Abortion worse than the Holocaust

[Jerusha]

You did not answer my question.

My answer is this:

"Just as my Son said

1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They said unto him, Teacher, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what say you? 6 This they said, testing him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they who heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing before him. 10 When Jesus had lifted himself up, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those your accusers? has no man condemned you? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.

I also say to you men, would you do as my Joseph did, and honor me? Would you marry a woman pregnant, not knowing who the father is, or a woman with a child out of wedlock, or a woman who has given a child up for adoption? If you would not, then you are guilty of abortion, as much as the woman who has had an abortion. To those other men, take responsibility for your actions. (DNA, today, will force you to do that. )

To the women, I say, your sin has been forgiven through my Son. Just as I did not choose to abort, you also must not choose to abort. Your child may go on to do great things, do not deny him/her that chance. Stand up in dignity against those who would condemn you for your mistake, for they are most likely to have themselves made such a mistake, but not suffered the consequences. That is their problem, do not make it yours."

So, I think, Mary would react. Unless you have such an attitude, I do not respect your for your anti-abortion political activism.

 

[estesbob]

You did not answer my question.

My answer is this:

"Just as my Son said

I also say to you men, would you do as my Joseph did, and honor me? Would you marry a woman pregnant, not knowing who the father is, or a woman with a child out of wedlock, or a woman who has given a child up for adoption? If you would not, then you are guilty of abortion, as much as the woman who has had an abortion. To those other men, take responsibility for your actions. (DNA, today, will force you to do that. )

To the women, I say, your sin has been forgiven through my Son. Just as I did not choose to abort, you also must not choose to abort. Your child may go on to do great things, do not deny him/her that chance. Stand up in dignity against those who would condemn you for your mistake, for they are most likely to have themselves made such a mistake, but not suffered the consequences. That is their problem, do not make it yours."

So, I think, Mary would react. Unless you have such an attitude, I do not respect your for your anti-abortion political activism.

To be honest I dont have a clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[Jerusha]

Perhaps you don’t have any life experiences with such issues. It is really tidy to be an activist with so little contact with reality.

 

[estesbob]

Perhaps you don’t have any life experiences with such issues. It is really tidy to be an activist with so little contact with reality.

I am a longtime CPC counselor. How about you? Stiil the problem is I dont have a clue as to the point you are trying to make

 

[Valke2]

Nazi’s killed 3/4 European Jews: 6 million.

US abortions each year: 1.3-1.6 million

Communist Genocide: 100 million since Bolshevak Revoluion (sp?)

There are few arguments that disgust me more than this one.

 

[estesbob]

There are few arguments that disgust me more than this one.

Being you are Jewish I understand why you would be disgusted. My Jewish friends are very sensitive about anyone appearing to minimize the Holocaust by comparing it to other atrocites. If any of my posts have struck you that way I apologize.

 

[Linnyo]

i think perhaps the whole campaign should tackle not just abortion but also family values. I don’t know about the USA but in the UK it has become clear that the norm is to ba having sex whenever with whomever. Single parents are provided for more readily than married people on a low income. For example, if I were unemployed I wouldn’t get anything cos I am married and my husband earns. If I weren’t married I could claim all manner of benefits. People here ask about your partner, even on legal documents, rather than about your spouse. Marraige has become a sham because divorce is ‘the in thing’. Vows are temporary and not expected to be permanent. And so it goes on…
Family values have gone and promiscuity and temporary pleasure have replaced it. We have a disposable lifestyle and life has become disposable. Tackle family values and abortions will decrease!

 

[bmmckinney]

I’m sick and tired of jewish people thinking that no genocide is worse then the holocaust. Sorry but if more people died from something like genocide then in the holocaust it is worse, get over it.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I’m sick and tired of jewish people thinking that no genocide is worse then the holocaust. Sorry but if more people died from something like genocide then in the holocaust it is worse, get over it.

Whoa there… where is the charity? There is no need to alienate our Jewish friends because we want to point out the atrocities of abortion. The Jews have every right to be sensitive in discussion that relate to the Jewish Holocaust. It isn’t all about the numbers. Jews were targeted to be wiped out via mass slaughter. It was an utter atrocity. As you noted earlier, 6 million Jews died horrific deaths and it is not so well known that another 4 million non-Jews died as well. I used to think “Gee, what about the other four million? Doesn’t anyone care about them?” The truth is that yes, we care about them (there were plenty of Catholics), but they were exterminated for various reasons, boiling down to them being viewed as enemies of the Nazi’s. It is one thing to be targeted as the supposed enemy of a regime, it is quite another to be targeted simply because your heritage and beliefs are viewed as sub-human. Furthermore, it “easier” for the Nazi’s to slaughter the Jews than to separate them out from the “pure race” as they had originally planned. The degradation of the Jews during this period of time cannot be overstated, so please, have some empathy.

The holocaust of abortion is higher in numbers and there are staggering similarities. The babies being aborted are also being treated as “sub-human”. Additionally, in many cases it is “easier” for parents to abort the baby than raise it. But I agree with SoCalRC:

In our faith, we are each a unique creation of a God who can, and does, love us without limit. In mathmatics there is no way to multiply and compare terms which include infinity. Attempting to do so, if anything, is a failure to appreciate the true value, in the eyes of God, of each individual life. The scope of WWII does not diminish the human cost of Vietnam, any more than Veitnam can diminish the true human cost of a single, smaller scale, incident like the Trail of Tears.

I posted it again because I think it is worth re-reading.

Blessings, Prayer_Warrior

PS. Valke, if your reading this, no words can express the sorrow I feel for the Jewish people. No words I could ever write could assuage the grief in the hearts of the Jewish people. It is too little, too late. But still, I feel the need to extend my sympathies and goodwill. :console:

 

[bmmckinney]

I had eastern european ancestors who died in the holocaust for sure. It’s terrible but what is worse is that about 60 million unborn babies die each year across the world.

It is ok to put evils in comparrison. Too often abortion supporting cultural jewish people cry out when we compare the two. Why is it that many prolife jewish people agree wholeheartedly that aboriton is so much worse but we must learn from the holocaust? Apparently they are wrong in the eyes of these cultural jews. If you’ve heard that you can’t be catholic and support abortion its much stricter being jewish and abortion.

I think its ok to put these liberals in their place when they whine and try to change the subject. Sure no matter how many people died its still terrible but thats not the point its what can we learn.

 

[Jerusha]

Thank you, Linnyo, you amplify my point very well.

 

[Jerusha]

Given the state of sexual behavior in the US, and other countries, if abortion were suddenly banned, it would only be driven underground. We need to change behavior and attitudes, not just laws. Same logic that applies to the Civil War debate.

I am right-to-life. That means much more than anti-abortion. We are not just talking about one issue, but an entire attitude towards life. And the beginning statement of this thread puts an inflammatory cast on the argument, rather than a logical one.

 

[fix]

Given the state of sexual behavior in the US, and other countries, if abortion were suddenly banned, it would only be driven underground. We need to change behavior and attitudes, not just laws. Same logic that applies to the Civil War debate.

I am right-to-life. That means much more than anti-abortion. We are not just talking about one issue, but an entire attitude towards life. And the beginning statement of this thread puts an inflammatory cast on the argument, rather than a logical one.

But, changing the law is necesary. It may not be sufficient, but it is necessary. The civil law should not condone murder. Should bank robbery only be proscribed by changing people’s minds on the matter and through better education?

The most vulnerable among us need protection. That means unborn children. Other issues matter as well, but if we fail to see how hideous it is to kill children I wonder why you think the other important issues will suddenly be seen as pressing?

 

[estesbob]

Given the state of sexual behavior in the US, and other countries, if abortion were suddenly banned, it would only be driven underground. We need to change behavior and attitudes, not just laws. Same logic that applies to the Civil War debate.

We’ve tried that solution for 35 years. It just simply has not worked. The idea that we should allow the continued slaughter of our children until everyone agrees is not right to slaughter them is specious. And please don’t trot out the old discredited myth of back alley (underground ) abortions. I also hope you’re not suggesting that because people will disobey a law means there shouldn’t be a law. I find it interesting that only in the abortion debates is a specious argument made.

I am right-to-life. That means much more than anti-abortion. We are not just talking about one issue, but an entire attitude towards life.

As for Church rightly teaches no issue or a combination of issues are more important than abortion. Aboortion is the primary pro- life issue. Nothing else even comes close.

 

[Linnyo]

For what it’s worth, we haven’t tried to change attitudes to life for the last 35 years. Instead, governments and institutions have relaxed their moral stances. In school children are actively taught that sex is fine if they are over 16 and that they should wear condoms so that they don’t ‘get caught’. Children must be taught that sex outside marraige is wrong and it needs to become socially unacceptable to sleep around. Chastity needs to be taught, and none of this wishy washy sex education that happens in schools. I brought this up with local politicians who thought the answer is to increase sex ed in schools. i argued that they had done that but the number of abortions increased. This is because sex-ed annot be taught in isolation from morals which is what our schools currently do.

We’ve tried that solution for 35 years. It just simply has not worked. The idea that we should allow the continued slaughter of our children until everyone agrees is not right to slaughter them is specious. And please don’t trot out the old discredited myth of back alley (underground ) abortions. I also hope you’re not suggesting that because people will disobey a law means there shouldn’t be a law. I find it interesting that only in the abortion debates is a specious argument made.

As for Church rightly teaches no issue or a combination of issues are more important than abortion. Aboortion is the primary pro- life issue. Nothing else even comes close.

 

[Jerusha]

There is the problem. I have been told by an educator that ethics and morality cannot be taught in the public schools because it is intrinsically caught up in religiously-based values.

Abortion is the primary pro- life issue. Nothing else even comes close.

I suppose that is what your tidy little world taught you. My experiences are totally different.

 

[estesbob]

There is the problem. I have been told by an educator that ethics and morality cannot be taught in the public schools because it is intrinsically caught up in religiously-based values.

I suppose that is what your tidy little world taught you. My experiences are totally different.

Actually it’s the teachings of the Catholic Church. Teachings I agree with But then I agree with ALL their teachings.

 

[Teeliumtrozzle]

Not enough my friend, we have to fight as Catholic warriors to stop this genocide.
Catholic Jihad, here we come

your right-I made a webpage about it-http://pages.matmice.com/home/let_the_babies_live

 

[Linnyo]

Yes it may be the teachiong of the church but the schools, politicians, media and anything outside the church is undermining the teachings of the church when it come to values. As a parent who teaches chastity and moral rights and wrongs, I have to be very careful to withdraw my children from sex ed so as not to be undermined. I know what is taught in school cos I’m a teacher. Many others do not have that advantage. The schools and media play a big part in shaping our children’s understanding of right and wrong. As a population we should be telling the politicians what we want ourchildren to be taught. We need to make a stand against the downfall of family values. We will then be in a better position to reduce abortions.

Actually it’s the teachings of the Catholic Church. Teachings I agree with But then I agree with ALL their teachings.

 

[estesbob]

Yes it may be the teachiong of the church but the schools, politicians, media and anything outside the church is undermining the teachings of the church when it come to values. As a parent who teaches chastity and moral rights and wrongs, I have to be very careful to withdraw my children from sex ed so as not to be undermined. I know what is taught in school cos I’m a teacher. Many others do not have that advantage. The schools and media play a big part in shaping our children’s understanding of right and wrong. As a population we should be telling the politicians what we want ourchildren to be taught. We need to make a stand against the downfall of family values. We will then be in a better position to reduce abortions.

Agreed. The war is fought on many fronts. One approach does not exclude the other.