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ThomasMT
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I tend to be quite cautious of claims made by users on CAF who hide their profiles. Nonetheless, I’ll bite… examples please?
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ThomasMT
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Mmhmmm, right.
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dndgamer
Guest
Am I overly attached to these things?
I am well familiar with these responses. I thank you for them. I only play these games on weekends because I do feel my age and my work is physical. By the time I get home, I’m a bit too tired to engage in playing games. So I believe that I am not addicted to these things. But again that is just my opinion.I hope I don’t sound condescending but practicing moderation with such entertainment could be a challenge
I don’t think this pursuit helps me be closer to God but I also think in moderation that it does not move you further away. I put them in the same category as watching sports, mowing the lawn, or jogging. It’s a type of recreation which we all engage in forms of, neutral at best or so I think. I really don’t want the discussion to revolve around the merits of each particular recreation. If it helps let me say that the characters I play in role playing games and the heroes in the novels that I read are righteous and fighting for the side of right.
I think If I understand correctly, the following point can so far be deduced based on all your responses.
- It is impossible to curse a downloadable item perhaps because there really is no object to hold the curse. Cursed items are rare.
If that is the case then, if the supernatural case has been eliminated, then perhaps the assertion is just an overzealous extension and the assertion really refers to the non supernatural possibility that engaging in these forms of recreation can somehow be sinful.
It is possible that the concerned party merely misunderstood Fr Chad but I must ask the question to be sure.
QUESTION 1. Is the idea that “popular media is cursed ( consecrated to the devil by satanists) because they have gruesome imagery or deal with fantasy and dungeons and dragons” being spread by authoritative sources in the Catholic church?
QUESTION 2: Is there anything in the act of playing a dungeons and dragons game or reading a fantasy novel that by definition is a sinful act? Such that by playing through a game or finishing a novel, you have just commited a sin because it just comes with it.
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dndgamer
Guest
POST TOO LONG, continued:
A priest has been consulted without my knowledge and he said when presented with one or some of the items: “It is not good”. He also gave a warning to be careful with what you allow to enter your mind, what you’re looking at.
There seems a fixation with images on the packaging because that is really the only thing that he and the concerned party is able to see. I think most anyone not familiar with the games, looking at the packaging of the game Diablo or Doom or Baldur’s gate for example or any video game with gruesome images, would say the same thing. However that is akin to being a judge and judging against the defendant because he looks shady. Depiction of the devil is present in the Catholic Church with paintings and sculptures of St. Michael crushing the devil under his boot at the tip of his sword. The devil is depicted on the Sistine Chapel.
The priest’s reaction is pretty much what I expected. Absent however is an urgency or mandate to do something to fix the situation. I doubt that he would have issued the same remark if he was told that somebody is in the throes of a demonic possession ( which actually supports the notion that there does not exist the same level of danger as would have been from an ouija board or tarot cards ). I would use “not good” to describe being late for work, or putting too much salt on the beef stew. I wouldn’t use it to describe somebody dying from a car accident, or somebody floating the bed while weird lights flash on and off and furniture keeps flying around.
Please bear with me. I am still trying to understand the nature of the objection and it is becoming more evident that it might simply be because of the gruesome imagery in the packaging, that somehow, it is claimed anyway that such images channel the supernatural forces, and mere possession of such items because those images “enter your mind”, result in the diabolic ruination of your soul.
QUESTION 3: Is this assertion that gruesome images can lead to damnation, a Catholic thing?
What I mean by that, is that is this concept mainstream Catholic belief?
I mean no offense to anyone in this board.
It’s interesting you qualify with the word trustworthy. Does that mean different priests share different opinions regarding this matter?it is important to consult with a trustworthy priest
A priest has been consulted without my knowledge and he said when presented with one or some of the items: “It is not good”. He also gave a warning to be careful with what you allow to enter your mind, what you’re looking at.
There seems a fixation with images on the packaging because that is really the only thing that he and the concerned party is able to see. I think most anyone not familiar with the games, looking at the packaging of the game Diablo or Doom or Baldur’s gate for example or any video game with gruesome images, would say the same thing. However that is akin to being a judge and judging against the defendant because he looks shady. Depiction of the devil is present in the Catholic Church with paintings and sculptures of St. Michael crushing the devil under his boot at the tip of his sword. The devil is depicted on the Sistine Chapel.
The priest’s reaction is pretty much what I expected. Absent however is an urgency or mandate to do something to fix the situation. I doubt that he would have issued the same remark if he was told that somebody is in the throes of a demonic possession ( which actually supports the notion that there does not exist the same level of danger as would have been from an ouija board or tarot cards ). I would use “not good” to describe being late for work, or putting too much salt on the beef stew. I wouldn’t use it to describe somebody dying from a car accident, or somebody floating the bed while weird lights flash on and off and furniture keeps flying around.
Please bear with me. I am still trying to understand the nature of the objection and it is becoming more evident that it might simply be because of the gruesome imagery in the packaging, that somehow, it is claimed anyway that such images channel the supernatural forces, and mere possession of such items because those images “enter your mind”, result in the diabolic ruination of your soul.
QUESTION 3: Is this assertion that gruesome images can lead to damnation, a Catholic thing?
What I mean by that, is that is this concept mainstream Catholic belief?
I mean no offense to anyone in this board.
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Theban
Guest
No, mere art and images do not hold any supernatural powers in and of themselves, whether that art is beautiful or gruesome. Thinking so could even be the sin of superstition. They have some natural powers, in that good art makes us feel good and gruesome art gives negative feelings, but otherwise there would need to be some outside influence in order to bring about any supernatural qualities.Is the idea that “popular media is cursed ( consecrated to the devil by satanists) because they have gruesome imagery or deal with fantasy and dungeons and dragons” being spread by authoritative sources in the Catholic church?
That being said, I think it is worth noting that demons are persons too, and in my opinion I think it is likely that they would prefer to attach themselves to a horrific piece of art, rather than a lightbulb. Curses aren’t the only way to make a demon attach itself to an object or a person, in theory any sin could do it. It’s probably more correct to say that the reason satanic rituals sometimes work is because they are sins. Even so, it is extremely rare.
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Theban
Guest
It can be an occasion of sin, but I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically evil about it. There is the risk of being overly attached, as with all worldly things, but I do think vulgar literature and especially video games have some additional risks that aren’t commonly found in more traditional forms of entertainment. If these occasions tempt you at all, then it might be a good idea to find something else to do to unwind. I would be wary of calling it a sin not to, though.Is there anything in the act of playing a dungeons and dragons game or reading a fantasy novel that by definition is a sinful act?
Yes, there is a lot of confusion on this subject. Like C. S. Lewis says, there are two great errors people make when it comes to the Devil; one is disbelieving and the other is giving him too much credit. Priests can fall into these errors too, and until recently the subject of the Devil was all but ignored at large in the Church.Does that mean different priests share different opinions regarding this matter?
To combat this the Church issued several documents reaffirming the existence of the Devil and the demonic, and I think there is an ongoing reawakening to the fact among the faithful (and priests) as a result.
The reason you should mind what sort of things you allow into your mind is because demons (demons are affecting all of us all the time in minor ways. They require a sin or a curse to affect us extraordinarily, but they don’t need anything to do their ordinary activity) aren’t allowed to implant images in your mind (ordinarily), but they can draw on your memory. This is something to consider for sure.It is not good”. He also gave a warning to be careful with what you allow to enter your mind, what you’re looking at.
I recommend either following the priests advice, or personally consulting him or a different priest about this.
Firstly, I’d like to point out that neither the Devil nor his minions can touch your soul. The only way to ruin your soul is by commiting a sin, and no demon can force you to do that, try as they might. Secondly, the Catholic Church is very clear in denouncing superstition, which is defined as ascribing supernatural properties to natural causes. So no, it’s not a catholic thing.that such images channel the supernatural forces, and mere possession of such items because those images “enter your mind”, result in the diabolic ruination of your soul.
QUESTION 3: Is this assertion that gruesome images can lead to damnation, a Catholic thing?
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dndgamer
Guest
Thanks for the replies. I am learning a lot here.
I think I am also realizing that there will be persons in polar opposites of the spectrum on any topic and perhaps the concerned party on this topic, just sits closer to one of the poles. Some people are left, some right and some center. I just wished the boundaries are more clear between truth and fiction. I personally believe that sitting at either polar ends is dangerous. On one, there is complacency, on the other paranoia.
I lament that in the Church, different views exist. For example, the Harry Potter books were lauded by some priests to have “a good dose of moral truth” and “help children to see the difference between good and evil”. Others ban and burn the books after consulting with exorcists because “The curses and spells used in the books are actual curses and spells; which when read by a human being risk conjuring evil spirits into the presence of the person reading the text”.
I think Dungeons and Dragons and Fantasy Novels fall into this category of topics where “views” exist, not dogma or doctrine. At least I am not aware of any specific binding unified Church pronouncement about them.
If you want a different answer, perhaps ask another priest.
With regards to supernatural evil, there are those who would only ascribe supernatural evil properties to certain things like Ouija boards or tarot cards or not at all to these or any other object used in satanic rituals, but there are those who would ascribe such supernatural forces to the most mundane things like food and therefore we must seek protection from supernatural evil that might have used the food as a vector for transmission (I kid you not. That this conclusion can be deduced from the faith, is just unbelievable. “Bless this food and protect us from it…” ).
The audit of my library happened after the concerned party watched Fr. Chad Ripperger’s video on youtube and I was sent a link to view it to justify the reason for the pronouncement that there is presence of the supernatural in my collected physical media, even digital ones. I worry about the effect of such videos on some segment of the population who will take every word as doctrine and make their own conclusions extending from what is being presented face value. Having said that though, I don’t believe everything Fr. Chad Ripperger said. Not to detract from the topic, he said in 1:37:30 on Spiritual Warfare Part 1 that 99.9 percent of homosexuality is from childhood trauma and that in the absence of such trauma, it is possible with the influence of demons, specifically Azmodeus or Lilith. He didn’t actually say possession by such demons is the cause for the .1 percent but said they are the source of homosexual ideation . But somebody could make the conclusion that since the topic is exorcism, that he might be talking about demonic possession as the reason very rarely that somebody is gay. It is also easy to hold on and center on the idea of the supernatural angle as it seems fantastical perhaps or diabolic and threatening and forget that it is actually “rare” along with other instances of possession.
I think I am also realizing that there will be persons in polar opposites of the spectrum on any topic and perhaps the concerned party on this topic, just sits closer to one of the poles. Some people are left, some right and some center. I just wished the boundaries are more clear between truth and fiction. I personally believe that sitting at either polar ends is dangerous. On one, there is complacency, on the other paranoia.
I lament that in the Church, different views exist. For example, the Harry Potter books were lauded by some priests to have “a good dose of moral truth” and “help children to see the difference between good and evil”. Others ban and burn the books after consulting with exorcists because “The curses and spells used in the books are actual curses and spells; which when read by a human being risk conjuring evil spirits into the presence of the person reading the text”.
I think Dungeons and Dragons and Fantasy Novels fall into this category of topics where “views” exist, not dogma or doctrine. At least I am not aware of any specific binding unified Church pronouncement about them.
If you want a different answer, perhaps ask another priest.
With regards to supernatural evil, there are those who would only ascribe supernatural evil properties to certain things like Ouija boards or tarot cards or not at all to these or any other object used in satanic rituals, but there are those who would ascribe such supernatural forces to the most mundane things like food and therefore we must seek protection from supernatural evil that might have used the food as a vector for transmission (I kid you not. That this conclusion can be deduced from the faith, is just unbelievable. “Bless this food and protect us from it…” ).
The audit of my library happened after the concerned party watched Fr. Chad Ripperger’s video on youtube and I was sent a link to view it to justify the reason for the pronouncement that there is presence of the supernatural in my collected physical media, even digital ones. I worry about the effect of such videos on some segment of the population who will take every word as doctrine and make their own conclusions extending from what is being presented face value. Having said that though, I don’t believe everything Fr. Chad Ripperger said. Not to detract from the topic, he said in 1:37:30 on Spiritual Warfare Part 1 that 99.9 percent of homosexuality is from childhood trauma and that in the absence of such trauma, it is possible with the influence of demons, specifically Azmodeus or Lilith. He didn’t actually say possession by such demons is the cause for the .1 percent but said they are the source of homosexual ideation . But somebody could make the conclusion that since the topic is exorcism, that he might be talking about demonic possession as the reason very rarely that somebody is gay. It is also easy to hold on and center on the idea of the supernatural angle as it seems fantastical perhaps or diabolic and threatening and forget that it is actually “rare” along with other instances of possession.
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dndgamer
Guest
Again, I don’t mean to offend anyone in this board, but I don’t believe that every gay person is either possessed or traumatized as a child.
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dndgamer
Guest
I really am just interested in the general case or the commonly held or popular view of the topic. Basically I was asking what most Catholics believe. Individually there will be extreme points of view. I am looking for the center Catholic view. I am inclined to believe that the popular Catholic belief is true but I am open minded about the defense/support of extreme points of view and I am curious about their origins.
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dndgamer
Guest
Here is another C.S. Lewis quote:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
It seems applicable.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
It seems applicable.
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dndgamer
Guest
The answer to the questions I posted doesn’t “depend on me”. If that was the case, then there would be as many answers to the same question as there are askers. A lot of people think priests can do no wrong or say no wrong. They are authoritative sources of information about the Catholic faith. However, they do have disagreements on some details. I don’t believe they have disagreements on core issues although even that is put into question now.
The questions I summarize:
Q1. Is it possible that the physical media in which the Books, Games, Media come in (examples above) can be diabolically infested as to pose a supernatural threat allowing the devil a gateway for possession?
A1. Possible but rarely with physical media. Digital downloads cannot be cursed.
Q2. Is there anything in dungeons and dragons games or fantasy novels that intrinsically makes consuming these types of media sinful?
A1. Nothing intrinsically, but can be an occasion of sin.
Q3. Can gruesome images lead to damnation through diabolic infestation?
A1. No. That is superstition.
The answers above shoudn’t be qualifed as “but in your case…”
I welcome the opinion of any priests here that happen to be following or reading these posts. They are free to express their opinion, to clarify, correct, support any of the points thus far presented. I actually wish they would offer their opinions if any are reading these posts.Yes, there is a lot of confusion on this subject. Like C. S. Lewis says, there are two great errors people make when it comes to the Devil; one is disbelieving and the other is giving him too much credit. Priests can fall into these errors too, and until recently the subject of the Devil was all but ignored at large in the Church.
The questions I summarize:
Q1. Is it possible that the physical media in which the Books, Games, Media come in (examples above) can be diabolically infested as to pose a supernatural threat allowing the devil a gateway for possession?
A1. Possible but rarely with physical media. Digital downloads cannot be cursed.
Q2. Is there anything in dungeons and dragons games or fantasy novels that intrinsically makes consuming these types of media sinful?
A1. Nothing intrinsically, but can be an occasion of sin.
Q3. Can gruesome images lead to damnation through diabolic infestation?
A1. No. That is superstition.
The answers above shoudn’t be qualifed as “but in your case…”
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