Abortion

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WillieWonka said:
OK. If reason alone can discern NL, how do you know you have correctly discerned it? You said faith and reason were necessary. So is faith necessary if reason alone can know NL?
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Reason can discern there is a natural moral law.

Every single aspect and application may need reason perfected by faith to be fully understood.
 
beonthelevel said:
It is not a certainty.*** I am pro-life. But when any of my unmarried friends became sexually active, I always asked if they were on birth control.*** Telling them about abstinence does not work, they have minds of their own.** At least I know that if they are responsible,** they won’t be having an abortion (or any more). I have seen what happens when women are not responsible for their actions,** I hate to think of the number of abortions that would be occurring if there were no BC.** .
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(bolds mine)

Dear friend,
Pope Paul VI wrote a very prophetic encyclical in the 60’s called “Humanae Vitae-On Human Life”. In his writing he predicted that the use of artificial birth control would lead to an increase in** promiscuity and procured abortion. The statistics are in-the encyclical was a prophesy. Evil only begets evil. Our greatest protection and refuge in this world is Holy Mother Church**. God, in His infinite Wisdom, bestowed this** great gift** on His** beloved** children for our good, and those** who love God** and** each other**,should desire the greatest good for one another!
Since you care for your friends, don’t presume on their* weakness* by leading them down a road of deeper darkness, instead,* pray and offer sacrifices* for them as you share the Good News of salvation by the way you live your life.
Our witness of love springs from the joy we experience in knowing the** loving providence **and mercy of God.
And if your"friends" bring you down a wrong path, pray for new ones!🙂 God bless you.
 
fix said:
Reason can discern there is a natural moral law.

Every single aspect and application may need reason perfected by faith to be fully understood.
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It may need faith? That means it doesn’t need faith, so NL can be correctly discerned without faith.
 
WillieWonka said:
Does belief that Jesus is God demand faith?
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Hey Willie, We are having a lot of fun on the “questions only” thread in the Water Cooler section. Maybe you’d like to join us there for all of your wonderment. 🙂

Until then…“keep asking…seeking…knocking”…( but be sure and open the door and let Him in…)😉
 
WillieWonka said:
It may need faith? That means it doesn’t need faith, so NL can be correctly discerned without faith.
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I could have been more clear.

Perhaps this will help:

[1960](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1960.htm’)😉 The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known "by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error."12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.
 
fix said:
I could have been more clear.

Perhaps this will help:

[1960](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1960.htm’)😉 The precepts of natural law are not perceived by everyone clearly and immediately. In the present situation sinful man needs grace and revelation so moral and religious truths may be known "by everyone with facility, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error."12 The natural law provides revealed law and grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit.
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OK. So that pretty clearly says grace and revelation are needed to correctly discern NL. So, is faith needed for grace and revelation?
 
beonthelevel said:
:rotfl:
… I am pro-life. But when any of my unmarried friends became sexually active, I always asked if they were on birth control. Telling them about abstinence does not work, they have minds of their own. At least I know that if they are responsible, they won’t be having an abortion (or any more). I have seen what happens when women are not responsible for their actions, I hate to think of the number of abortions that would be occurring if there were no BC. You have a quote for your signature, that says you can’t be pro-choice and Catholic. It may not be right, but yes you can. Agreeing with abortion does not undo your baptism.
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You are a perfect example of what I was talking about when I told another poster that many who claim to be Catholics were ignorant too. Thank you for proving my point.😛
 
beonthelevel said:
…You fail to see that by not encouraging BC, you are causing more abortions to occur.
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Further proof. Your ignorance is beyond belief, its also sick and sad how you have fallen for the evil one’s lies and promote them to your friends. With a friend like you, they certainly don’t need anymore enemies.

Go and learn the truth. You have been given the links, read them and quit showing everyone how sadly ignorant you really are.
 
fix said:
Do you need faith to know rape is wrong?
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I’m looking for the Cathlic perspective. I don’t know what it is. You earlier said we needed the Church to correctly discern NL. Now it seems you are moving in the other direction. Hence, I ask if faith is necessary.
 
beonthelevel said:
:rotfl:
Allhers …You fail to see that by not encouraging BC, you are causing more abortions to occur.
.
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So, beonthelevel, would you encourage artificial birth control if they said no they weren’t
on any birth control, or did you just want ME to encourage it?? 🤷
 
beonthelevel said:
How sad you resort to name calling, which is very un-biblical.

I see a girl who has no problem having abortions, and see the need for her to be on birth control. You would not want her to be on birth control, like it or not that girl will probably end up having another abortion. (**You are ignorant **if you do not at least acknowledge that fact.)…

…You are a very angry person Allhers…
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So, if you think its unbiblical and sad, why did you say the same to me?

There is no anger in me. I am very realistic, thank you.

Perhaps you ought to read your own prior posts before posting in the future.😃
 
beonthelevel said:
:rotfl:
I am not going to answer anymore posts, you show little understanding, and see the world through rose colored glasses. I’d be better off trying to reason with a donkey :banghead:
I hate to think of the number of abortions that would be occurring if there were no BC.
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Perhaps now would be a good time for you to go look for that donkey.

😛
 
I hate to think of the number of abortions that would be occurring if there were no BC.
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I already hate to think of the number of abortions that occur every day. And BC is no lifesaver in that regard.
 
Seriously now beonthelevel, it is up to you to always proclaim that truth, in season and out of season as we say. No matter what, or who you are talking to. It is then up to THEM if they accept that truth or not. You have done your job well when you speak the truth, we don’t ever need to make exceptions for anyone. Just speak the truth quietly and clearly.

Here is a good quote from Benjamin Franklin:
Sin is not hurtful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is hurtful.

Maybe some of your unChristian friends will like that and understand it.

I’m not trying to say Ben Franklin was an unbeliever, I truly have no idea, I was just looking up some famous quotes of pasts presidents once and found that - wasn’t he the one that chopped down the cherry tree and said “I cannot tell a lie”!? 🤷
 
Originally Posted by beonthelevel
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I am not going to answer anymore posts, you show little understanding, and see the world through rose colored glasses. I’d be better off trying to reason with a donkey
**I hate to think of the number of abortions that would be occurring if there were no BC. **
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The number would be astronomical in comparison to the current number.
 
allhers said:
Seriously now beonthelevel, it is up to you to always proclaim that truth, in season and out of season as we say. No matter what, or who you are talking to. It is then up to THEM if they accept that truth or not. You have done your job well when you speak the truth, we don’t ever need to make exceptions for anyone. Just speak the truth quietly and clearly.

Here is a good quote from Benjamin Franklin:
Sin is not hurtful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is hurtful.

Maybe some of your unChristian friends will like that and understand it.

I’m not trying to say Ben Franklin was an unbeliever, I truly have no idea, I was just looking up some famous quotes of pasts presidents once and found that - wasn’t he the one that chopped down the cherry tree and said “I cannot tell a lie”!? 🤷
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Thank you, allhers, for sharing the Truth. The ball is not in your hands anymore, as the saying goes. God will bless you for your efforts 🙂
 
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