Abortion. would you rather she...

[kimmielittle]

Statistically the past outcome has already happened and so it has no probability of reversal, and it has not effect on future outcomes. This is one of the gambler’s fallacies. It does not matter where she had an abortion given the fact that the outcome is common to both scenarios.

These are just false moral dilemmas.

ABSOLUTELY

 

[kimmielittle]

Not for the child.

And herein ls the Truth:thumbsup:

 

[st_lucy]

Yes of course I have my own answer. But I’m interested in hearing what a Catholic would prefer, for a woman whose already had an abortion…would they wish for her to have received an abortion in a health care facility or in a back alley.

Well, when we have given you our answer you po-poed it and then perseded to call us names. But when someone answered in the manner you liked you thumbs-uped them.

Also I would love to see your stats on back alley abortion.

 

[Desertsailor]

A hypothetical scenario;

You have a female acquaintance and you just found out that she had an abortion. This female lives in a state where abortion is illegal. However, the woman lives beside a state that has legalized abortion.

Upon hearing the news, would you rather hear that;

A). The woman sought an illegal back alley abortion.

B). The woman sought a legal abortion in a modern health care facility.

Discuss.

First of all a back alley abortion is done in a doctor’s office by a doctor in a modern health care facility. It just isn’t on the books.
The legal abortion is done exactly the same. It’s just ‘on the books’.

I don’t see the difference. The baby is still dead and the woman is still in the state of mortal sin and in danger of hell.

 

[Zatzat]

Of course she had a choice. Once she made the choice to kill her child the the method she decided to use and who she paid to do it is irelevant-which has been pointed out ad nauseum. It was./is a silly question and you should put no more stock in peoples refusal to answer your silly question than one should in your refusal to answer the multitide of similarly sillly qeustions asked of you in this thread,

What of those who chose to take my question head on and who actually answered it within the parameters I created?

Are they also silly?

 

[Zatzat]

Statistically the past outcome has already happened and so it has no probability of reversal, and it has not effect on future outcomes. This is one of the gambler’s fallacies. It does not matter where she had an abortion given the fact that the outcome is common to both scenarios.

These are just false moral dilemmas.

Is the body not a temple? Does the body not face a greater risk of harm in a back alley abortion vs doing so in a health care facility?

God will be upset at the abortion. But would God not also be upset that a temple was damaged?

 

[st_lucy]

What of those who chose to take my question head on and who actually answered it within the parameters I created?

Are they also silly?

Are you attempting to tell us that the majority of people (since only three to four people answered in the manner you approved of) on this thread did not answer the question head on?

 

[Zatzat]

Are you attempting to tell us that the majority of people (since only three to four people answered in the manner you approved of) on this thread did not answer the question head on?

Uhm, yes?

I presented a crystal clear hypothetical scenario. Some answered it directly. Some explained why they wouldn’t answer it ( which is good), some attacked my motivation and others tried to get me off topic.

 

[st_lucy]

Is the body not a temple? Does the body not face a greater risk of harm in a back alley abortion vs doing so in a health care facility?

God will be upset at the abortion. But would God not also be upset that a temple was damaged?

The body is also damaged in a “clinical abortion” you do understand. They ripped open her cervices and in many cases that is permanent.

 

[Zatzat]

The body is also damaged in a “clinical abortion” you do understand. They ripped open her cervices and in many cases that is permanent.

Source please?

 

[st_lucy]

Source please?

nrlc.org/abortion/asmf/asmf13.html

pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

Just to name a couple I have a lot more if you would like.

Now that I was more than welling to share my stats, I am still waiting on your back alley abortion stats.

 

[st_lucy]

Source please?

I also find this one interesting although the other two say the same thing. You can read the whole thing here.

Compared to pregnant women who had their babies, pregnant women who aborted were …
• 3.5 times more likely to die in the following year
• 1.6 times more likely to die of natural causes
• 6 times more likely to die of suicide
• 14 times more likely to die from homicide
• 4 times more likely to die of injuries related to accidents1
Another study found that, compared to women who gave birth, women who had abortions had a 62% higher risk of
death from all causes for at least eight years after their pregnancies. Deaths from suicides and accidents were most
prominent, with deaths from suicides being 2.5 times higher.2
Causes of death within a week — The leading causes of abortion-related maternal deaths within a week of abortion
are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia complications, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies.3

 

[kimmielittle]

Source please?

Sure…let me know if you need more.

THE PHYSICAL COMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION
National statistics on abortion show that 10% of women undergoing induced abortion suffer from immediate complications, of which one-fifth (20%) were considered major.9,11
Over one hundred potential complications have been associated with induced abortion. “Minor” complications include: minor infections, bleeding, fevers, chronic abdominal pain, gastro-intestinal disturbances, vomiting, and Rh sensitization. The nine most common “major” complications are infection, excessive bleeding, embolism, ripping or perforation of the uterus, anesthesia complications, convulsions, hemorrhage, cervical injury, and endotoxic shock.23
In a series of 1,182 abortions which occurred under closely regulated hospital conditions, 27 percent of the patients acquired post-abortion infection lasting 3 days or longer.27
While the immediate complications of abortion are usually treatable, these complications frequently lead to long-term reproductive damage of much more serious nature.
For example, one possible outcome of abortion related infections is sterility. Researchers have reported that 3 to 5 percent of aborted women are left inadvertently sterile as a result of the operation’s latent morbidity.33,23 The risk of sterility is even greater for women who are infected with a venereal disease at the time of the abortion.30
In addition to the risk of sterility, women who acquire post-abortal infections are five to eight times more likely to experience ectopic pregnancies.7,20 Between 1970-1983, the rate of ectopic pregnancies in USA has risen 4 fold.4 Twelve percent of all maternal deaths due to ectopic pregnancy.2 Other countries which have legalized abortion have seen the same dramatic increase in ectopic pregnancies.14,30
Cervical damage is another leading cause of long term complications following abortion. Normally the cervix is rigid and tightly closed. In order to perform an abortion, the cervix must be stretched open with a great deal of force. During this forced dilation there is almost always caused microscopic tearing of the cervix muscles and occasionally severe ripping of the uterine wall, as well.
According to one hospital study, 12.5% of first trimester abortions required stitching for cervical lacerations.31 Such attention to detail is not normally provided at an outpatient abortion clinic. Another study found that lacerations occurred in 22 percent of aborted women.1 Women under 17 have been found to face twice the normal risk of suffering cervical damage due to the fact that their cervixes are still “green” and developing.26,28

abortionfacts.com/reardon/after_effects_of_abortion.asp

 

[Zatzat]

nrlc.org/abortion/asmf/asmf13.html

pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

Just to name a couple I have a lot more if you would like.

Now that I was more than welling to share my stats, I am still waiting on your back alley abortion stats.

BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS KILL WOMEN AND TEENS

Women and teenagers in Africa die at
alarming rates as a result of unsafe abortions, according to a
new report from the French Center of Population and Development
(CEPED).

who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/unsafe_abortion/article_unsafe_abortion.pdf

Estimated 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions and millions more have complications…many permanent.

 

[Zatzat]

nrlc.org/abortion/asmf/asmf13.html

pregnancycenters.org/abortion.html

Just to name a couple I have a lot more if you would like.

Now that I was more than welling to share my stats, I am still waiting on your back alley abortion stats.

From your source, 200 women have died from safe abortions since 1973.

From my source, World Health Organization, 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions.

Your source was also quite weak in listing specific and the numbers, of long term health issues. Your sources are also heavily biased web sites.

My sources are factual and neutral.

What point were you trying to make again?

 

[st_lucy]

From your source, 200 women have died from safe abortions since 1973.

From my source, World Health Organization, 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions.

Your source was also quite week in listing specific and the numbers, of long term health issues. Your sources are also heavily biased web sites.

What point were you trying to make again?

All abortions are unsafe? There is absolutely no such thing as a safe abortion. Some always dies during an abortion.

Anyway I am still trying to make head way with your article, give me some time. I need to compare numbers.

 

[kimmielittle]

BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS KILL WOMEN AND TEENS

Women and teenagers in Africa die at
alarming rates as a result of unsafe abortions, according to a
new report from the French Center of Population and Development
(CEPED).

who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/unsafe_abortion/article_unsafe_abortion.pdf

Estimated 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions and millions more have complications…many permanent.

I wouldn’t use CEPED for reference…they promote abortion as a solution . You might as well reference Peter Singer…Margret Sanger…Marie Stoples or IPCC Population Control

 

[kimmielittle]

From your source, 200 women have died from safe abortions since 1973.

From my source, World Health Organization, 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions.

Your source was also quite weak in listing specific and the numbers, of long term health issues. Your sources are also heavily biased web sites.

My sources are factual and neutral.

What point were you trying to make again?

You are wrong…WHO is partners with Marie Stopes International who.int/hac/global_health_cluster/about/partners/en/index.html

 

[st_lucy]

From your source, 200 women have died from safe abortions since 1973.

From my source, World Health Organization, 68,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions.

Your source was also quite weak in listing specific and the numbers, of long term health issues. Your sources are also heavily biased web sites.

My sources are factual and neutral.

What point were you trying to make again?

Well just looking up a couple of your authors from your article, I can see that they are each huge in pushing reproductive control in third world countries. So I hardly find them unbiased.

David A Grimes – served on the Cochrane systematic reviews of fertility regulation methods – which pushes for abortion in foreign countries read that here. mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD002855/abstract.html

Susheela Singh – among her many interest she has a huge interest in this Her current areas of international research include the costs and benefits of providing reproductive health services, the economic costs of unsafe abortion, unplanned pregnancy and abortion, prevention of HIV among youth in Sub Saharan Africa, adolescent sexual and reproductive behavior in Central America, and unmet need for contraception in developing countries

Bela Ganatra- Wow! I found her background articles amazingly biased. From her articles see seems to think that all woman who have children are robots their husband/family.

 

[limabeanerson]

First of all the definition of “troll”:
“noun transitive verb online fool Internet user into responding: to lure other Internet users into sending responses to carefully designed incorrect statements”

It seems you are very much a troll. A troll can be (and maybe in this case is) interested in the responses. You are using carefully designed incorrect statements (as has been repeatedly shown through out this thread). You are doing it to get people to respond.

None the less, being the fool that I am, I’ll feed this particular troll. First let me say that I’m choosing to ignore all the problems with your question that were so eloquently pointed out through this thread, even though I agree with them.

Assuming you mean “back ally abortion” literally in that the abortion took place in an ally somewhere I’d rather it be done in a medical facility so the woman has a better chance at survival. The higher chance of survival for the woman the better so she has a better chance at finding God and forgiveness.

That being said, if I were in a position where my vote could make abortions illegal I would would cast that vote every time.