Abortion

[RoncalliM]

I personally would be fascinated to read a study with an experiment group and control group of women who got pregnant at about the same time and who had the same socio-economics status, ect.

The experimental group all had abortions.
The control group all had live births.

The study would be longitudinal and track economic well-being, emotional health, relationship status, all these indicators of well being to see what effects this choice may have. There would be many, many confounding variables but it would nevertheless be a good read.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Thank you, but I still need help. Can anyone tell me what you can actually say when someone says that it is not right to foce your beliefs on a woman?

This is an easy one.

Ask him this, “Just to clarify, are you trying to convince me it’s wrong for one person to force his beliefs upon another person?”

He will of course answer yes.

Then you say, “In that case, don’t you think you should stop doing it?”

He’ll probably say, “What?”

“Well, you’re trying to force upon me the belief that we should not force our beliefs upon another person.”

Moral relativists would be amusing if they weren’t so dangerous. But notice your friend appealed to a standard while at the same time telling you not to appeal to a standard.

Here’s an excellent talk about that very subject, one definitely worth giving a listen:

catholicaudio.blogspot.com/search/label/SPEAKER%3A%20Pat%20Madrid

 

[Art321]

This is an easy one.

Ask him this, “Just to clarify, are you trying to convince me it’s wrong for one person to force his beliefs upon another person?”

He will of course answer yes.

Then you say, “In that case, don’t you think you should stop doing it?”

He’ll probably say, “What?”

“Well, you’re trying to force upon me the belief that we should not force our beliefs upon another person.”

Moral relativists would be amusing if they weren’t so dangerous. But notice your friend appealed to a standard while at the same time telling you not to appeal to a standard.

Here’s an excellent talk about that very subject, one definitely worth giving a listen:

catholicaudio.blogspot.com/search/label/SPEAKER%3A%20Pat%20Madrid

Thank you, this is awesome.

Thank you once again,

Art321

 

[catholiccolleen]

I know that in my high school I have troubles even talking to people about this subject because they are so close minded. When I try to debate them about abortion, and bring up the Catholic faith, they just totally dismiss me. I know how you feel, and I think that in some situations, you can’t convince someone that its bad. Just pray for those people, and when you talk to them about it, try to be as passionate and enrages by the idea to get them to listen.

“The happiness you desire. the happiness you have a right to enjoy; has a name and a face. It is Jesus of Nazareth.” -Pope Benedict XVI

 

[JohnT58]

I find it very hard to reason with a pro-abortionist. Their minds seem more closed to opposite points of view. While I can sympathise with all of the situations that they come up with to support their viewpoint, rape incest…etc, there is no other crime that would warrent the execution of a totally innocent person for the crimes of another. In no other area are children held accountable for the sins of the father.
In any case, as I see it, it boils down to one issue really. Por-abortionists do not view the unborn child, or embryo, or fetus, or whatever they choose to label the person in his/her mothers womb, as human. If they viewed them as human, they would be protected by the same laws against premeditated murder as any other person in society.
Now, the only problem is, the embryo,fetus,baby is obviously human, and no scientist would dispute it. Pro-abortionists, if pushed on it, couldn’t reasonably argue that it isn’t human either.
They will say its only a bunch of cells, but that is all our bodies are, including those of the abortionists, a bunch of cells, albeit a bigger bunch. Guess might is right in their view.
Don’t get drawn into the ‘what if’ scenarios of moral relativists. We do not legislate for the extreme in any other area. We legislate for what is good for the majority. But I wouldn’t trust legislators anyway, even ‘catholic’ ones.
I’m starting to go off into a rant, so I’ll stop, but always bring the argument back to its simplest terms, is the baby human? Can we kill innocent humans? That need not be a religous viewpoint or argument, they won’t listen to an argument based on religion anyway.

 

[elts1956]

Thank you for these links to the websites but do you know where I can find a website that defends prolife but without mentioning anything about the faith. Those that are prochoice won’t listen to anything if I happen to mention God.

Thank you and God bless,

Art321

Try www.nationalrighttolife.org

 

[djeter]

Thank you for these links to the websites but do you know where I can find a website that defends prolife but without mentioning anything about the faith. Those that are prochoice won’t listen to anything if I happen to mention God.

Thank you and God bless,

Art321

That is precisely what Professor George does.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

Please, do not freak out at me; I do not support abortion in any way. However, I would like to ask if any of you have ever thought about any of the floowing things. I believe there is no excuse for taking the life of another person, for any reason. Now that I have made that clear, here are some things I would like to say, things I hear others say as well:

• If abortion was to become illegal once again, the number of abortions done anually would very likely increase by quite a lot. They would be done by un-experienced people, and the chances of the mother dying as well as the baby are much greater.
• God gives everyone of us freedom. We are completley free to choose whether we want to follow his word, and where to follow what he calls us to be in life. We can also choose to completley ignore everything he trys to tell us. I think that giving a woman the right to choose to have an abortion if she really feels it is the right thing for her to do, then let her. If she wants it bad enough, she will not let any law stand in her way from having one anyway. Also, it will be between God and that woman in the end; not between the government, God, and the woman. She was given a choice by the government, but she followed through with what she waas allowed to do; so it is her fault.
  Before anyone is to go through with an abortion, I believe they should go through some classses or a church to be educated on the subject; because it is not something to take lightly. Of course there are people out there who believe their is no life inside of a mother until many months along. We as Christians know that God has put that inside of a mother, and is already has a plan for it, so it is wrong for us to try and take away what God has planned.

Those are just some things to think about, not that they are right; but they can be thought through and discussed.

Well, I have a few problems with the logic in your arguments. First, if abortion were outlawed, at worst, the number of cases would remain the same, There is nothing indicating that increased numbers of women would want to go out and have abortions.

As for the free will argument, are you sure you’re pro-life? Rapists do not see the intrinsic human dignity of their victims. But what the hell, it’s the rapist’s decision, right? I mean, I would never personally rape a woman, but who am I to tell another man what he ought to do to another human? Now we christians know better, but why not leave rape up to each person to decide if it’s right for them?

The same argument holds for murder.

If these sound extreme, they aren’t. The only thing that sets abortion apart from them is that you can’t hear the victims’ screams. If women want abortions badly enough, yes they will resort to back alley abortions. Yes, they may die in the act of taking another human life. So you support making it perfectly safe to do so?

Murderers and rapists die in attempting their deeds. Some are crippled for life. Would you man the barricades with posters saying,

“Keep Rape Safe and Legal” and “Keep Murder Safe and Legal” ?

If abortion were to be made illegal once again, then there would be an increased risk of harm to the mother’s life. That risk isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It should give the woman pause to consider what she is doing.

In the interim, it is for us to educate people about the identity and status of the human embryo, so that abortion will be outlawed as a result of grass roots efforts growing from an enlightened view of human life at every stage. Then back alley abortions would be held to a minimum.

 

[mtnutt]

So, you really believe that is going to solve our abortion problem?

I do not believe that simply making abortion illegal will solve the problem, that’s why I said it is only a partial solution that needs to be supported with education and support. I do however believe it should be illegal if for no other reason than this - our laws are primarily put into place to protect the weak from the strong, and who is weaker than the unborn. If we did not have laws protecting the weak from the strong our country would be like Somalia right now.

What about all of those illegal abortions that are going to be done? I am nearly positive that more women will have them just because of the fact that they’re rebelling against the government.

I find this a little hard to believe, do you really think women will choose to break the law and undertake a medical procedure with serious risk of complications, including death, just to act out in rebellion to the government? That is not logical. Will there still be abortions if it is made illegal? Sure, but I certainly don’t see there being an increase, and certainly not out of a sense of rebellion.

Do you really believe that taking any form birth control is wrong?
I have actually had an argument about this from your side (saying that birth control is wrong). But, I don’t know if I actually believe that.
Sure, if you don’t want a baby you shouldn’t be having sex, I understand that.
—You are not harming any life by taking it. You are simply preventing a sperm and egg from meeting; so why is that wrong? I believe if the woman actually becomes pregnant that she should be totally willing, however, to give birth to that baby.

I have not really given the issue of birth control a lot of thought, nor I have a done much research on it. Consequently, I am taking the church’s position on this, mostly because I can’t refute it and it makes a certain amount of sense to me. What I have learned here on these forums is that birth control is part of the cultural mind set of “if it feels good do it, don’t worry about the consequences”. It is a part of our culture turning it’s back on God and the way he wants us to live. And, Oh by the way, some birth control pills seem to have abortifacient qualities as part of their birth control process. That alone makes one pause to consider the effects and reality of birth control.

 

[Christ_Imitator]

Very few of the arguments I posted do I actually agree with, they were simply things for people to at least think about before they just start saying “abortion is the devil.”
In order for us to make abortion illegal again, I believe it would take much more than simply saying “It goes against my Biblical morals.”
However, if we were able to make it illegal again, I would be very happy about that. Educating women on abortion would be very important. I think one of the biggest reasons many women are so pro-choice is that they strongly support women’s rights/feminists.

Personally, I can’t think of too many reasons to believe taking birth control would be a sin. I can think of one reason why people might be against it.
Birth control simply decreases the chance that you will get pregnant, correct? Maybe I don’t know much about it. So, if God really wants you to have a baby, he will give you one. As long as you are only having sex with the person you are married to, I don’t think you are sinning for taking the pill. I’ve heard of other reasons for girls to take it that have nothing to do with preventing the chance of getting pregnant.

 

[Art321]

Personally, I can’t think of too many reasons to believe taking birth control would be a sin. I can think of one reason why people might be against it.
Birth control simply decreases the chance that you will get pregnant, correct? Maybe I don’t know much about it. So, if God really wants you to have a baby, he will give you one. As long as you are only having sex with the person you are married to, I don’t think you are sinning for taking the pill. I’ve heard of other reasons for girls to take it that have nothing to do with preventing the chance of getting pregnant.

As I was debating abortion with a few people, they seemed to think and belief that one way to stop abortions was birth control. I just told them how it was wrong in the views of the church and all this was tied up to just keeping sex within marriage. And they just threw that idea out the window. I don’t know how to just telling them politely that sex is to remain in marriage for the purpose of creation. Alright now, all I can only do is just pray and hope that one day they will understand.

Anyway god bless,

Art321