Abortion

[limerick]

That is part of my point, if a catholic woman is having an abortion, it is probably because of her following the birth control pill ban the Church has. So which is more sinful? Her taking birth control in the first place and never having an abortion, or not taking them to adhere to Catholic law and getting pregnant and having an abortion. I think the latter. Actually Limerick, I have no doubt in my mind that Catholic women are having abortions. If they don’t follow the Church’s teaching on abortion, why do they follow the birth control teachings???

**
Catholic women have abortions for the same reasons non-Catholic women have them:

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html**

A doubtful young Catholic woman to begin with, I got pregnant because I was not fully aware of the facts of reproduction. This was a pregnancy and an abortion that could have been prevented. Ignorance is a big part of the abortion problem. The search for security, what we believe is love, and even the white picket fence all contribute to the abortion problem because young men and women are not prepared for married life. How could they be, in their overexposure to a strong emphasis on non-commitment?

If anyone of reproductive age intends to be or become sexually active they need to take it upon themselves to get the facts about how their bodies work, how they are influenced by Madison Avenue with regard to relationships, how every act they enter into will affect each next act.

Practicing Catholics believe in Openness to Life, sex in marriage only, monogamy, mental and emotional and physical and spiritual fidelity. From what I know, however, and from my own experience, there is little emphasis on sexuality in the Catholic home. There may be cursory discussions, but I would guess they are abstinence-only oriented. Catholics will not budge on pre-marital sex, artificial birth control or abortion.

As far as the degree of sin is concerned, I would think the use of artificial birth control is less sinful than abortion, but what do I know? I was on ABC for 30 years as a result of having had an abortion and not wanting to repeat it.

Is it me, or is it hot in here?

Limerick

 

[distracted]

haven’t read all posts… not even close…

but wondering how each of you feels about Tiller and waht happened to him…

i say it is (in God’s opinion) just “unaurhorized capital punishment”

and/or diesturbing the peace… &/or

totally justifiable homicide…

Of course in the eyes of humans, its a different story…

 

[limerick]

YES!!! People forget that with sex, comes responsibility! If it is not too personal, can I ask how old you were when you had your abortion. I am fiercely pro-life, but I’m not judging you like some of the others have. I had a friend, who had one at 14, because of her age. Another of my friends was going to have one at around 16, but (thankfully) it was a false alarm.

**I was 19; I’m now 57.

L**

 

[limerick]

I strongly believe they need to budge on artificial birth control.

**
I agree. But they won’t.

L**

 

[limerick]

haven’t read all posts… not even close…

but wondering how each of you feels about Tiller and waht happened to him…

i say it is (in God’s opinion) just “unaurhorized capital punishment”

and/or diesturbing the peace… &/or

totally justifiable homicide…

Of course in the eyes of humans, its a different story…

**The subject of Dr. Tiller’s murder has been addressed on other threads on Catholic Answers Forum. You are certainly encouraged to peruse them to get a glimpse of the range of feelings and thoughts brought on by this event. If we go into it here we’ll be derailing this thread and then we’ll have some problems. Please check out Dr. Tiller’s death with the “Search” function at the top of the page.

Limerick**

 

[limerick]

broken mental calculator?!

I mis-calcu-malated my age. I first said “18”, but realized that was inaccurate; I’d already turned 19.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

**
You call it baby and I call it fetus
Not gonna let old semantics beat us
You can’t feel ashamed of another’s disdain
Let’s call the whole thing off.

Limerick**

You’re a gifted poet
Who’s happy to show it
You do it with class
Not a hint of crass
Though you might have blamed the other’s disdain
You instead rose above that heartless game
And with all that’s been leveled in this heavy exchange
A spark of the holy is what will remain… Limerick is her name.

 

[fix]

I read through about 12 pages of posts before I got tired. Not once in the posts I read did anyone mention birth control. In my mind birth control=no abortion. I know birth control is against catholic teachings, but I do not see it as abortion. Any of you who are catholic, do you really actually know the biblical reason it is not allowed??? The story of Onan, is the reason we are not allowed to use birth control even in life or death situations!
Genesis 38:7-10: “Er, Judith’s firstborn, was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death. Then Judith said to Onan, ‘Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.” scborromeo.org/glad/c4.htm
I wonder, what a priest would do if a man came to him and asked if he could have sex with his sister in law since his brother died without giving her children? In my mind you have to follow it all or not at all. People of the Jewish faith, follow this also, but they allow birth control pills, they only disapprove of anything that wastes the seed, as in condoms. I think they have it right.
You talk about options for pregnant women to keep them from having abortions, if they were on birth control, odds are they would have never gotten pregnant in the first place. I know you say the problem is premarital sex, you seem to forget not everyone is catholic (or religious) and worrying about sin. You can’t turn everyone catholic, you have to either promote abortion or promote birth control. Promoting abstinence will not work. I thought we obey Jesus’ teachings, and He never said to go forth and multiply.

You assertions are wrong mostly because they are based on false premises. Contraception is wrong because it violates the natural moral law. The Church can no more eliminate that law then She can claim it is licit to murder.

These natural laws are not plastic that we mold and reconfigure to fit our disordered desires. The ends never justify the means. The problem, as usual, seems to be we cannot accept the truth of an objective moral order.

 

[WillieWonka]

You assertions are wrong mostly because they are based on false premises. Contraception is wrong because it violates the natural moral law. The Church can no more eliminate that law then She can claim it is licit to murder.

These natural laws are not plastic that we mold and reconfigure to fit our disordered desires. The ends never justify the means. The problem, as usual, seems to be we cannot accept the truth of an objective moral order.

For discussion purposes lets accept 1) Natural moral law exists, 2) Objective natural order exists, and 3) The Church can’t modify either.

I would presume the Church could modify its understanding of that natural moral law and the objective moral order without modifying either. If natural law and objective moral order exist, then they exist regardless of the Church’s interpretation of them.

 

[fix]

For discussion purposes lets accept 1) Natural moral law exists, 2) Objective natural order exists, and 3) The Church can’t modify either.

I would presume the Church could modify its understanding of that natural moral law and the objective moral order without modifying either. If natural law and objective moral order exist, then they exist regardless of the Church’s interpretation of them.

She is an infallible teacher. Her understanding can grow deeper, but never contradict what She has taught.

 

[WillieWonka]

She is an infallible teacher. Her understanding can grow deeper, but never contradict what She has taught.

How do you know the Church is an infallible teacher?

 

[jake23]

**Sorry, jake, but you are the fool if you think the fetus is the sole responsibility of the mother.

I used disdain to mean “scornfulness”, as in I scorn(ed) your attitude. You said you were “ashamed of people like [me]”. Then feel shame for yourself, brother. You take the scorn cake.

Limerick**

Look up the definanition of disdain! It is the mothers responsability for the baby while in the womb as it is them mans responasbility to assist the mother and then both after the both. Yes the mother is the protector of the life in the womb, the man can only help and support the mother until the child is born. Do not call me brother! you are not a christian if you have killed a helpless human being in your womb and have not repented, so no I am not your brother! not repenting shows even more injustice to your babies that you did not protect! You choose to be blind to avoid responsable guilt! My stomach cannot and heart and cannot take listening to this vile talk anymore! good luck with your salvation!

 

[distracted]

I strongly believe they need to budge on artificial birth control.

I strongly DO NOT believe they need to budge on artificial birth control

 

[distracted]

**The subject of Dr. Tiller’s murder has been addressed on other threads on Catholic Answers Forum. You are certainly encouraged to peruse them to get a glimpse of the range of feelings and thoughts brought on by this event. If we go into it here we’ll be derailing this thread and then we’ll have some problems. Please check out Dr. Tiller’s death with the “Search” function at the top of the page.

Limerick**

i’d say abortion and an abortionist’s death are related…

 

[distracted]

How do you know the Church is an infallible teacher?

how does anyone know anything absolutely?

you have to take some things on faith…

but there are tangible valid reasons to believe in the infallibility of the pope…

Mt 16:18…

the human need for infallibility in matters that pertain to their eternal destinies…

history proves the Church right on all its official teachings…

etc, etc…

 

[distracted]

You are forgetting that most abortions are by non-Catholics, so why is the Church not saying it is ok for them to use birth control. They are not subject to the Church’s laws.

All are subject to God’s laws… If abortion is wrong for a Catholic it is wrong for everyone… same w/ birth control…

just because some dont choose to listen (even Catholics… ) doesn’t change the fact that… god doesn’t change…

 

[allhers]

Negative Effects of the Pill
Hormonal contraceptives have severe side effects: Though the mainstream media and feminist groups typically present hormonal contraceptives as a boon for women, they overlook the serious side effects reported in mainstream scientific literature. PLTP_Negative_Effects_of_the_Pill.pdf

Click on this link and you can down load the file and then read it. (Negative Effects of the Pill is listed about halfway down the page here:
hli.org/index.php/component/content/248?task=view

Also, how the pill kills and the history and side effects of it here.
thepillkills.org/

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Look up the definanition of disdain! It is the mothers responsability for the baby while in the womb as it is them mans responasbility to assist the mother and then both after the both. Yes the mother is the protector of the life in the womb, the man can only help and support the mother until the child is born. Do not call me brother! you are not a christian if you have killed a helpless human being in your womb and have not repented, so no I am not your brother! not repenting shows even more injustice to your babies that you did not protect! You choose to be blind to avoid responsable guilt! My stomach cannot and heart and cannot take listening to this vile talk anymore! good luck with your salvation!

Jake,
You cannot be a brother,in the** Christian** sense, to any of us, when you are being “un-Christ-like”. You should really make a** good **self-examination before you persist in your cruel attacks on our sister, Limerick.
Jesus is merciful and compassionate, suffering everything that we suffer. Be an imitator of the All-Holy Savior if you wish to have mercy shown to you.

 

[jake23]

Jake,
You cannot be a brother,in the** Christian** sense, to any of us, when you are being “un-Christ-like”. You should really make a** good **self-examination before you persist in your cruel attacks on our sister, Limerick.
Jesus is merciful and compassionate, suffering everything that we suffer. Be an imitator of the All-Holy Savior if you wish to have mercy shown to you.

IS this Nancy Pelosi? they are not attacks but defensive words for the helpless unborn. Jesus is merciful and compassionate for those who repent! You cannot be catholic and pro-choice!

 

[allhers]

Explain how birth control is anywhere near as bad as abortion? (I never said abortion wasn’t wrong, I am pro-life)

:
Just to answer this question for you:

The pill, Norplant, Depo-Provera, emergency contraception, the IUD - all of these chemical
contraceptives have three basic modes of operation:

They can act to suppress ovulation (the release of an egg from the ovary). However, women
can and do experience breakthrough ovulation, meaning that an egg is released and available
to be fertilized.

They can cause the cervical mucus to thicken, making it difficult for the sperm to reach the
egg. It is possible, though, for the sperm to break through the mucus and to fertilize the
egg.

They can alter the lining of the uterus making it difficult, if not impossible, for the 7-9
day old developing baby to attach to the uterine lining, where it would receive the
nourishment necessary for further development. The baby would then be expelled from the body
during menstruation. This process is known as a chemical abortion and is why the pill is
referred to as an abortifacient.

source:
all.org/article.php?id=10217&search=abortifacient