Abortion vs Captial Punishment

[levi86]

Brendan:

Why is that? Are they denied the chance to repent of their crimes prior to execution?

Read my post above about Timothy McVeigh (#64)

Are you saying that the execution prevented his rehabilitation?

Just because McVeigh repented does not mean that he was rehabilitated

If McVeigh was truly rehabilitated then there would have been no need to execute him. (not that a failure to rehabilitate is any excuse for capital punishment)

 

[reedtome]

If I’m not mistaken, the death penalty is allowed when the protection of innocents is at stake. Take into consideration the overcrowding of prisons. People who should be separated from society–like child rapists who are very very rarely rehabilitated and often kill thier victims after release–are released after a few months. Those who can be rehabilitated–many drug addicts-- are also not kept long enough or monitored close enough in prison to do them any good. So wouldn’t using the death penalty for cold blooded killers not release space for all these other prisoners? Ofcourse, the way it’s set up now, it costs more to sentence death than life in prison, but that could be fixed. However, taxing enough to be able to house the miriads of criminals that should be in prison would run us into the poorhouse, which would not do justice to the rest of society either.

 

[BillyT92679]

It cannot, in good conscience, be done to support someone who advocates a pro-choice position, or one who supports gay marriage, or embryonic stem cell research, or human cloning. These are issues that are contrary to that natural law and cannot ever be supported.

However, that does not mean that someone who completely advocates capital punishment deserves accolades and support thrown behind him either. It is true that you should vote for the candidate who is against abortion and for the death penalty instead of voting for the pro-abortion, anti-death penalty person. However, the ideal would be someone who is against abortion, gay marriage, and also does not advocate the death penalty.

I personally do not see a need for the death penalty to exist unless the person cannot be contained at all by the actual physical walls of the prison and will go out and do criminal acts again. I see sitting in a jail cell for the rest of your natural life with no possibility to ever leave as just as much of a deterrant as getting killed. John Paul II (Eternal Memory!) petitioned the Governor of Missouri to have a convicted death row felon have his execution commuted, and the governor acquiesced to his request.

 

[BillyT92679]

One thing I should do is to visit prisoners… that is a corporal work of mercy that I and many others forget about. Our Lord even basically commanded it in Matthew 25.

 

[Richwhite]

Joey:

You sound like a Bush hating Democrat who is just looking for any excuse to continue to vote for those who support abortion.

Let’s face it, for the most part, in today’s world, you can’t be truly Catholic and vote for the Democrats.

We Catholics only have a “one party system”.

Most unfortunate, but true.

 

[Richwhite]

Orionthehunter:

I’m having a hard time understanding how capital punishment is different than abortion. In both cases, you are denying somebody of dying at a natural time.

Its easy…The death penalty is punishment for the guilty…Abortion is punishment for the innocent!!

Quite simple

 

[Brendan]

levi86:

Just because McVeigh repented does not mean that he was rehabilitated

If McVeigh was truly rehabilitated then there would have been no need to execute him. (not that a failure to rehabilitate is any excuse for capital punishment)

Well, since repentance means to have sorrow for past actions, and in the Catholic sense, an intent not to commit such actions in the future; how exactly does that differ from ‘rehabilitate’.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Richwhite:

Orionthehunter:

I’m having a hard time understanding how capital punishment is different than abortion. In both cases, you are denying somebody of dying at a natural time.

Its easy…The death penalty is punishment for the guilty…Abortion is punishment for the innocent!!

Quite simple

Well put. Also the death penalty has been used for the innocent as well. And that makes it a sin.

 

[JoeyWarren]

As a result of last nights RCIA while covering the Sacrament of Reconcilation. The Priest said:

Person A has sex with Person C.
Person A leaves person C’s house.
10 minutes later Person B enters Person C’s house.
Person B and murders Person C.

Person A was last known person to visit Person C.
and
Person A’s semen proves that Person A was with Person C 10 minutes prior to the murder of Person C.
Person A gets arrested for the Rape and Murder of Person C.

Person A is in the Court Room ready to be sentenced to the Death Penalty.

Person B becomes remorsal over the the Murder of Person C.
Person B goes to Priest and is forgivened of his sin.
Priest reccomends that Person B go turn himself in to the Police.
Person B agrees.
In route to the Police Station, Person B gets run over by a Mac Truck and dies.

Because of the “Seal of the Confessional” Person A gets electrocuted some years later, because the Priest cannot disclose the confession.

This alone makes Capital Punishment a Sin. The True Innnocent was Judically murdered.

Now with DNA testing, we have discovered that other Innocents have been executed.

Also added to that is it was found out that Innocents have been executed because of:

1. Framing
2. Prosecution suppressing evidence.
3. Public Defender not really putting for the effort because he feels his client is guilty.
4. Bloodthirsty Police
5. Bloodthirsty Judges
6. Bloodthirsty Jurors.
7. and any others I can’t come up with right now.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Richwhite:

Joey:

You sound like a Bush hating Democrat who is just looking for any excuse to continue to vote for those who support abortion.

Let’s face it, for the most part, in today’s world, you can’t be truly Catholic and vote for the Democrats.

We Catholics only have a “one party system”.

Most unfortunate, but true.

Bush hating? YES! Democrat? NO!
I don’t support Abortion either just as I don’t support the death penalty.

 

[fix]

JoeyWarren:

As a result of last nights RCIA while covering the Sacrament of Reconcilation. The Priest said:

This alone makes Capital Punishment a Sin. The True Innnocent was Judically murdered.

Now with DNA testing, we have discovered that other Innocents have been executed.

Also added to that is it was found out that Innocents have been executed because of:

1. Framing
2. Prosecution suppressing evidence.
3. Public Defender not really putting for the effort because he feels his client is guilty.
4. Bloodthirsty Police
5. Bloodthirsty Judges
6. Bloodthirsty Jurors.
7. and any others I can’t come up with right now.

I am generally against the DP partly because innocent folks may be convicted and executed, but unless the people participating in the process know the victim is innocent how are they morally culpable?

 

[JoeyWarren]

fix:

I am generally against the DP partly because innocent folks may be convicted and executed, but unless the people participating in the process know the victim is innocent how are they morally culpable?

There is only one person that knows 100% whether someone is guilty or innocent and that one person is the Trinity.

 

[JoeyWarren]

JoeyWarren:

There is only one person that knows 100% whether someone is guilty or innocent and that one person is the Trinity.

make that two, the other is the person accused…

 

[fix]

JoeyWarren:

There is only one person that knows 100% whether someone is guilty or innocent and that one person is the Trinity.

Why bother with prisons, police, judges, etc using that logic? And, to attribute moral cuplability to those who are unaware is against Catholic teaching.

 

[JoeyWarren]

fix:

Why bother with prisons, police, judges, etc using that logic? And, to attribute moral cuplability to those who are unaware is against Catholic teaching.

no keep them imprisoned for time ordered or until they are found innocent. Have to draw the line somewhere in the logic.

 

[fix]

JoeyWarren:

no keep them imprisoned for time ordered or until they are found innocent. Have to draw the line somewhere in the logic.

So participating in a process where innocent people go to jail until they die and risk being killed in jail is no sin, but participating in the death penalty is a sin?

 

[Brendan]

JoeyWarren:

This alone makes Capital Punishment a Sin. The True Innnocent was Judically murdered.

You mean, of course, it makes that PARTICULAR APPLICATION of the death penalty to be sinful.

That does not render the concept to be sinful.

And FYI, in the case, the Bishop may grant an exemption to the priest to testify that another person had confessed to the crime, but not identify Person B or to give any information that might lead to the identification of Person B.

 

[fix]

Brendan:

You mean, of course, it makes that PARTICULAR APPLICATION of the death penalty to be sinful.

I do not know how such a case would be sinful, meaning culpable, for each person involved if they were unaware of innocence?

 

[JoeyWarren]

Brendan:

And FYI, in the case, the Bishop may grant an exemption to the priest to testify that another person had confessed to the crime, but not identify Person B or to give any information that might lead to the identification of Person B.

But the jury has to be willng to take the testimony at face value. And if you have a bloodthirsty jury, then they may not accept it. If they want blood for blood, then Person A is up ****'s creek without a paddle.

Bloodthirsty jurys and crowds loose all sense of christianity and reason. When the bloodthirst sets in, it’s has always been impossible to forgo.

 

[DreadVandal]

levi86:

Could you please show me where either of the two say that revenge is permitted?

From the CCC:

The first has to do with expiation,

2266 The State’s effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

From the Holy Bible:

Romans 13:3-4

“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou, then, not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same; for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil”