Abortion

[lil_flower_luv]

The number would be astronomical in comparison to the current number.

That does not make BC morally good. “What’s popular is not always right and what’s right is not always popular.”

 

[Tram_Is_the_Way]

I’m not trying to say Ben Franklin was an unbeliever, I truly have no idea, I was just looking up some famous quotes of pasts presidents once and found that - wasn’t he the one that chopped down the cherry tree and said “I cannot tell a lie”!?

No George Washington cut down the cherry tree. Ben Franklin was a Mason. Nuff Said.

 

[Tram_Is_the_Way]

That does not make BC morally good. “What’s popular is not always right and what’s right is not always popular.”

90% of polled Catholics believe BC is okay, Just look at the number of children that ALL couples in your own church have.

The point is moot.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

90% of polled Catholics believe BC is okay, Just look at the number of children that ALL couples in your own church have.

The point is moot.

But have you read about what the vatican has to say about it?

ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/FLAVIN.HTM

 

[allhers]

90% of polled Catholics believe BC is okay, Just look at the number of children that ALL couples in your own church have.

The point is moot.

NEW HAVEN, July 10, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The American people continue to move to the
pro-life perspective on abortion according to the latest Moral Compass polling by the
Knights of Columbus and Marist Institute.

The poll mirrored findings of other recent surveys, showing that more Americans identify as
pro-life than as pro-choice (an 11% shift from October), and that the vast majority of
Americans favor restricting abortion.

Among the key findings:

• 86% of Americans would significantly restrict abortion.
• 60% of Americans would limit abortion to cases of rape, incest or the life of a mother – or not allow it at all.
• 53% of Americans believe abortion does more harm than good to a woman in the long term.
• 79% of Americans support conscience exemptions on abortion for health care workers. This includes 64% of those who identify as strongly pro-choice.
• 69% of Americans think that it is appropriate for religious leaders to speak out on abortion.
• 59% say religious leaders have a key role to play in the abortion debate.

Additionally…

more here:
lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jul/09071301.html

Where is your source?

 

[allhers]

The number would be astronomical in comparison to the current number.

Actually the number is probably astromonmical along with the one’s that we know about, for those who have had a spontanous abortion because of ABC is probably vastly unknown and I believe we only know the number of abortions which are reported, not all that are done unreported and those because of ABC and by other means.

Its commonly known as the new holocaust.

It is truly evil. Prayer and fasting much be undertaken to drive it from our midst.

 

[allhers]

Thank you, allhers, for sharing the Truth. The ball is not in your hands anymore, as the saying goes. God will bless you for your efforts

…T/Y and you too!

Talk about swimming against the tide, huh?

 

[limerick]

By the power of prayer and letting the Holy Spirit direct our lives, nothing is impossible with God.

The simplest method of NFP is calendar rhythm. Couples need to determine the length of the longest and shortest menstrual cycles over the past 12 months. NFP instructors can quickly teach this method to country women in developing nations, even if they cannot read, because the concepts are very easy to explain.

hli.org/index.php/component/content/article/40-facts-of-life/589-facts-of-life-chapter-22-natural-family-planning-nfp-can-be-used-for-contraceptive-motives

**And are they going to keep angry, deprived lovers and husbands in shackles every month until those precious days arrive when sex may not result in conception? Who is going to train the men?

Limerick**

 

[lil_flower_luv]

…T/Y and you too!

Talk about swimming against the tide, huh?

*I *would say…

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

**And are they going to keep angry, deprived lovers and husbands in shackles every month until those precious days arrive when sex may not result in conception? Who is going to train the men?

Limerick**

I would think that if a man also did not want pregnancy, he could love and respect his wife enough to wait.

 

[allhers]

**And are they going to keep angry, deprived lovers and husbands in shackles every month until those precious days arrive when sex may not result in conception? Who is going to train the men?

Limerick**

Most, NFP is taught to both men and women together. In the case we were referring to earlier about teaching the women, I would imagine that if she explained it to her husband he’d be all for it. Afterall, they are not incapable of understanding. It’s really only like a week to nine days per month that they do not have intercourse, I think any man can accept that. If not, they would probably be the exceptions that we always have.

 

[allhers]

… I have however, talked someone out of an intended “one night stand”. In which she planned on using the morning after pill, after their encounter.,

Its good that you talked some one out of that, I just read this about it:

The assistant director for policy and communications at the bishops’ Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities, Deirdre McQuade, stated that the administration’s “court-driven decision to make Plan B available without a prescription” to minors “flies in the face of common sense.”

The statement, released Thursday by the bishops’ conference, continued: “Levonorgestrel is a powerful drug, taken in two doses over a 12-hour period. It is 40 times more potent than comparable progestin-only birth control pills – Ovrette – for which a prescription is required.”

McQuade asserted that “wider access to Plan B could endanger the lives of newly-conceived children, and will put minors at risk for unnecessary side effects, undermine parental rights, and contribute to higher STD rates.”

A previous article from the pro-life secretariat noted that possible side effects include: vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, diarrhea, dizziness, breast
pain, headache, and menstrual changes." It also reported a risk of ectopic pregnancy up to five times greater than normal.

zenit.org/article-25723?l=english

 

[limerick]

“I’m not trying to say Ben Franklin was an unbeliever, I truly have no idea, I was just looking up some famous quotes of pasts presidents once and found that - wasn’t he the one that chopped down the cherry tree and said “I cannot tell a lie”!? ”
**
Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
American public official, writer, scientist, and printer who played a major part in the American Revolution.

“The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your Candle.”**
– Benjamin Franklin, the incompatibility of faith and reason, Poor Richard’s Almanack (1758)

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”
– Benjamin Franklin, quoted from Victor J Stenger, “Has Science Found God?” (2001)

“Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so; It is not so. It is so; it is not so.”
– Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanack, 1743

 

[limerick]

Most, NFP is taught to both men and women together. In the case we were referring to earlier about teaching the women, I would imagine that if she explained it to her husband he’d be all for it. Afterall, they are not incapable of understanding. It’s really only like a week to nine days per month that they do not have intercourse, I think any man can accept that. If not, they would probably be the exceptions that we always have.

**You and I live on opposite sides of the world!

Limerick**

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

. Don’t judge me, you have no idea how I live my life, and you have not heard every conversation I have had with my friends.

I felt that I was encouraging you to live your faith and witness to your friends. If you felt judged because I promoted the Catholic position-and you disagree with that-I cannot retract what I was expressing out of love and concern for you. But I do pray that you would be open to the Truth that you are seeking with a sincere heart…I’m confident that Our dearest Lady, to whom you profess such loving devotion, will intercede for this special intention.
Remember always, that you are loved, cherished and precious in God’s eyes.

 

[elts1956]

For discussion purposes lets accept 1) Natural moral law exists, 2) Objective natural order exists, and 3) The Church can’t modify either.

I would presume the Church could modify its understanding of that natural moral law and the objective moral order without modifying either. If natural law and objective moral order exist, then they exist regardless of the Church’s interpretation of them.

And all it takes is a "logical"mind to interpret them. This has nothing to do with faith, but laws of nature and objective moral order which lead to logical consequences, sometimes eventually, but still always, if they are disobeyed. So it was at the beginning and will be in the end.

 

[fix]

I’m looking for the Cathlic perspective. I don’t know what it is. You earlier said we needed the Church to correctly discern NL. Now it seems you are moving in the other direction. Hence, I ask if faith is necessary.

The quotes I gave explain it well. The NL can be known by reason. Every single aspect of NL may not be clear to each person so grace is needed in those particular circumstances.

 

[WillieWonka]

And all it takes is a "logical"mind to interpret them. This has nothing to do with faith, but laws of nature and objective moral order which lead to logical consequences, sometimes eventually, but still always, if they are disobeyed. So it was at the beginning and will be in the end.

That makes sense. In that case we don’t need the infallible Church to tell us what NL says.

 

[WillieWonka]

The quotes I gave explain it well. The NL can be known by reason. Every single aspect of NL may not be clear to each person so grace is needed in those particular circumstances.

So, back to my original question. How do we know we one has correctly discerned NL? How do we know which discernment is correct when two are in conflict? How do we know a given discernment is the product of grace? How do I know your discernment of NL is correct when you state it? How do you know it?

 

[allhers]

beonthelevel

Unless one pratices complete abstinence, eventually they will probably be faced with a
pregnancy.

Procreation, (no matter what man has done to try to prevent this, God, who
ordained Marriage between one man and one woman (as anyone can read in Genesis), did say, be fertile and multiply.) So, even with Natural Family Planning we are to remain open to life, as you know, and with NFP, they can also help couple’s who are trying to conceive, naturally.

You are talking about those who have never done anything to prevent conception and that
are activly having sex and are not using, or even sometimes are using some kind of artifical birth control, (no method is 100% and none can prevent the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases [STDs] 100% either, nor HIV/Aids, including the condom.) You, for the most part, are talking about those who openly defy God and act as though He doesn’t exist.

This site will help explain the above, it has a search engine. Search to your hearts
content.

hli.org

I have already posted links to many of the articles on that particular site, and on other
sites in both of these other threads on this forum (in addition to this thread that we are
currently on entitled):

Abortion
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=350575

I’ve also posted much information from that and other sites on these threads:

Anybody out there “pro-choice”?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=336298

Re: How to re-educate so that people will understand about abortion?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5444524#post5444524

Perhaps your friends would be better served if you kept poining out to them the disasterous, sickening, evil that such thinking and active undertaking promotes. Afterall, isn’t it obvious, to even the casual observer, that ever since artificial contraception and abortion have entered the picture in far greater numbers that even that hasn’t helped?
Instead, things have only gotton much worse.

People are still taking ABC and still getting pregnant. Some people are using abortion as a back up to birth control, isn’t the evil of that enough to make you say — NO MORE!!
Tell them the simple truth. Trying to help them by suggesting other evil ways to artifically try to NOT conceive is NOT helping anyone.

You may not do evil so that good can come of it.

We are not to cooperate with Satan and all his works,in any way, shape or form.

Sometimes artificial birth control doesn’t work the way it was intended to work, that is why, as you pointed out, the BC companies first said what they did. Sometimes an egg does get released anyway and when it gets fertilized a baby is conceived. Then that baby cannot implant and the baby gets flused out of the mother’s womb.

For you personally, I recommend this site:

It is called Children of God for life, they can help lead you to a Pro-life Doctor in your
area that can help you naturally with the problems you are having. It says on their site
that their list is updated frequently as new physicians sign on.

They also help find NFP instructors and ask that Doctors join their Pro-life Physician
network.

cogforlife.org

No, I do not advocate suggesting ABC to anyone, their are alternatives to taking it even
for medical reasons.

I happen to personally believe that taking ABC can not only prevent the child (whom you
call a fertilized egg) from implanting, it can and sometimes leads to the death of a woman
also.

This site will help explain that.

www.thepillkills.org