...About Dying...

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awsmith1861

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I’m watching my father-in-law start to die with heart related issues. He’s probably got another 2-5 years left assuming a surgery to clear one of the carotid arteries goes well today.

And my wife, a convert (as am I) said that she was so grateful that she converted and saw the truth in the Church’s teachings. I asked what she meant and she said that she said that because of the way her father is very frightened of dying.

First… Ya’ll better say some extra prayers if he dies before you do. This man is a living saint in my mind. I know he’s not even my kin, but I married into his family and honestly I have a very close, very dignified relationship with my in-laws. If he gets to heaven before we do, the entrance requirements are going to go up.

But… He has been raised Pentecostal his entire life. The particular church and pastors he has had over the years are really big on the ‘burn in Hell’ side of theology and a little short on the ‘Jesus loves and forgives you’ side.

So now that he’s facing death down, he’s understandably frightened and its heartbreaking to hear such a great man so upset with fear.

Even the strongest of us can be afraid when death comes knocking. I think his fears have been made soooo much worse by the way he hasn’t seen the more caring side of our Lord.

Ugh. Not sure where I was headed with this post other than to say that its worth spending some time to contemplate how YOU would handle death beating on your door. I got a 'you barely dodged emphysema, be glad you quit smoking when you did ’ scare a while back. It’ll make you think.
 
My sympathy to your father-in-law as he goes through his sickness. It is natural that we fear death because it is a thing of the unknown. A word of comfort if it does, is that death is a certainty which everyone of us will go through. It is just a matter of when. As Christians we do not afraid of it, though we do not seek it but when it comes we will welcome it. The reason is because of Jesus and his promise that even though we die we will live because we believe. Thus death does not defeat us and in fact it is a victory for those Christians who depart from this world remembering that greater reward would await us.

Probably that is easier said than done but let’s know that God does not condemn us to hell. We do not know whether we will go to hell. We know however that salvation comes from Jesus and if we believe we will be saved. Of course that is a minimal requirement but nevertheless that knowledge should comfort us. And besides we do still have time to approach God even in dying to seek his forgiveness and mercy by really trying to return to him.

God bless.
 
You point out well one of the downsides of the Hell fire and Brimstone type of focus. It has limited ability to comfort. What a great opportunity to explore his fears and grow closer to Christ through the time he has left.
 
I for one am terrified of death, so can’t really help you. It’s just hideous!
 
awsmith1861 said:
I’m watching my father-in-law start to die with heart related issues. He’s probably got another 2-5 years left assuming a surgery to clear one of the carotid arteries goes well today.

…and a little short on the ‘Jesus loves and forgives you’ side.

So now that he’s facing death down, he’s understandably frightened and its heartbreaking to hear such a great man so upset with fear.

…his fears have been made soooo much worse by the way he hasn’t seen the more caring side of our Lord.

Ugh. Not sure where I was headed with this post
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Praying for his surgery and guidance to those on the medical team who are caring for him.

Praying that your father-in-law finds peace in his life so as not to fear death.

God has blessed your FIL with a caring and loving daughter and son-in-law. While the medical team has this chance to improve his heart on a medical side, you two are blessed with the chance to improve his heart on a spiritual and emotional side.

Find little times and little ways to gently begin to share with him the joys God gives us in this life and the happiness He wishes for us in the next. Share with him the smiles and joy you find in knowing the gentleness and sweetness of Jesus.

We should not fear death. For Christians it is bittersweet, in that we want to be with our loved ones on Earth, but the joys of Heaven in the company of God is beyond our human understanding of love, joy, happiness. You will see a way to share this peace with him.

Praying for you and your beautiful wife as you help him find peace.
 
GEddie said:
I for one am terrified of death, so can’t really help you. It’s just hideous!
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I pray you find peace about death. It must be awful to carry a burden that death is terrifying and hideous. May God lift this burden from you.
 
RoseMary131 said:
Praying for his surgery and guidance to those on the medical team who are caring for him.

Praying that your father-in-law finds peace in his life so as not to fear death.

God has blessed your FIL with a caring and loving daughter and son-in-law. While the medical team has this chance to improve his heart on a medical side, you two are blessed with the chance to improve his heart on a spiritual and emotional side.

Find little times and little ways to gently begin to share with him the joys God gives us in this life and the happiness He wishes for us in the next. Share with him the smiles and joy you find in knowing the gentleness and sweetness of Jesus.

We should not fear death. For Christians it is bittersweet, in that we want to be with our loved ones on Earth, but the joys of Heaven in the company of God is beyond our human understanding of love, joy, happiness. You will see a way to share this peace with him.

Praying for you and your beautiful wife as you help him find peace.
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Beautiful post–well said. I’d just like to add as scary as death is it is also a grace to be given an opportunity to amend our lives when we go through suffering or are given a shortened life expectancy.It is an even bigger opportunity to be able to bring others to know the Lord and to let them experience Jesus through our caring and compassion for them.As others have pointed out we will all have to face our mortality one day and the closer we stay to Jesus the stronger and less fearful we become.
 
Reuben_J said:
My sympathy to your father-in-law as he goes through his sickness. It is natural that we fear death because it is a thing of the unknown. A word of comfort if it does, is that death is a certainty which everyone of us will go through. It is just a matter of when. As Christians we do not afraid of it, though we do not seek it but when it comes we will welcome it. The reason is because of Jesus and his promise that even though we die we will live because we believe. Thus death does not defeat us and in fact it is a victory for those Christians who depart from this world remembering that greater reward would await us.

Probably that is easier said than done but let’s know that God does not condemn us to hell. We do not know whether we will go to hell. We know however that salvation comes from Jesus and if we believe we will be saved. Of course that is a minimal requirement but nevertheless that knowledge should comfort us. And besides we do still have time to approach God even in dying to seek his forgiveness and mercy by really trying to return to him.

God bless.
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Well said. I just wish I could find a way to approch the subject with him. I have a really good book called “A midwife for the soul” written by a nun (sorry, sister, I don’t recall your name + the book is packed away). Its a real shame this man fears death. But even the most devout can be very frightened of death when it comes. I’m not brave enough to say that I would not be scared as well. My issue with fear of dying is not ‘will I get into heaven’ but ‘Is there really an afterlife?’. I was raised Pentecostal / Baptist but I was also an atheist from age 10 to 21. I still have my doubts about God’s existence from time to time. But that always quickly ends when I start looking at anything scientific. In my mind science has done more to prove God exists than theology. But that’s another thread. 8)
 
I hope that you’re successful at evangelizing him.
 
Awsmith…
Your post touches me deeply as my wife is also slowly dying - but with dementia.

My hopes and prayers are with your family today and moving forward.

It might be beneficial to contact the Catholic hospital Chaplain. He can speak with you as well as with your FIL and the Church’s great understanding of suffering and forgiveness and end of life issues may be of great benefit to your FIL.

Peace
James
 
Aussiegal said:
Beautiful post–well said. I’d just like to add as scary as death is it is also a grace to be given an opportunity to amend our lives when we go through suffering or are given a shortened life expectancy.It is an even bigger opportunity to be able to bring others to know the Lord and to let them experience Jesus through our caring and compassion for them.As others have pointed out we will all have to face our mortality one day and the closer we stay to Jesus the stronger and less fearful we become.
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True that. I was put on notice by that doctor about my lungs. He said I can do anything I want but tobacco if I want to see my 50th wedding anniversary and that even if I did develop emphysema that it would be controlable. I had 72 hours of wondering between “You may have emphysema, come back in,” and, “Its not emphysema, but its reaaaaly close. Some damage has been done and its irreversable. However not enough damage has been done to cause you to die of emphysema. You may still get it, but odds are not until you are in your 70s and even then it will be probably easily controlled with drugs we have available cheap today.”

Talk about a real eye opener. I worry not so much about me getting into heaven but for the wife + kids I have. I’m the only guy with a good job. That was MUCH worse than the worry about my own soul. I’ll probably be OK but I will stay in purgatory for a while for some of the things I’ve done.

That insightful self examination that comes with the knock of death at the door is indeed a powerful and wonderful spiritual gift.

My poor paw-in-law though really needs to lighten up on himself. He and I share VERY similar spiritual backgrounds. We both changed our ways a long time ago. Oh, to sit and talk about God with the man is a real treat. Same for his brother who is still with us. He’s actually a Pentecostal preacher in Mississippi.
 
devoutchristian said:
I hope that you’re successful at evangelizing him.
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Oh, I wouldn’t dream of doing so. He may not be Catholic, and there is the whole extra ecclesia nulla salus theology which is poorly understood. But he’s getting into Heaven when he dies. It may be judgemental of me, but the man has lived as a saint for the last 30 years of his life. He’s given the shirt off of his back to anyone who asks. He’s given food to people when he had none. The list goes on and on.

He’s not going to be converting to Catholicism at all. He has decades of time in the Pentecostal church. I just feel bad for him because he’s really scared. He’s been a converted (to Christianity via the Pentecostal church) for over 30 years.

He’s getting straight into Heaven and I doubt he’ll do a second in purgatory. The man goes out of his way on this side of the grave to right wrongs he’s done.
 
awsmith1861 said:
But he’s getting into Heaven when he dies. It may be judgemental of me, but the man has lived as a saint for the last 30 years of his life. He’s given the shirt off of his back to anyone who asks. He’s given food to people when he had none. The list goes on and on.

I just feel bad for him because he’s really scared.

He’s getting straight into Heaven and I doubt he’ll do a second in purgatory. The man goes out of his way on this side of the grave to right wrongs he’s done.
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Have you shared this with him in a gentle way? …(not the purgatory part)…how much you admire him…how much faith you have in his Victory in going to Heaven… that you place him with the saints… that you see the beauty in his righting any wrongs…

He sounds like a wonderful man, a blessed and holy man…a man frightened, but who has a loving daughter and son-in-law who love him… Let him know how honored you are to call him FIL.
 
JRKH said:
Awsmith…
Your post touches me deeply as my wife is also slowly dying - but with dementia.

My hopes and prayers are with your family today and moving forward.

It might be beneficial to contact the Catholic hospital Chaplain. He can speak with you as well as with your FIL and the Church’s great understanding of suffering and forgiveness and end of life issues may be of great benefit to your FIL.

Peace
James
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Aw James, prayers for you and your wife.

My wife had a nasty bout with post partum depression that got way… WAY out of hand. I ended up having to remove the children from the home for 2 weeks while she worked through some issues. Lets just say there was a legitimate safety concern for me and the kids. I had my family telling me to just leave her when that happened. Needless to say, I took worse instead of better and just settled for worse until she got better. It was a very, very dark time and I came to understand very very well how God carries us during those times. And oh boy, am I ever grateful he carried us through that storm.

Sometimes with mental illness people can be very hurtful and irrational. PPD is bad enough but dementia is far worse, especially these days since Reagan closed all the state run institutions in the 80s. Hopefully your wife doesn’t get into legal trouble from dementia and equally hopefully your local police department is understanding if she does. Hopefully her demntia is something that can be managed at home.
 
My prayers to you, your Father in law and your family. We can teach the faith however we cannot make others learn if they choose not to.
 
I’ll bite on this hook. 8)
devoutchristian said:
Why not?
You don’t know that. To say that you do is the sin of presumption.
Surely you don’t really believe that he’s never sinned?
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Oh I wouldn’t dream of converting him because I know its not going to happen. I’m fighting against 72 years of Pentecostal teachings that conflict with Catholic ones:
  1. Unitarian God vs. our Trinity.
  2. Acts 2:38 vs other passages about baptism in the name of the Trinity
  3. the communion of saints
  4. John chapter 6
  5. etc… etc… etc…
Some people just ain’t converting. I would love to see him convert or at least see that God is not the same one we read about in Thanatopsis ready to drop people like a bug into the fires of Hell. I know he won’t convert. Keep in mind, he can barely read. He may be the wisest man I know, but he is actually barely literate and as a result my wife has power of attorney over him when his wife dies (he signed this right to her about 5 or 6 years ago). So he’s REALLY set in his ways.

He certainly has sinned before, but he’s been converted for over 30 years, regularly prays, reads his bible more than I do (and he has to work to get 1 chapter done because he doesn’t read well).

The sacrifices he made for my wife before we met deeply touched my heart. She came from an unhappy home and he’s her great uncle. He welcomed her into his home when she was 13. Most 13 year olds from unhappy homes are quite a handfull to take care of. He was so kind to my wife. Oh, the stories she has told about him when she was little are amazing.

Some people are really just so saintly that noone ever entertains the idea that they may not make it to Heaven. Its indeed in Christ’s hands at the end of the day. But just as Christ doesn’t doom unbaptised aborted children to Hell, I doubt he would ever dream of sending this man anywhere but Heaven.

Christ isn’t like an american judge dispensing justice so blindly that the innocent get sent to prison.
 
awsmith1861 said:
Aw James, prayers for you and your wife.

My wife had a nasty bout with post partum depression that got way… WAY out of hand. I ended up having to remove the children from the home for 2 weeks while she worked through some issues. Lets just say there was a legitimate safety concern for me and the kids. I had my family telling me to just leave her when that happened. Needless to say, I took worse instead of better and just settled for worse until she got better. It was a very, very dark time and I came to understand very very well how God carries us during those times. And oh boy, am I ever grateful he carried us through that storm.

Sometimes with mental illness people can be very hurtful and irrational. PPD is bad enough but dementia is far worse, especially these days since Reagan closed all the state run institutions in the 80s. Hopefully your wife doesn’t get into legal trouble from dementia and equally hopefully your local police department is understanding if she does. Hopefully her demntia is something that can be managed at home.
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Thank you for your kind words…
In our case the dementia is Alzheimer’s and it is late stage…So we are long past any of the “acting out” issues.
She is at home and I expect her to be here with me until God calls her home.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Awsmith…
Your post touches me deeply as my wife is also slowly dying - but with dementia.

My hopes and prayers are with your family today and moving forward.

It might be beneficial to contact the Catholic hospital Chaplain. He can speak with you as well as with your FIL and the Church’s great understanding of suffering and forgiveness and end of life issues may be of great benefit to your FIL.

Peace
James
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My heart is with you, James, for your wife. I know what kind of a Christian you are by your posts here and I am sure that is a reflection of your wife too. Long ago I was touched when a brother said that ‘God is faithful to those who are faithful to him’. Not to argue over th theological truth of that but it seems to encourage me ever since. I am sure it will do you no less.

As part of some of those things that I have to do, and one of them it to attend or to conduct memorial services, and that often gave me opportunities to minister to the bereaved. One of the things I would say, especially to a deceased whom I knew, would be to tell them (the family) that his journey had ended. He had reached his destination to the loving Father, a place we all long for. There is beauty in death seen through the eyes of faith. That is where we as Christians are truly privileged.

My personal prayer for your wife.

God bless.
 
Reuben_J said:
My heart is with you, James, for your wife. I know what kind of a Christian you are by your posts here and I am sure that is a reflection of your wife too. Long ago I was touched when a brother said that ‘God is faithful to those who are faithful to him’. Not to argue over th theological truth of that but it seems to encourage me ever since. I am sure it will do you no less.

As part of some of those things that I have to do, and one of them it to attend or to conduct memorial services, and that often gave me opportunities to minister to the bereaved. One of the things I would say, especially to a deceased whom I knew, would be to tell them (the family) that his journey had ended. He had reached his destination to the loving Father, a place we all long for. There is beauty in death seen through the eyes of faith. That is where we as Christians are truly privileged.

My personal prayer for your wife.

God bless.
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Thank you Reuben. This is good advice for the OP as well.

Awsmith…I truly appreciate your comments. In our case the dementia is Alzheimer’s and my dear lady has reached the end stages.

I have heard it said by a number of people that many - if not most - protestant denominations really do not have a strong understanding of end of life issues and of suffering whereas the Catholic Church does. That is why I suggested earlier possibly trying to get a priest (or deacon), whoever is Catholic Chaplain of the hospital, to talk to your FIL.

Peace
James
 
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