Abortion

[limerick]

Limerick, can I ask you a question? I think I remember reading a post where you said you had two miscarriages, was that you? If so, I have heard that sometimes having an abortion can make you more likely to miscarry the next time you get pregnant. What is your opinion on that? Do you think your abortion may have contributed to your miscarriages? If that wasn’t you, and I’m remembering wrong, just ignore this post.

**
The abortion was in June of 1971. The first miscarriage was in summer of 1978, I think, and the next the following year. Both miscarriages were embryos from the same father, who had some tremendous genetic problems.

My daughter was born in 1987.

I don’t feel that the abortion contributed to my miscarriages. I had a normal amount of bleeding and discharge after the procedure; I went for my follow-up within a few weeks; I did not have sexual contact with anyone during the recovery period recommended (as I remember it was six weeks).

Sometimes there is no reason that we can ever p(name removed by moderator)oint with certainty why pregnancies self-destruct. Maybe God decided I wasn’t a fit candidate for motherhood and he took the embryos back. I just don’t know.

Limerick**

 

[allhers]

I don’t see a problem with my taking birth control pills, as I am not having sex, if I were, that would be different. (but obviously I never saw it as an excuse to have sex, it is simply keeping me from developing cancer) Before I get married, I’ll have to find a new non-BC prescription. Thanks for the link about pro-life doctors, but I live in Canada. You may be right, you can’t stop a sin with a sin. That woman’s choices are hers alone, it is hard to reason with people like that. I know for me personally, I don’t think I would take BC if I were married, I don’t want to take the chance that it is abortive. My opinion has changed a lot, (maybe because of you not backing down ) I keep thinking of the possibility that new lives can be flushed out. Even if they are going to be aborted, they should be allowed to implant and grow. But I still think the calender based NFP method is unreliable :tsktsk:. I think the Basal body temperature method or Billings ovulation method, are more reliable. I think the point is you should not have sex unless you can accept the pregnancy, as nothing is fool proof.

For further information in Canada, contact:

Canada: Canadian Physicians For Life

PO Box 1289, Ottawa ON K0A 2Z0

Phone/Fax: (613) 728-LIFE (5433)

Email: info@physiciansforlife.ca

 

[allhers]

I don’t see a problem with my taking birth control pills, as I am not having sex, if I were, that would be different. (but obviously I never saw it as an excuse to have sex, it is simply keeping me from developing cancer) Before I get married, I’ll have to find a new non-BC prescription…

Please do read this site:
www.thepillkills.org

This page especially where it lists the side effects:
thepillkills.org/sideeffects.php

One of them is this:
Cancer (breast, uterine and vaginal)

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Sometimes there is no reason that we can ever p(name removed by moderator)oint with certainty why pregnancies self-destruct. Maybe God decided I wasn’t a** fit candidate for motherhood** and he took the embryos back. I just don’t know.

Limerick

That’s how* I felt* in 1986 when my second son, Laurence, was stillborn. He was full-term and weighed 10 pounds,1ounce.I struggled a lot emotionally before that, in dealing with our first son Dominic, who was very difficult-or maybe it was just me.
I went on to have another miscarriage after that, and I’d have at least two more over the course of twenty years.Each time I believed it was my own inadequacies as a mother-and that God knew it. I can still cry when I think about each one. But each one of them has a soul, and a name, and I pray that I will see them in heaven someday…my son Francis was born the same year as your daughter, Limerick. Weren’t they **healing **gifts to us?
I did go on to have seven more living children, after very difficult pregnancies due to my insulin-dependent diabetes(that I acquired with my first pregnancy) and I believe it was through those children that I lost, that I have been assisted through many difficulties through the years.
May all mothers take comfort in the vision of their precious little ones, awaiting their embrace in the hereafter.:grouphug:

 

[fix]

So, back to my original question. How do we know we one has correctly discerned NL? How do we know which discernment is correct when two are in conflict? How do we know a given discernment is the product of grace? How do I know your discernment of NL is correct when you state it? How do you know it?

Right reason.

How do you know rape is wrong?

 

[traillius]

Wow, the seed I planted 30 pages ago has certainly grown into quite a large tree. Praise God that this is being discussed, hopefully it will produce some good fruit.
( less abortions, for starters…)

 

[WillieWonka]

Right reason.

How do you know rape is wrong?

What is right reason, and how does it differ from reason? What criteria does right reason look for in determining if an opinion on NL is correct? What dos right reason tell us are the characteristics of a correct discernment of NL?

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

What is right reason, and how does it differ from reason? What criteria does right reason look for in determining if an opinion on NL is correct? What dos right reason tell us are the characteristics of a correct discernment of NL?

Does the person who answers correctly to all of your questions get the** golden ticket** and a tour of the chocolate factory? (just messin’ witcha)…but isn’t that, perhaps, what you might be up to with fix?
You could start another* thread on the role of *“right reason and the natural law”…just a suggestion Bless you!

 

[distracted]

Once people “dig in their heals” in defiance against one Church teaching, the path of disobedience only** widens** from there. There are abortifacient birth control methods(not just pills, either) and it’s a very*** slippery slope*** from there to surgical abortion, whether you choose to believe it or not.
You suggested that most Catholics are using birth control. I seriously doubt that, but over half of U.S. Catholics voted for the most militant pro-abortion president in history.

so “they” tell us… who is this “they”?? and where did they get this statistic??

is it really so? Who knows? If they polled people on their wya out of daily Mass, they would get a different statistic… probably…

in any case, Jesus said there are few who find the narrow way to Heaven… so maybe it shouldn’t surprise me or anyone else that so many “Catholics” voted for BHO.

not too much surprises me anymore…

those who support abortion are NOT Catholic… There is no such thing as pro-abort Catholics…

i say they are excommunicated… becasue voting for that guy is a vote for abortion… To promote abortion is an ex-communicatable offense…

 

[lil_flower_luv]

so “they” tell us… who is this “they”?? and where did they get this statistic??

is it really so? Who knows? If they polled people on their wya out of daily Mass, they would get a different statistic… probably…

in any case, Jesus said there are few who find the narrow way to Heaven… so maybe it shouldn’t surprise me or anyone else that so many “Catholics” voted for BHO.

not too much surprises me anymore…

those who support abortion are NOT Catholic… There is no such thing as pro-abort Catholics…

i say they are excommunicated… becasue voting for that guy is a vote for abortion… To promote abortion is an ex-communicatable offense…

I think its really sad that so many believe BC is okay. It is not okay. People (especially those who call themselves Catholics) need to read up on what the Vatican has to say about it. If I said it once, I’ll say it again, we need TRUE Catholics today. 100%. All or Nothing. And we need them especially today in our culture of death.

My :twocents:

 

[fix]

What is right reason, and how does it differ from reason? What criteria does right reason look for in determining if an opinion on NL is correct? What dos right reason tell us are the characteristics of a correct discernment of NL?

Start a new thread.

**1956 **The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties: For there is a true law: right reason. It is in conformity with nature, is diffused among all men, and is immutable and eternal; its orders summon to duty; its prohibitions turn away from offense . . . . To replace it with a contrary law is a sacrilege; failure to apply even one of its provisions is forbidden; no one can abrogate it entirely.

 

[WillieWonka]

Start a new thread.

**1956 **The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties: For there is a true law: right reason. It is in conformity with nature, is diffused among all men, and is immutable and eternal; its orders summon to duty; its prohibitions turn away from offense . . . . To replace it with a contrary law is a sacrilege; failure to apply even one of its provisions is forbidden; no one can abrogate it entirely.

OK. In that case we don’t need the Church for NL discernment, don’t need faith, and don’t need grace. We can do it with reason. And we are still left with the question of how we know the discernment is correct.

 

[fix]

OK. In that case we don’t need the Church for NL discernment, don’t need faith, and don’t need grace. We can do it with reason. And we are still left with the question of how we know the discernment is correct.

Please start a new thread as I have answered all these questions before and you tend to go in circles.

 

[WillieWonka]

Please start a new thread as I have answered all these questions before and you tend to go in circles.

Actually, your answers are contradictory. First you said the Church was necessary to discern if one knew NL was correctly discerned. Now you say right reason is necessary. It’s OK if you don’t know. I sure don’t know.

 

[fix]

Actually, your answers are contradictory. First you said the Church was necessary to discern if one knew NL was correctly discerned. Now you say right reason is necessary. It’s OK if you don’t know. I sure don’t know.

I was not contradictory. I gave the explanations. You just do not like them.

 

[WillieWonka]

I was not contradictory. I gave the explanations. You just do not like them.

Is the Church necessary to determine if one has a correct discernment of NL?

 

[fix]

Is the Church necessary to determine if one has a correct discernment of NL?

Start a new thread and I will go there.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Start a new thread and I will go there.

:yeah_me::clapping: Nicely done!

 

[Anne_Carmel]

Participants are strongly reminded that charity is essential to our discussions here.

If you wish to review the subject, please see Charity for specifics, or CAF rules for an overview, both of which are located in the Rules of the Road sub-forum

 

[limerick]

Start a new thread.

**1956 **The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties: For there is a true law: right reason. It is in conformity with nature, is diffused among all men, and is immutable and eternal; its orders summon to duty; its prohibitions turn away from offense . . . . To replace it with a contrary law is a sacrilege; failure to apply even one of its provisions is forbidden; no one can abrogate it entirely.

**So you’re saying that there is no such thing as mental illness? A sociopath is just a maladjusted guy who’s had a bad day?

Limerick**