About Judas state

[MaximilianK]

I have a question about the state of soul of apostle Judas, is he in hell for all eternity,?is a council which said this? Or how we can see this thing?

 

[sudy]

The Church has declared that we can’t determine that any particular person is in hell.

 

[po18guy]

The Church has never made pronouncement on Judas, taking the position, in colloquial terms, that the matter is above their pay grade.

Conversely, the Church does declare, to a moral certainty, that certain souls are in heaven.

 

[phil19034]

The Church has never declared where he is.

However, if you read the Bible closely, it doesn’t look good for Judas.

 

[Anrakyr]

Most of what Catholics get on hell is from the Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri’. It’s honestly the Christain equivalent to the Illiad, based in fact filled in with mythos.

In the Book Dante is horribly depressed over the loss of his love and is considering suicide, Vigil the Romen poet appears to him and asks him to chill out. He offers Dante a chance to see the afterlife if he really thinks suicide will ‘end his pain’.

Virgil takes our hero on tour of hell showing Dante all the ironic punishments that await those who give into sin. People who gave into lust are swept away by mad winds unable to land or or find rest, like they sought rest in the arms of a lover rather then deal with life. Greedy people are slowly crushed under a mountain of gold ect.

Judas though resides in the lowest layer of hell reserved for those who betray. Because Satan was the first traitor they are cell mates after a fasion.

See Lucifer was an very powerful angel which the book implies the more power you have the larger you are. He’s bond in chains waist deep in a frozen lake. Around him are all the souls who betray at various depths in the lake depending on how “cold” the betrayers were.

Judas is in Satan’s mouth being chewed on forever.

To add further insult to injury every soul who dies has to pass through hell stopping where they deserve. However if the soul is heaven bound they get to walk past Lucifer on the way to a tunnel taking them to Purgatory mountain.

Hence the saying " you have to go threw hell to get to heaven".

Dante is up for sainthood as it was a really inspired work however it is fanfiction. Also Dante threw lots of well known people of the time under the bus for his chapters on hell. Mostly to drive home the point " this is you on drugs/political corruption/murder/heresy."

This included a few Pope’s even.

Realistically most revelations about hell imply you sit alone in the dark in a universe without God tormented by your own mind contemplating that the best party in existence youre not at.

Forever.

Fires of hell has many interpretation of from an actual fire to self loathing for all eternity. Most interpretation of hell however most people know comes from the pen of Dante.

But it’s not real or endorsed by the church as real, just really, really well written.

 

[Anrakyr]

2 mortal sins.

Killing yourself isn’t always a mortal sin.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

As many have already said, that is not our place to say. No one is beyond God’s grace if they accept it, so we cannot discount the possibility that, as he died, Judas turned to God for forgiveness.

With that being said, Jesus’ warning about the one who would betray him, that it would be better had that person never been born, certainly doesn’t inspire hope.

Personally, I hope He is in Heaven for the same reason I hope everyone makes it, because Hell is so awful I cannot wish it on even the worst person.

 

[angel12]

I have a question about the state of soul of apostle Judas, is he in hell for all eternity,?is a council which said this? Or how we can see this thing?

We simply don’t know.

 

[Gorgias]

Given the information in the gospel, it likely was in this situation.

I think you could make an interesting argument that it might not have been a mortal sin. Grave? Yes. But, perhaps, not mortal.

(We’re well into the realm of speculation here, so nothing I’m going to assert here falls into the realm of doctrine – or, for that matter, contrary to doctrine! – but is, rather, just some personal musing…)

We would say, today, that not all suicide is mortal sin (which would bring with it the conclusion of loss of heaven). We reason that the strongest, most instinctual, basic drive of humans is the preservation of one’s life. Therefore, if someone ignores that instinct – absent the attempt to save someone else’s life, or for a particular goal which he holds dear – and simply takes his own life, then there’s something very odd going on. We might reason that there could be some sort of mental state – depression, or other conditions – which are in play. Therefore, if a person takes his own life, due to some medical condition (mental or otherwise), then we might ask whether he truly meets the requirement for the presence of mortal sin of “deliberate and complete consent.” (Sure, they consented… but were they in the state of mind sufficiently healthy to be considered capable of complete consent?)

Now let’s turn to Judas. Do the Scriptural accounts show us anything that might give us reason to suggest that his state of mind may have made it possible to question his consent? We see that he returns the money – he throws it at them! Clearly, there’s remorse there! What does he do with that remorse, though? He despairs. We might suggest that he reasons that there’s no way that Jesus can forgive him. And, the only solution he comes up with is suicide. Does that appear to be sound, rational thought? Does his mind seem to be firing on all cylinders? Does it sound like classic depression with suicidal ideation? And, if so… can’t we conclude that it’s possible that his suicide was venial, rather than _mortal, sin?

(Add to that one additional consideration: as @ProdglArchitect notes, Scripture doesn’t tell us anything about the question of whether Judas repented in his final moments of life. If he did, then the whole question of “knowledge and consent” goes out the window – he could have repented and been forgiven before dying! So… to those who claim it’s (relatively) certain that Judas is in hell, we might ask, “umm… are you sure about that?” )

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I have a question about the state of soul of apostle Judas, is he in hell for all eternity,?is a council which said this? Or how we can see this thing?

As a couple people already said:
The Church has officially taught that we cannot know whether any particular soul is in Hell.
That means we don’t know what happened to Judas.

Any speculation on who is in Hell is just that, speculation. Not the official teaching of the Church.

 

[steph03]

No one knows (speaking about us here and now). Did he ask for forgiveness before dying as he was hung from the tree (assuming he did not die instantly)? No one in this life knows for sure.

 

[Gorgias]

Giving into despair is also a sin

Agreed. The question is whether it is mortal sin in a particular case. You’re no closer to proving your assertion by pointing out the sin of despair.

 

[Gorgias]

I just don’t see how the man who literally betrayed God, and handed him over to the Jews who have him crucified, and then proceeded to hang himself is anywhere but in hell.

I think I outlined two possibilities.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The worst sinner could potentially repent at the very last second before expiring and be granted mercy by God. It doesn’t matter if it’s Judas, Hitler, Stalin, Vlad the Impaler or whoever.

We simply don’t know if people repent or not.

 

[Genesis315]

I think Jesus’ statements are pretty conclusive.

Jesus outright tells us Judas is “lost” to Him and even calls him the “son of perdition.” (John 17:12)

He also says it would have been better for Judas that he had not been born (Matt. 26:24). Even if you suffer the worst purgatory until the end of time, if you enter beatitude at the end it is better than non-existence. Heaven is never worse than non-existence. Hell is.

There have been a couple odd theories here and there. Origen said Judas was contrite and hanged himself in order that his soul could meet Jesus to repent when Jesus descended into hell. St. Vincent Ferrer was accused by the Inquisition of preaching the same thing (except that Judas’s soul flew directly to Christ on Calvary), stating that the plan was successful and Judas was forgiven and taken by Christ to Heaven–but his friend, the anti-Pope Benedict XIII dismissed the case and burned the papers.

 

[Gorgias]

Jesus outright tells us Judas is “lost” to Him and even calls him the “son of perdition.” (John 17:12)

And he calls Peter “Satan”. Your point, then, is…?

He also says it would have been better for Judas that he had not been born (Matt. 26:24). Even if you suffer the worst purgatory until the end of time, if you enter beatitude at the end it is better than non-existence. Heaven is never worse than non-existence. Hell is.

Right. 'Cause, after all, Jesus never used hyperbole and other figures of speech, right?

 

[MaximilianK]

Hell is better than nonexistence, saints Augustine and Damascene said this

 

[Vico]

I have a question about the state of soul of apostle Judas, is he in hell for all eternity,?is a council which said this? Or how we can see this thing?

We do not make judgements but rely upon revelation. It is unknown if Judas repented before death.

John 13:18

I am not speaking of all of you. I know those whom I have chosen. But so that the scripture might be fulfilled, ‘The one who ate my food has raised his heel against me.’

John 17:12

When I was with them I protected them in your name that you gave me, and I guarded them, and none of them was lost except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9

This was to fulfill what he had said, “I have not lost any of those you gave me.”

Matthew 26:24

The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.”

Psalm 41:10

Even my trusted friend,
who ate my bread,
has raised his heel against me.

 

[Genesis315]

Peter did penance and Jesus specifically says none of the other Apostles are lost. I guess he could have been speaking hyperbolically in the other passage, but he seems to be speaking pretty straightforwardly about this grave topic and other matters of extreme importance in the surrounding verses.

 

[Genesis315]

Hell is better than nonexistence, saints Augustine and Damascene said this

Interesting–can you point me to their writings on the topic? In that case, “having never been born” cannot be said to be better than anything, but Jesus says it is.

St. Thomas addresses how Jesus words are still true:

Objection 3. Further, what is the more universal is prior in idea. But goodness seems to be more universal than being, since goodness has the aspect of desirable; whereas to some non-existence is desirable; for it is said of Judas: “It were better for him, if that man had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). Therefore in idea goodness is prior to being.

Reply to Objection 3. Non-being is desirable, not of itself, but only relatively—i.e. inasmuch as the removal of an evil, which can only be removed by non-being, is desirable. Now the removal of an evil cannot be desirable, except so far as this evil deprives a thing of some being. Therefore being is desirable of itself; and non-being only relatively, inasmuch as one seeks some mode of being of which one cannot bear to be deprived; thus even non-being can be spoken of as relatively good.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1005.htm