at a time. It’s not YOUR timeline she has to meet. I also know a post abortive woman that doesn’t outwardly show remorse, although being a good friend to her, I can see it in her eyes that she’s afraid. And it’s MY job to bring her to the foot of the cross and show her to not be afraid. I do it through alot of prayer and by Christian love.

And a piece of advice spoken from experience- her behavior is on a downward spiral and what you are condemning through your blinders is actually the negative effects of abortion. She is just not able to link her abortion to her continuous poor choices because she’s in a mental fog of denial, feelings of self-worthlessness and low self-esteem. Until she can make that link, she won’t be able to stop. Look up Post Abortion Stress Disorder and you’ll be able to see how it’s effecting her, even if she doesn’t want to readily admit it. Maybe that will help you to not judge her so harshly and maybe you’ll be able to show a little compassion and help her through this like a true friend would.

Like I said… I will pray for you. See how abortion effects EVERYONE? (Please, research a retreat-- both for you and your friend).

 

[mrs_abbott]

tamccrackine:

I can assume that you have a problem with people you know are sinners walking up to Communion too?

No, actually, you CAN’T assume because it’s off-topic and not something for this thread. Start another thread on it and then I’ll let you know. :yup:

And a piece of advice spoken from experience- her behavior is on a downward spiral and what you are condemning through your blinders is actually the negative effects of abortion. She is just not able to link her abortion to her continuous poor choices because she’s in a mental fog of denial, feelings of self-worthlessness and low self-esteem.

Call it blinders, if you will, but I am not willing to change my viewpoint simply to sympathize with someone who shows no remorse for killing an innocent life. Maybe she will come out of it in 5, 10, or even 20 years. Who knows? Maybe she NEVER will. God’s watching her. Maybe my opinion of her will change if/when she comes out of it. Who knows? Time will tell.

Like I said… I will pray for you. See how abortion effects EVERYONE? (Please, research a retreat-- both for you and your friend).

The effects of abortion wound EVERYONE, you’re right. What’s not to say that one of the many aborted babies could have grown up to become a doctor and cure cancer? I mourn all unborn, aborted babies. At least I can smile knowing that they’re in Heaven with God and living a happy and pain-free existence.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Cadence:

You say that this friend of yours will never have your forgiveness.
Do you realise that Jesus has already taken the punishment for her sins and yours and all she has to do is repent and strive to sin no more? If God can forgive her, and he has more right to be offended than you, then don’t you think you are sinning gravely to refure forgiveness?

Your sins, my sins and her sins were all responsible for Christ dying on the cross. None of us are any less sinners than the other and it is not your place to judge her. By all means, judge her actions as wrong - they are. But to with hold your friendship is to punish her in a way that you have no right to do.

To error is human, to forgive is divine. Looks like when it comes to abortion, I’m only human because I can’t ever forgive ANYONE who would do that. I leave it for God to take care of them. It’s not my place to punish them.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Island Oak:

A dead woman is never healthier than a living one. Even the Catholic Church doesn’t adhere to a standard which requires a pregnant woman to give up her own life to maintain a pregnancy or risk condemnation. In cases where a woman’s own life in in danger (i.e. ectopic/tubal pregnancy) the Church allows for medical intervention necessary to treat the life-threatening condition and save the mother’s life. If, as a result, the pregnancy is terminated, directly or indirectly, it is not considered an abortion.

I would have to add, after following this thread and observing the palpable vehemence of your emotions, perhaps there is more to this story and you would benefit from counseling on this topic. It is one thing to despise the philosophy/mindset that supports and even promotes abortion rights and to be committed to work for change. It is quite another to direct hatred towards specific individuals who have made mistakes in judgment and action simply because their mistake is not the same kind of mistake you would ever make. Some of your posts in this regard border on the irrational given that we all sin and in so doing offend each other and God.

It is a sad fact that 10s of millions of abortions have occured in the 30+ years since Roe. Given that, it is unreasonable for you to expect that you can isolate yourself from adult women who have succumbed to this procedure. It seems unhealthy–spiritually and emotionally–for you to go through life seething with hatred, resentment, condescension and disdain.

It’s an ungodly world that we live in full of hypocrites.

 

[Cadence]

“Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.”

Jesus told us to forgive our brother 77 times 7 times - there is no limit.

If you find it hard to forgive then you must continue to try and take your sin to confession as often as you need.
I pray that your friend will one day find it within herself to be able to ask God for forgiveness for her sin.

In the mean time, don’t focus on her sin, focus on yours and be humble about it. Don’t simply “leave it to God” to forgive. He has asked you to be forgiving too and you must strive to do that no matter how many times you fall.

God knows how many times I have to confess the same sins over and over! Some sins are harder for us than others.

 

[marycontrary]

Ana:

She has no idea what she is in for …:nope:

It is a hell I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

It seems for posts like this that some people actually do wish suffering on women who have had abortions. This seems very uncharitable. It is not up to you to have vengeance or retribution for those whom you perceive to be sinners.

 

[mlchance]

My question to everyone reading this is: Should I remain her friend or should I let her go? I still can’t forgive her for the abortion because she acts like it was no big deal.

Regardless of whether you keep her as a friend, you must forgive her.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[marycontrary]

I don’t understand the idea that you have anything to forgive her for. It is not up to you to forgive. She has not harmed you. You can pray for her, and ask God to forgive her.