Abortion

[Blade_and_Blood]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe. I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

 

[CapIV]

let’s legalize murder, infanticide, and theft while we are at it, and just teach our children that is wrong because it will happen anyway if we keep it illegal

 

[YADA]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

Why do you hate it? If it is just a matter of how one thinks like preferring red over blue, then why hate abortion more then life? Do you hate red and love blue? … But it is not just a matter of personal opinion, is it? … Abortion is a matter of life and death … Perhaps you have heard this before … this country is founded upon this principal … that we hold these truths to be inalienable and endowed by our creator … the right to LIFE, LIBERTY and te PURSUIT of HAPPINESS … note this is not guaranteed happiness but the pursuit of … and all rights are first found in the right to life!!!

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe.

No many of them would think twie before having sexual relations, many more would keep their child … this is a false arguemnt. Think of rape or car theft [in fact any crime] … do we make legal rape because if you make it illegal the rapist will murder the victim to prevent reporting the crime … thus legalizing it may save some lives? NO, rape is illegal and should be … Car theives somtimes cause car crashes where innocent lives are hurt. Should we allow legalized car theivery to prevent this? Silliness

I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Death from abortion is not rare for the child … in fact surviving an abortion is rare but does happen. I know a couple who adopted just such a child even though he suffered severe disabilities as a result of the attack on his life …

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

Well the schools teach chidren not to confide to their parents … NARAL and planned parenthood actively interfer in the parent/child relationship … and laws [FOCA will be one if OBAMA gets the chance] are passed to allow minor chidren to obtain abortions without parental consent or notification …

It is hard to tell a child anything when the likes of Al Gore [teachers, coaches and others] tell them not to believe their parents, not to trust their parents and not to confide in their parents

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe. I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

Right, that would happen now, since abortion has been legal for 36 years. They wouldn’t have to go far to abort their babies, though, as I have no doubt whatsoever that were abortion to become illegal overnight, a group of passionate lawbreakers would vow to create an underground railraod of abortion clinics.

Pandora is out of the box, and the only way to change the current status is to win the war of information and change people’s minds and hearts with the truth. Even now, the laws are absolutely ignored. Roe v. Wade removed restrictions on abortion only through the first trimester, yet those laws are ignored, with second trimester abortions being performed all of the time. A second trimester abortion was never intended to be legal on demand. The justices intended second trimester abortions to be legal in difficult and very, very rare cases, such as life of the mother in real danger or rape. And yet, we’ve seen that people who believe in killing children will do so without apology, and entirely ignore the law. A third trimester abortion is an oxymoron at this point, though it was still conceivable in 1973. Now, almost all babies can survive outside the womb by the third trimester. Yet, they are still deliberately cut into bits inside the womb. How can any civilized society allow this?

In the case of abortion, there is very little to debate. We could have debates about zygotes and embryos, because we can’t see a fully formed person there. But, by the time we are into about the 8th week of development, we have passed the point of rational debate. By about that point in development, we have a body that resembles an infant, and is recognizably human. At this point, if we make any case for killing this little human body, we invalidate all laws protecting human life outside the womb.

The funny thing is, most people see it this way. Most people agree. There are a lot of people who just will not agree to make abortion illegal because of what you say- their fear that girls will harm themselves seeking abortions.

In that case, we’d make sex dangerous again. And perhaps that would be a good thing.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I think I very much favor Angels Unaware’s response. Thank you for being mature about this.

This was simply something I’ve been wondering about. I am pro-life, though I can’t stand the idea of a hanger being a solution. I guess you can say I underestimate mankind, but as ironic as *this *will sound, I overestimate individuals.

Then again, I do have to remember that not very many people think like I do.

I look forward to more responses.

Ironically Yours.

 

[RobbyS]

Right, that would happen now, since abortion has been legal for 36 years. They wouldn’t have to go far to abort their babies, though, as I have no doubt whatsoever that were abortion to become illegal overnight, a group of passionate lawbreakers would vow to create an underground railraod of abortion clinics.

Pandora is out of the box, and the only way to change the current status is to win the war of information and change people’s minds and hearts with the truth. Even now, the laws are absolutely ignored. Roe v. Wade removed restrictions on abortion only through the first trimester, yet those laws are ignored, with second trimester abortions being performed all of the time. A second trimester abortion was never intended to be legal on demand. The justices intended second trimester abortions to be legal in difficult and very, very rare cases, such as life of the mother in real danger or rape. And yet, we’ve seen that people who believe in killing children will do so without apology, and entirely ignore the law. A third trimester abortion is an oxymoron at this point, though it was still conceivable in 1973. Now, almost all babies can survive outside the womb by the third trimester. Yet, they are still deliberately cut into bits inside the womb. How can any civilized society allow this?

In the case of abortion, there is very little to debate. We could have debates about zygotes and embryos, because we can’t see a fully formed person there. But, by the time we are into about the 8th week of development, we have passed the point of rational debate. By about that point in development, we have a body that resembles an infant, and is recognizably human. At this point, if we make any case for killing this little human body, we invalidate all laws protecting human life outside the womb.

The funny thing is, most people see it this way. Most people agree. There are a lot of people who just will not agree to make abortion illegal because of what you say- their fear that girls will harm themselves seeking abortions.

In that case, we’d make sex dangerous again. And perhaps that would be a good thing.

Making abortion legally was never in the cards. There was already many states that had legalized it before Roe v. Wade. What happened in 1973 was the turning of abortion into a constitutional right-- no a “human” right. At a stroke of the pen, the states were stripped of the power to limit abortions, except
by the most round about ways. If Roe were overturned today, many states, more than in 1973, would retain the right. If a woman wanted an abortion, all she has to do is travel. If Jane Doe had really wanted an abortion, she could have had it with a
$100 bus ticket to, say, California, or, for much less than that to
Mexico. I could have told her where to go to get an illegal but relatively safe abortion in Shreveport, TX.

Now the pro-abortion forces are poised to eliminate most of the local restrictions on abortion. They have managed to persuade judges that a 14-year old is able to make a reasoned choice to abort her child with the interfeence of her parents. BUT, I may add, will not support the girl --not much–if she chooses to have a child, or offer it ip for adoption, against the wishes of her parents or boyfriend.

The aim of the abortionists is to make abotion as readily available as in the old socialist countries, East Germany, Russia, or Cuba. It is an article of faith with them that only if women have this “freedom” that they are truly equal to men.

 

[puzzleannie]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe. I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

absolutely right, perfectly logical. After all, if murder was illegal, there would still be people who would go out and shoot their boss or poison their wife, so why have such a law at all? Why not educated children about responsibility.

If speeding and reckless driving and DWI was made illegal, some people might still be tempted to do it, and could get hurt in the process, so why have any laws at all?

 

[Snerticus]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe. I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

Blade, if we legalized murder would that mean less men would murder? What do you think?. We already KNOW that murder is evil and wrong. Yet if we legalized it, I have this tiny little nagging feeling the number of murders would go up signifantly.

Another thing that has to be taken into consideration is that if we continue to have legalized abortions, generation after generation would learn that it’s no big deal. Because the government gives it’s stamp of approval. If we went back to say, the 1950’s, abortion would be thought of as a horror. Today, I know women who just because they had sex one night when they were drunk and don’t have any idea who the father would be, get an abortion because they simply don’t want a baby. Why? Because the governement says we can.

We have to take responisiblity for our actions. Yes, education is key, but so is governmental cooperation. The problem is, most people today don’t think extramarital sex is a sin. It still is, and will always be. When you sin, you need to accept the consequences. To not do so now will mean that you will at some other time. Legalizing abortion will send many to Hell, and the government would be the main responsible party to it. Mr. Obama doesn’t realize what he’s doing. This is part of the devils lie, to make people think that sins are good and that good is sinful. Yes, trying to help out a pregnant woman with not much money is a good thing, but sending her to Hell is not on top of my list of “good things”. “To those who have been given much, much will be required.”

If we illegalized abortion, true, some women would probably hurt themselves, but that number would be miniscule. Most would try to find an illegal clinic or something or go to a different country where it was legal. Even so, MUCH less women would have abortions. Do you think that 50 million babies would still be dead today if abortion had stayed illegal?

 

[YADA]

I think I very much favor Angels Unaware’s response. Thank you for being mature about this.

This was simply something I’ve been wondering about. I am pro-life, though I can’t stand the idea of a hanger being a solution. I guess you can say I underestimate mankind, but as ironic as *this *will sound, I overestimate individuals.

Then again, I do have to remember that not very many people think like I do.

I look forward to more responses.

Ironically Yours.

In many states today, the abortionist is not required to be a doctor or trained medical person … and what of the child … hanger, poison pill, saline solution or vacuum cleaner … the child dies … have you no compassion for the innocent unborn? …

You said “Abortion deaths are rare” … but the reality they are not rare, death occurs in every successful abortion …

that is why they use the euphemism “Choice” … and now even “Reproductive Choice” … but they never say what the choice is … the choice is to kill a child … who is given no choice …

You say you under estimate mankind [and I think rightly so] … this “mankind” has given us a society that promotes sexual promiscuity and serial [at best] monogamy, allows the killing of children as a common place “right” [1,400,000 in the US annually] … we elected a president who decries the use of war weapons on people whose leaders can negotiate and from which people can seek refuge and may escape. This same president’s “Smart bomb” of choice [pun intended] is the abortionist. The abortionist will kill of our fellow man in far greater annual numbers and whose victims have no political voice and are unable to seek refuge or escape … Mankind in our society is destroying the family … for instant sexual gratification withoout consequence …

Individuals will do the right thing … proof … parental notification laws [which will be overturned by FOCA] reduce abortions by a net 15% … that is right … notifying parents produces 15% more live births …

Ultrasounds reduce abortions even more … that put a face, a shape and a heart beat to the “Its just a blob of tissue” lie …

Abortions do not help woment, Abortion hurts women and society as a whole … Abortion kills, it kills the child and it kills the soul of society … if the innocent are not safe, no one is safe …

 

[JimG]

Even now, the laws are absolutely ignored. Roe v. Wade removed restrictions on abortion only through the first trimester, yet those laws are ignored, with second trimester abortions being performed all of the time.

I have to disagree with this part. Roe v Wade in conjunction with Doe v Bolton (decided on the same day) makes abortion legal throughout all nine months of pregnancy.

In the first trimester, the State can not prohibit abortion at all. In the second trimester, the State, under Roe, is allowed to have some interest in fetal life, but abortion must always be permitted to save the life or protect the health of the mother.

In the third trimester, according to Roe, the State could go so far as to prohibit abortion, but only if exceptions are allowed to save the life or protect the health of the mother.

The companion decision Doe v Bolton, went on to describe “health” in such wide ranging terms so as to include not only physical and mental health, but family health, economic condition and family factors. Under Doe, the concept of health is so expansive as to include whatever the abortionist wants to include. In fact, it is the abortionist who decides. Under Roe and Doe, there is not one abortion that has or can be prohibited.

The partial birth abortion ban was passed (after three tries) only by making a specific finding that there was never a ‘health’ reason to justify it. Other types of third trimester abortions remain legal.

As a result, abortion remains legal throughout nine months of pregnancy for virtually any reason that the abortionist deems sufficient.

 

[wanner47]

Here’s the thing, BaB. By making abortion legal because otherwise some women might seek an illegal abortion, you’re effectively sending the message that women should not have to deal with negative consequences if they make a bad choice.

It’d be like making robbery legal just so robbers won’t fall and break their legs if they choose to rob a house.

Abortion should be illegal because murder is wrong. Period. If a woman chooses to commit murder and is hurt in the process, then she must deal with the consequences of her bad choice.

 

[Snerticus]

This started me thinking. With this FOCA thing, what would happen if a 14 year old girl got pregnant and didn’t tell her parents she was getting an abortion? So she went merrily to the clinic and in some unforseen circumstance, died during the abortion and became one of those “rare” cases.

Now, her parents know nothing of this, remember? So what happens next? What if you were one of those parents? (I’d sue the government for 1.2 trillion dollars and give it all to charities that protect the dignity of life.)

How do you think Obama would feel if it were his daughter?

 

[JimG]

This started me thinking. With this FOCA thing, what would happen if a 14 year old girl got pregnant and didn’t tell her parents she was getting an abortion? So she went merrily to the clinic and in some unforseen circumstance, died during the abortion and became one of those “rare” cases.

Now, her parents know nothing of this, remember? So what happens next? What if you were one of those parents? (I’d sue the government for 1.2 trillion dollars and give it all to charities that protect the dignity of life.)

How do you think Obama would feel if it were his daughter?

She would have the option to bypass her parents by getting a judge’s approval. Assuming the law provided for that, the parents would have no legal cause of action. That could be the case in many locales right now. But FOCA would make regulating health and safety standards of abortion clinics evern more impossible, thus increasing the chances of such an outcome.

 

[Snerticus]

But FOCA would make regulating health and safety standards of abortion clinics evern more impossible, thus increasing the chances of such an outcome.

That just sends shivers down my spine!

 

[survive]

A former abortionist who helped to push Roe v. Wade has come out and admitted to making up the widely-quoted and continually-inflated figures on how many women died from illegal abortion before Roe. He says the real number is probably what law-enforcement and health authorities knew it to be back then: about 200 per year. That’s roughly the same as the number who die from legal abortion now, as I almost did in the 1990’s.
Yes, legal abortion is a little safer for the mother per abortion, but there are many times more abortions when it’s legal. Roe immediately increased the number of abortions, going on realistic estimates based on medical records, death records, confidential surveys and all relevant data, by a factor of at least ten and possibly a hundredfold. Even if it’s only a factor of ten, that means making it illegal would likely cut the number of abortions per year to ten percent what it would otherwise have been. Now, of women on their way to abort who see the ultrasound, I heard a nurse report that nine-tenths change their minds and choose life. Of course, abortion “providers” don’t often let the mother see the ultrasound. Planned Parenthood’s own internal documents instruct the technicians, nurses and doctors to make sure the mother can’t see the screen, and to misrepresent what it shows to avoid her finding out she as a baby inside herself. If abortion were illegal now, in the age of 4-D, and if pregnancy confirmation came with a look at the screen by medical standards, that would cut that tenth to a hundredth (one-tenth of one-tenth).
Women seeking abortion typically cited lack of financial support and fear of social stigma, and unreadiness to raise a child, in the 1970’s, each of these factors accounting for three out of four cases. Even if there is total overlap of these categories so that only 3/4 were for any of these reasons, eliminating the categories is easy: Today, most schools and workplaces have day care and parental leave is available to everyone; there is no stigma, quite the opposite, it’s like a badge of honor as the song says; couples awaiting a child so outnumber available children that most of them are willing to make whatever arrangements the birthmother wants and pay her medical bills as well; and if abortion were illegal the abortion mill wouldn’t be the first and easiest stop. Instead, hospitals and nurses’ offices could provide information letting the new mothers know all this, so they’d realize there is nothing to fear. That would leave the tiny number who have ectopic or other life-threatening pregnancies, who would be able to abort in a hospital, and a sliver of one percent who would abort because of an emotional fear of pregnancy, coercion by someone else or panic etc. In cases of coercion, if abortion were illegal with the abuse-prevention resources we have now, those mothers could be rescued along with their children, and the abusers could be prosecuted.
I believe the evidence points to a probable reduction of elective abortions to about a five-hundredth as many as we have now.

 

[Paul2274]

In many states today, the abortionist is not required to be a doctor or trained medical person … and what of the child … hanger, poison pill, saline solution or vacuum cleaner … the child dies … have you no compassion for the innocent unborn? …

You said “Abortion deaths are rare” … but the reality they are not rare, death occurs in every successful abortion …

that is why they use the euphemism “Choice” … and now even “Reproductive Choice” … but they never say what the choice is … the choice is to kill a child … who is given no choice …

You say you under estimate mankind [and I think rightly so] … this “mankind” has given us a society that promotes sexual promiscuity and serial [at best] monogamy, allows the killing of children as a common place “right” [1,400,000 in the US annually] … we elected a president who decries the use of war weapons on people whose leaders can negotiate and from which people can seek refuge and may escape. This same president’s “Smart bomb” of choice [pun intended] is the abortionist. The abortionist will kill of our fellow man in far greater annual numbers and whose victims have no political voice and are unable to seek refuge or escape … Mankind in our society is destroying the family … for instant sexual gratification withoout consequence …

Individuals will do the right thing … proof … parental notification laws [which will be overturned by FOCA] reduce abortions by a net 15% … that is right … notifying parents produces 15% more live births …

Ultrasounds reduce abortions even more … that put a face, a shape and a heart beat to the “Its just a blob of tissue” lie …

Abortions do not help woment, Abortion hurts women and society as a whole … Abortion kills, it kills the child and it kills the soul of society … if the innocent are not safe, no one is safe …

Great Post!!

Absolutely every thought in my head exactly…:yup:

Brilliant…:aok:

Paul

 

[YADA]

She would have the option to bypass her parents by getting a judge’s approval. Assuming the law provided for that, the parents would have no legal cause of action. That could be the case in many locales right now. But FOCA would make regulating health and safety standards of abortion clinics evern more impossible, thus increasing the chances of such an outcome.

She won’t even need a Judges bypass becasue under FOCA every existing law that limits access to abortion would be overturned … ever parental notification law …

Your 11 year old daughter an be taken by her 30 year old boyfriend to the local planned parenthood to get an abortion without your knowldge … and you can’t just sue the government … in those rare cases where suits are allowed they have narrow and limited liability limits …

Sorry, the Trillions in $$$'s from the government are for congressional pet [pork] projects and the exporting of abortions only …

 

[jean8]

Abortion is obviously a hot topic. Now, although I am pro-life–God Almighty knows I hate abortion more than life itself, but I have to remember that not everyone thinks like I do. Quitters find a way to quit.

If abortion was illegal, girls would go to the extremes by harming themselves just to get rid of their child. I think it is utterly selfish, but I think I’d rather people be safe. I understand abortion is risky and even traumatizing, but I also understand that death from abortion is quite rare.

Instead of illegalizing abortion, why not just teach children the importance of responsibility and show them that you will be there for them if they do happen to mess up? Education is the key, of course, but I have no hesitation in saying “Responsibility to the responsible.”

Ironically Yours, Bade and Blood

There isn’t one girl over ten years old that doesn’t know what happens when you have sex. That’s how babies are made. their term.
On the other hand, they do not know that killing a baby in the womb is murder, which is now legal. Thanks to the nitwits in our government and the nitwits that voted them in. We now have one as our President.
The responsiblity of motherhood AND fathehood falls on both parents, not just the mother! Where are all these Romeo’s when it’s killing time? Looking for another conquest?

jwan8

 

[bradwill911]

Abortion was illegal in this country and was still performed quite regularly. That isn’t an argument in favor of keeping it legal, it is just a statistical fact. There was a time when people traveled to states where it was legal if they were living where it was illegal. I’d imagine people would drive to Canada for the procedure (again, not an argument to keep it legal).

I agree with you that we need to do FAR more to lower the number of abortions and to properly educate our children in the Theology of the Body. It would be difficult to do this in public schools without discussing the use of artificial contraception (another grave issue in the RCC).

I’ve mentioned this before, but I think there needs to be a waiting period where the mother is counseled about abortion and talks to regretful mothers who aborted their babies. I think they should all receive an ultra-sound, have adoption counseling, etc. There are many other things that could be included in this waiting period. I think naming the baby, and planning a funeral could help humanize the whole procedure (for those who just think they are ridding themselves of a mass of cells).

As far as the argument that you wouldn’t decriminalize murder, theft, etc…that’s just not an argument when the crowd that needs to hear your voice doesn’t believe that an abortion is murder. In my opinion, if abortion is to be criminalized, it shouldn’t be separate from laws governing murder. We need for society to accept that an abortion is the killing of a person and since the killing of a person is illegal, then abortion is illegal (the age of the victim would be an aggravating circumstance). The question is, will society ever be “ok” with charging a woman and her doctor with first degree murder for an abortion? Would the cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother make it something less than 1st degree homicide (mitigating circumstance)?

Criminalizing the procedure has a long ways to go, IMO, decreasing the number of abortions is the most practical short term plan, one that shouldn’t be overlooked.

 

[Snerticus]

Abortion was illegal in this country and was still performed quite regularly. That isn’t an argument in favor of keeping it legal, it is just a statistical fact. There was a time when people traveled to states where it was legal if they were living where it was illegal. I’d imagine people would drive to Canada for the procedure (again, not an argument to keep it legal).

Yes, I am aware of that fact and I hoped to have alluded to that in my post, however, even if abortion had continued to be illegal, there would still not have been so great a number of them as today, simply because a percentage of the people would not want to bother because it is illegal. The government today is giving it’s consent, thus making it a “no-brainer” for people to acquire one.

As far as the argument that you wouldn’t decriminalize murder, theft, etc…that’s just not an argument when the crowd that needs to hear your voice doesn’t believe that an abortion is murder.

Agreed, but the OP in this thread does believe it’s murder so the argument is valid here.

The question is, will society ever be “ok” with charging a woman and her doctor with first degree murder for an abortion? Would the cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother make it something less than 1st degree homicide (mitigating circumstance)?

I don’t think so. Because the longer we allow abortion to remain legal, the more people are going to think it’s a “right” (taken either way) and not a wrong. We all know that after someone has been allowed to do something they shouldn’t for a long time, and then all of a suddent starts to get reprimanded for doing it, they get angry. Sometimes real angry. Sometimes violently angry.

Criminalizing the procedure has a long ways to go, IMO, decreasing the number of abortions is the most practical short term plan, one that shouldn’t be overlooked.

Agreed, but done in the proper context. If we aim at just decreasing the abortion rate in and of itself, then it’s not a good thing. The statistics might flatline forever. But if we take it in steps and consider the first to be decreasing the rate, it’s okay, because then we have a step 2 part of the plan, whcih is to keep decreasing it until society realizes it’s plain cold murder and not exterminating something as a pest.