About Confession.....

[Hoxbar]

First let me say I am not Catholic. I’m Assembly of God and have recently been curious about the Catholic church. I’d like to ask a question about the Sacrament of Confession. As an Assembly of God I believe I can ask Christ directly for forgivness of my sins. I have read other threads and they are very helpful in regards to scripture where Christ breathed on his disciples and “gave” them the power to forgive sins. My question is, can a Catholic not ask Christ Jesus directly to forgive them of their sins ? If they can not what if there is not a Priest available?

 

[Geremia]

My question is, can a Catholic not ask Christ Jesus directly to forgive them of their sins ?

From the Baltimore Catechism:

Q. 740. Could God not forgive our sins if we confessed them to Himself in secret?
A. Certainly, God could forgive our sins if we confessed them to Himself in secret, but He has not promised to do so; whereas He has promised to pardon them if we confess them to His priests. Since He is free to pardon or not to pardon, He has the right to establish a Sacrament through which alone He will pardon.

 

[Timothysis]

The Church is bound by Christ but Christ is not bound by the Church. Certainly he can absolve anyone He wishes to at anytime. Yes, we can ask Him in private prayer to forgive our sins but we must keep in mind that Christ gave us the sacrament of confession in order to absolve our sins. It is a ministry of the Church.

So, if one has access to confession, one should seek Christ’s forgiveness through the ministry of His church in this manner.

If one doesn’t have this access, then it is probably best to try and make a true act of contrition, with true sorrow for your sins because they offend the love of Christ and a firm resolve to avoid these and occasions of these sins.

The Mercy of Christ is infinite; all have a right to it but as Christ told St. Faustina, “the greater the sinner, the greater the right he has to my mercy.”

 

[Hoxbar]

1 John 1:9 (King James Version)

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So does this verse mean only to a priest and not through private prayer?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church;

VI. THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION

1440 Sin is before all else an offense against God, a rupture of communion with him. At the same time it damages communion with the Church. For this reason conversion entails both God’s forgiveness and reconciliation with the Church, which are expressed and accomplished liturgically by the sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation.38

Only God forgives sin

1441 Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."43

Reconciliation with the Church

1443 During his public life Jesus not only forgave sins, but also made plain the effect of this forgiveness: he reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community of the People of God from which sin had alienated or even excluded them. A remarkable sign of this is the fact that Jesus receives sinners at his table, a gesture that expresses in an astonishing way both God’s forgiveness and the return to the bosom of the People of God.44

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46

1445 The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm

Jim

 

[jmcrae]

1 John 1:9 (King James Version)

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So does this verse mean only to a priest and not through private prayer?

To “confess” is to speak aloud to another person. We “confess our faith” by witnessing out loud to unbelievers, right?

So, when we “confess” our sins (rather than simply think of them with regret) it implies that there is someone else present.

In the Epistle of James, it becomes clear that the other person present is typically a priest, when he exhorts the sick person to make a confession of his sins to the priest (righteous man) who comes to anoint him with the anointing of the sick. (James 5:14-16)

 

[mercygate]

1 John 1:9 (King James Version)

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So does this verse mean only to a priest and not through private prayer?

I like jmcrae’s response and second the motion. But I ask you to think of it this way:

If Jesus “breathed on the Apostles” and GAVE them the power to forgive sins, (which he clearly did) wouldn’t we expect that they should USE it?

Do we confess any LESS to God when we confess to a priest than we do in “private” prayer? I say it is “more” of a confession to God because it takes more guts. So, as jmcrae pointed out, we are “confessing” demonstrably our faith in the forgiveness of sns.

As one who came to the practice of Confession as an adult convert, I ASSURE you that Jesus does not leave the room when I visit my Confessor. (I always go to the same priest for Confession.)

 

[brownjt]

I like jmcrae’s response and second the motion. But I ask you to think of it this way:

If Jesus “breathed on the Apostles” and GAVE them the power to forgive sins, (which he clearly did) wouldn’t we expect that they should USE it?

Do we confess any LESS to God when we confess to a priest than we do in “private” prayer? I say it is “more” of a confession to God because it takes more guts. So, as jmcrae pointed out, we are “confessing” demonstrably our faith in the forgiveness of sns.

As one who came to the practice of Confession as an adult convert, I ASSURE you that Jesus does not leave the room when I visit my Confessor. (I always go to the same priest for Confession.)

Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit forgives sins, of course. You cannot limit only to priests.

What about if the priest himself is unclean and not fit to hear confessions? What about confessions to a priest who was involved in the molestations - but who themselves did not confess this sin to another priest. I believe that the protestant church should have that capacity as a sacrament, but in that case their ordination rites and procedures need to be strengthened and changed.

Then again we are actually confessing to Jesus Christ through the priest - he is only a vessel and is granting us the “forgiveness” from Jesus Christ. All of us should remember it must be sincere and from the heart. Jesus will know - the priest will not. - a long time protestant in RCIA.

 

[mercygate]

Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit forgives sins, of course. You cannot limit only to priests.

We do not limit the Holy Spirit. As someone stated up thread: The Church is limited by Christ but Christ is not limited by the Church. The Church can only do what He has guided her to do.

What about if the priest himself is unclean and not fit to hear confessions? What about confessions to a priest who was involved in the molestations - but who themselves did not confess this sin to another priest.

The whole controversy of the worthiness of the Minister was settled in the 3rd century with the Donatist controversy. Good thing, too, since nobody is “worthy” to celebrate the Sacraments.

I believe that the protestant church should have that capacity as a sacrament, but in that case their ordination rites and procedures need to be strengthened and changed.

As an Episcopalian, I made sacramental confessions for many years. And I received much grace from it. That is not to say that I received the same sanctifying or sacramental grace that one receives through the Church. Confession is good for you, however you do it.

Then again we are actually confessing to Jesus Christ through the priest - he is only a vessel and is granting us the “forgiveness” from Jesus Christ. All of us should remember it must be sincere and from the heart. Jesus will know - the priest will not. - a long time protestant in RCIA.

As I said: Jesus does not leave the room when we confess to a priest. And we DO confess “to” the priest because he represents the entire Church as well as serving “in persona Christi” (2 Cor 2:10). Back in the good old days (like, the 2nd century) you made your confession in front of the whole congregation. I’m kinda glad we don’t have to do that anymore!

 

[scaron]

Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit forgives sins, of course. You cannot limit only to priests.

What about if the priest himself is unclean and not fit to hear confessions? What about confessions to a priest who was involved in the molestations - but who themselves did not confess this sin to another priest. I believe that the protestant church should have that capacity as a sacrament, but in that case their ordination rites and procedures need to be strengthened and changed.

Then again we are actually confessing to Jesus Christ through the priest - he is only a vessel and is granting us the “forgiveness” from Jesus Christ. All of us should remember it must be sincere and from the heart. Jesus will know - the priest will not. - a long time protestant in RCIA.

You got it in the end of your post. The priest is in persona Christe - in the person of Christ. Christ himself forgives your sins through the absolution of the priest - but only if all of the form and matter of the sacrament is present, whether or not the priest knows this.

For instance, to receive absolution, you must make an integral confession - that is, you must confess all of your mortal sins, and not deliberately leave some out (because you are embarrassed, usually). Note that sins you have forgotten are absolved anyway - an integral confession involves all the mortal sins you can remember at the time.

But the priest in the confessional doesn’t know (unless blessed with a special grace like Padre Pio) if your confession is integral. He grants you the form of absolution (the words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”) but no absolution obtains because the “matter” - an integral vocal confession - is invalid.

Likewise, the state of grace of the confessor is not relevant to the confession. Any validly ordained priest, with proper faculties from the local ordinary (ie. the local bishop) can grant absolution. The idea that the state of the soul of the priest enters into the sacrament is a very old, and thoroughly dismissed heresy. The relevant “state of soul” is not the priest’s, but the penitents (contrition, integral confession, intent to do satisfaction (ie the penance the priest gives)) and Christ’s. The priest’s soul doesn’t enter into the sacrament.

 

[LilyM]

1 John 1:9 (King James Version)

9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

So does this verse mean only to a priest and not through private prayer?

If we can confess to a priest, yes. Not everyone can, of course.

Remember King David, in the OT, after adultering with Bathsheba confessed to God privately in the beautiful Psalm 51.

But, very importantly, David didn’t presume that just by confessing and praying privately that he’d been forgiven. He required Nathan to do what our priests do for us - to verbally reassure David that his prayers and confession had been heard and were acceptable to God. This is what our priests do with their words of absolution.

 

[brownjt]

If we can confess to a priest, yes. Not everyone can, of course.

Remember King David, in the OT, after adultering with Bathsheba confessed to God privately in the beautiful Psalm 51.

But, very importantly, David didn’t presume that just by confessing and praying privately that he’d been forgiven. He required Nathan to do what our priests do for us - to verbally reassure David that his prayers and confession had been heard and were acceptable to God. This is what our priests do with their words of absolution.

that may - repeat - may be right or proper for those denominations with this sacrament. Are you saying that all other Christians cannot do it through private prayer? [Edited]

 

[brownjt]

But does a priest’s word of absolution only says that God has heard and accepted the confession? So the priest - hearing the confession and based on his authority from God can grant forgiveness?

Does the priest ask certain questions and infer sincerity from his exchange with the confessor before he sayS we are given absolution? I am in RCIA and wonder how this is accomplished.

On the other hand, I have rushed my private confessions - as a human being. I know how rushed and indifferent confessions sounded to my mother!

 

[jmcrae]

But a priest’s word of absolution only says that god has heard and accepted the confession? So the priest - hearing the confession and based on his authority from God can grant forgiveness?

The Sacrament is the channel of God’s grace.

Just as water comes into your tap from the source of water (river, reservoir, lake, etc.) so also, God’s grace comes into His Church (the Church meaning us, the people - not the physical building) by means of the Sacraments.

The minister of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the priest. The elements that compose this Sacrament are:

1. the repentant person’s confession of sins (naming their sins one by one), and
2. the words of the Absolution that are spoken by the priest.

Does the priest ask certain questions and infer sincerity from his exchange with the confessor before he say we are given absolution? I am in RCIA and wonder how this is accomplished.

Not usually, unless the priest has some reason to think that you have come to Confession against your own will. It is usually assumed that you are honestly repenting of your sins, simply because you came to Confession. Normally, if you were not repentant, you most likely would not come to Confession. It’s not like anybody keeps tabs on you.)

 

[scaron]

The minister of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the priest. The elements that compose this Sacrament are:

1. the repentant person’s confession of sins (naming their sins one by one), and
2. the words of the Absolution that are spoken by the priest.

Not usually, unless the priest has some reason to think that you have come to Confession against your own will. It is usually assumed that you are honestly repenting of your sins, simply because you came to Confession. Normally, if you were not repentant, you most likely would not come to Confession. It’s not like anybody keeps tabs on you.)

Guess I will take a slight exception to this. All sacraments have two constituents - form, and matter. To be a valid sacrament, both form and matter must be correct and present. The sacrament must be performed by the regular or extraordinary minister of the sacrament to be valid

Baptism is an easy one:
Ordinary minister: Deacon, priest, bishop
Extraordinary minister: anyone who intends what the Church intendeds by the sacrament - namely, baptism.
Matter: is an unbaptized person and water
Form: pouring the water over the person, the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

For the Sacrament of Reconciliation:
Ordinary minister: Priest or Bishop
Extraordinary minister: none
Matter: Three elements from the penitent

1. Contrition, with a firm purpose of amendment
2. an Integral, vocal confession of sins - see thread, above, where I talk about this
3. Satisfaction - performing the penance Father gives you

Form: The hearing of the confession, and the words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”

So, yes, it is certainly possible (and common) for Father to ask questions to get at the root of contrition, a firm purpose of amendment, and the integrality of the confession.

For instance, if you confessed, “I am living with my girlfriend”, you might expect father to ask if you are still living with her. If the answer is yes, Father cannot in general grant absolution, because you have committed a sin that admits of serious matter (breaking the 6th and possibly the 9th commandment), you now have knowledge that is a serious sin (Father will surely tell you it is, if you didn’t know before) and you intend to keep commiting it in full knowledge of this - all three elements of a mortal sin are present. No contrition, no firm purpose of amendment, Father cannot give you absolution, in general terms.

So, depending on the confession and details given, Father may ask questions, and may deny absolution based on your answers.

This is, of course, not a happy circumstance, and all priests will try to help you and counsel you to get into a situation where absolution is possible. No priest likes denying a sacrament to anybody - bringing sacraments to Christ’s Body the Church is after all his life’s work. But pronouncing the words of absolution over someone where valid matter does not exist (and so no sacrament conveyed) is equally terrible.

 

[jmcrae]

Guess I will take a slight exception to this. All sacraments have two constituents - form, and matter. To be a valid sacrament, both form and matter must be correct and present. The sacrament must be performed by the regular or extraordinary minister of the sacrament to be valid

Baptism is an easy one:
Ordinary minister: Deacon, priest, bishop
Extraordinary minister: anyone who intends what the Church intendeds by the sacrament - namely, baptism.
Matter: is an unbaptized person and water
Form: pouring the water over the person, the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

For the Sacrament of Reconciliation:
Ordinary minister: Priest or Bishop
Extraordinary minister: none
Matter: Three elements from the penitent

1. Contrition, with a firm purpose of amendment
2. an Integral, vocal confession of sins - see thread, above, where I talk about this
3. Satisfaction - performing the penance Father gives you

Form: The hearing of the confession, and the words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”

So, yes, it is certainly possible (and common) for Father to ask questions to get at the root of contrition, a firm purpose of amendment, and the integrality of the confession.

For instance, if you confessed, “I am living with my girlfriend”, you might expect father to ask if you are still living with her. If the answer is yes, Father cannot in general grant absolution, because you have committed a sin that admits of serious matter (breaking the 6th and possibly the 9th commandment), you now have knowledge that is a serious sin (Father will surely tell you it is, if you didn’t know before) and you intend to keep commiting it in full knowledge of this - all three elements of a mortal sin are present. No contrition, no firm purpose of amendment, Father cannot give you absolution, in general terms.

So, depending on the confession and details given, Father may ask questions, and may deny absolution based on your answers.

In a situation like that (which I don’t think is very common - it would occur in a case where someone is just now returning to the church and hasn’t been to Confession in many years, but you wouldn’t see it with people who go to Confession on a weekly basis) yes, certainly, Father would ask a lot of questions. The person would not be returning to Confession once a week with the same problem, either - he would get his situation sorted out before he started coming on a regular basis.

But in the normal Confession of someone who goes regularly to Confession, he wouldn’t normally have occasion to ask too many questions, unless he just wanted to have something clarified.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hi scaron,

Just a bit of clarification on something that you inadvertently implied:

All sacraments have two constituents - form, and matter. To be a valid sacrament, both form and matter must be correct and present.

(. . . )

For the Sacrament of Reconciliation:
(. . .)
Matter: Three elements from the penitent

1. Contrition, with a firm purpose of amendment
2. an Integral, vocal confession of sins - see thread, above, where I talk about this
3. Satisfaction - performing the penance Father gives you

While the matter of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is indeed the three acts of the penitent – contrition, confession, and satisfaction – only the first two are *essential *matter. The primary effect of the sacrament (remission of guilt and eternal punishment) is obtained even without satisfaction. Although satisfaction is an integral part of the sacrament it is not a necessary one (i.e. without which, not).

This distinction is important when one considers that the performance of satisfaction occurs after absolution. And especially that in some cases the performance of satisfaction may be impeded for quite awhile, or even never completed, due to some intervening cause.

VC

 

[mercygate]

But does a priest’s word of absolution only says that God has heard and accepted the confession? So the priest - hearing the confession and based on his authority from God can grant forgiveness?

The priest pronounces absolution in these words:

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and the resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us
for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church
may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Does the priest ask certain questions and infer sincerity from his exchange with the confessor before he sayS we are given absolution?

This is a pastoral sacrament, and often there is sincere dialogue.

I am in RCIA and wonder how this is accomplished.

You are not alone. Confession is one of the things many non-Catholics are VERY curious about. Your training should give you the information you need, and a priest – especially hearing a first confession – will help you through it.

On the other hand, I have rushed my private confessions - as a human being. I know how rushed and indifferent confessions sounded to my mother!

You’re in for a whole new experience coming to this as an adult in a spirit of humility and hope in Our Lord’s mercy.

 

[scaron]

Hi scaron,

Just a bit of clarification on something that you inadvertently implied:

While the matter of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is indeed the three acts of the penitent – contrition, confession, and satisfaction – only the first two are *essential *matter. The primary effect of the sacrament (remission of guilt and eternal punishment) is obtained even without satisfaction. Although satisfaction is an integral part of the sacrament it is not a necessary one (i.e. without which, not).

This distinction is important when one considers that the performance of satisfaction occurs after absolution. And especially that in some cases the performance of satisfaction may be impeded for quite awhile, or even never completed, due to some intervening cause.

VC

Excellent! Thanks VC! I always wondered how that would work, because, as you say, satisfaction occurs afterward.

 

[brownjt]

Guess I will take a slight exception to this. All sacraments have two constituents - form, and matter. To be a valid sacrament, both form and matter must be correct and present. The sacrament must be performed by the regular or extraordinary minister of the sacrament to be valid

Baptism is an easy one:
Ordinary minister: Deacon, priest, bishop
Extraordinary minister: anyone who intends what the Church intendeds by the sacrament - namely, baptism.
Matter: is an unbaptized person and water
Form: pouring the water over the person, the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

For the Sacrament of Reconciliation:
Ordinary minister: Priest or Bishop
Extraordinary minister: none
Matter: Three elements from the penitent

1. Contrition, with a firm purpose of amendment
2. an Integral, vocal confession of sins - see thread, above, where I talk about this
3. Satisfaction - performing the penance Father gives you

Form: The hearing of the confession, and the words “I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”

So, yes, it is certainly possible (and common) for Father to ask questions to get at the root of contrition, a firm purpose of amendment, and the integrality of the confession.

For instance, if you confessed, “I am living with my girlfriend”, you might expect father to ask if you are still living with her. If the answer is yes, Father cannot in general grant absolution, because you have committed a sin that admits of serious matter (breaking the 6th and possibly the 9th commandment), you now have knowledge that is a serious sin (Father will surely tell you it is, if you didn’t know before) and you intend to keep commiting it in full knowledge of this - all three elements of a mortal sin are present. No contrition, no firm purpose of amendment, Father cannot give you absolution, in general terms.

So, depending on the confession and details given, Father may ask questions, and may deny absolution based on your answers.

This is, of course, not a happy circumstance, and all priests will try to help you and counsel you to get into a situation where absolution is possible. No priest likes denying a sacrament to anybody - bringing sacraments to Christ’s Body the Church is after all his life’s work. But pronouncing the words of absolution over someone where valid matter does not exist (and so no sacrament conveyed) is equally terrible.

If - and i mean this sincerely - your sin and continued sin could be seen by you and the Father as a condition, an ailment, and addiction, something that you cannot control at that moment- like alcoholism, drug addiction, depresssion, etc - you know what I am getting at…I imagine the Fathe would have a choice then. There are may who cry out and cannot do anyhting - or do not know how to help themselves - maybe, in this case, the contrition alone would absolve this sin, but the amdement and penance (?) would come later?