About Orthodoxy

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I have heard somewhere that if there is one religion closest to Catholicism, it’s Orthodoxy. And isn’t that some of the Eastern Catholic Churches that are now in full communion with Rome were once part of the Orthodox churches that separated in the Great Schism back in 1054 but they in turn separated from that Orthodox group and reunited with Rome? So what are the main differences in faith and doctrines of Catholicism and Orthodoxy?
 
Here are some articles that I hope will be able to help you,(I will admit to them being written from the Orthodox standpoint)

orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/inq_rc.aspx

from the Catholic viewpoint

catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp

The Eastern catholic churches did in fact, reunite with Rome after leaving Holy Orthodoxy, besides the Marionites i want to say, who always maintaned communion with Rome

as to the other points, others will touch on, or i shall from what i know in a couple days(im leavinf for a trip right now)
 
…So what are the main differences in faith and doctrines of Catholicism and Orthodoxy?
We were excommunicated for several reasons, filioque being the main theological difference. One of the reasons for our excommunication was that we “castrate our guests and raise them not only to priesthood, but to episcopacy”.
 
We were excommunicated for several reasons, filioque being the main theological difference. One of the reasons for our excommunication was that we “castrate our guests and raise them not only to priesthood, but to episcopacy”.
“We” who?
 
I have heard somewhere that if there is one religion closest to Catholicism, it’s Orthodoxy. And isn’t that some of the Eastern Catholic Churches that are now in full communion with Rome were once part of the Orthodox churches that separated in the Great Schism back in 1054 but they in turn separated from that Orthodox group and reunited with Rome? So what are the main differences in faith and doctrines of Catholicism and Orthodoxy?
This is a real can of worms, but I’ll cautiously make a short list.
  • The filioque: the Orthodox object to the interpolation of the filioque into the creed and also object to anything which might teach a double procession whereby the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son.
  • The use of unleavened bread in the Eucharist: this one is not really a big deal today, as most will see it as a matter of practice, not belief, but it was a difference which lead to the schism in 1054.
  • The doctrine of purgatory: it’s a medieval doctrine, and the Orthodox tend to reject it for several reasons; in general, the Orthodox do not feel the need for a doctrine to define what happens to us after death.
  • The doctrine of transubstantiation: the Orthodox don’t typically aim to explain the Real Presence of Christ in the consecrated bread and wine as the Catholics do; we simply say that the bread and wine is literally the flesh and blood of Christ and that the manner by which that change is effected is a mystery.
  • The Immaculate Conception: the Orthodox understanding of original sin is different from the catholic understanding in that the Orthodox view it as a state of being (we are born into a world which already has death and sin in it) rather than being an inheritance of guilt and stain; for this reason, the Orthodox find the immaculate conception to be unnecessary.
  • Papal claims to universal jurisdiction: the Orthodox do not believe that the pope has the right to directly interfere with the internal affairs of another autocephalous church.
  • The nature of Papal Primacy: the Pope’s primacy in the Catholic Church puts him well above the Magisterium in terms of authority; the Orthodox contend that, while the pope had a primacy, the primacy of the Pope never placed him above the authority of the Ecumenical Councils of the Church (a claim which is supported by how the first seven Ecumenical Councils dealt with the Popes).
  • Papal infallibility: this doctrine will impede any sort of Orthodox-Catholic reunion for years to come; the Orthodox cannot accept it in any form.
There are also several differences in practice which have come about through the ages, that, while they may not impede reunion, are probably things which will need to be discussed.
  • Confirmation of infants: the Orthodox Chrismate (Confirm) infants immediately after they are Baptized.
  • Communion for infants: the Orthodox also allow infants to partake of the Eucharist.
  • Fasting: The Orthodox fast in a much more strict fashion than the Roman Catholics do.
  • Eucharistic Ministers: only priests, in Orthodoxy, should be distributing the Eucharist.
  • Married priests and deacons: this one has been discussed, and it has been agreed that it’s simply a matter of discipline; nobody will really demand that the other change its discipline in order for reunion to happen.
That’s really about all of the differences which I can think of now.
 
This is a real can of worms, but I’ll cautiously make a short list.
  • The filioque: the Orthodox object to the interpolation of the filioque into the creed and also object to anything which might teach a double procession whereby the Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son.
  • The use of unleavened bread in the Eucharist: this one is not really a big deal today, as most will see it as a matter of practice, not belief, but it was a difference which lead to the schism in 1054.
  • The doctrine of purgatory: it’s a medieval doctrine, and the Orthodox tend to reject it for several reasons; in general, the Orthodox do not feel the need for a doctrine to define what happens to us after death.
  • The doctrine of transubstantiation: the Orthodox don’t typically aim to explain the Real Presence of Christ in the consecrated bread and wine as the Catholics do; we simply say that the bread and wine is literally the flesh and blood of Christ and that the manner by which that change is effected is a mystery.
  • The Immaculate Conception: the Orthodox understanding of original sin is different from the catholic understanding in that the Orthodox view it as a state of being (we are born into a world which already has death and sin in it) rather than being an inheritance of guilt and stain; for this reason, the Orthodox find the immaculate conception to be unnecessary.
  • Papal claims to universal jurisdiction: the Orthodox do not believe that the pope has the right to directly interfere with the internal affairs of another autocephalous church.
  • The nature of Papal Primacy: the Pope’s primacy in the Catholic Church puts him well above the Magisterium in terms of authority; the Orthodox contend that, while the pope had a primacy, the primacy of the Pope never placed him above the authority of the Ecumenical Councils of the Church (a claim which is supported by how the first seven Ecumenical Councils dealt with the Popes).
  • Papal infallibility: this doctrine will impede any sort of Orthodox-Catholic reunion for years to come; the Orthodox cannot accept it in any form.
There are also several differences in practice which have come about through the ages, that, while they may not impede reunion, are probably things which will need to be discussed.
  • Confirmation of infants: the Orthodox Chrismate (Confirm) infants immediately after they are Baptized.
  • Communion for infants: the Orthodox also allow infants to partake of the Eucharist.
  • Fasting: The Orthodox fast in a much more strict fashion than the Roman Catholics do.
  • Eucharistic Ministers: only priests, in Orthodoxy, should be distributing the Eucharist.
  • Married priests and deacons: this one has been discussed, and it has been agreed that it’s simply a matter of discipline; nobody will really demand that the other change its discipline in order for reunion to happen.
That’s really about all of the differences which I can think of now.
Good list, but you forgot a big one: the Orthodox do not automatically declare a council to be “ecumenical”; a council becomes recognized as ecumenical over time, as the Church sees that its teachings are orthodox.
 
Another thing. Given that Orthodoxy was born out of its separation from Rome (or vice versa probably, as they view it), do Orthodox bishops/clergy have apostolic succession and therefore have valid sacraments? After all, Orthodox clergy today come from the original validly ordained bishops with apostolic succession back in the 11th century, right?
 
Another thing. Given that Orthodoxy was born out of its separation from Rome (or vice versa probably, as they view it), do Orthodox bishops/clergy have apostolic succession and therefore have valid sacraments? After all, Orthodox clergy today come from the original validly ordained bishops with apostolic succession back in the 11th century, right?
Not only validity but valid jurisdiction, albeit jurisdiction in schism.
 
Another thing. Given that Orthodoxy was born out of its separation from Rome (or vice versa probably, as they view it), do Orthodox bishops/clergy have apostolic succession and therefore have valid sacraments? After all, Orthodox clergy today come from the original validly ordained bishops with apostolic succession back in the 11th century, right?
Orthodoxy, or the Eastern Orthodox Churches, were NOT born out of the schism. They preexisted the schism just as the Church of Rome did. The Church of Rome recognizes that the Orthodox Churches have apostolic succession, validly ordained bishops and priests, and therefore also a valid Eucharist.
 
This is a real can of worms, but I’ll cautiously make a short list.

There are also several differences in practice which have come about through the ages, that, while they may not impede reunion, are probably things which will need to be discussed.
  • Confirmation of infants: the Orthodox Chrismate (Confirm) infants immediately after they are Baptized.
  • Communion for infants: the Orthodox also allow infants to partake of the Eucharist.
  • Fasting: The Orthodox fast in a much more strict fashion than the Roman Catholics do.
  • Eucharistic Ministers: only priests, in Orthodoxy, should be distributing the Eucharist.
  • Married priests and deacons: this one has been discussed, and it has been agreed that it’s simply a matter of discipline; nobody will really demand that the other change its discipline in order for reunion to happen.
That’s really about all of the differences which I can think of now.
Cavaradossi, I just wanted to point out that this part of your list applies to Roman Catholics, but not to us Eastern (Byzantine) Catholics. We also chrismate and commune infants, fast as the Orthodox do, have no lay “Eucharistic Ministers”, and do have married priests and deacons.
 
The recent Orientale Lumen Conference “Rome and the Communion of Churches: Bishop, Patriarch or Pope?” explored this main obstacle to union. For Catholics the position of some Orthodox on divorce and remarriage, and on contraception are considered major obstacles to union.

You can read some of the 25 agreed statements on various topics between Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of America (SCOBA) and USCCB and the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops here.
 
*]Eucharistic Ministers: only priests, in Orthodoxy, should be distributing the Eucharist.
In Holy Orthodoxy deacons also may distribute Holy Eucharist, at least in the Russian and Antiochian Orthodox Churches. I’ve been present when it occurred during Liturgy with large numbers of the faithful and one priest.

The correct term in the Latin Church for what I assume you are referring to is “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion”. The only minister of the Eucharist is a bishop, presbyter, or deacon. (Can. 910 §1) He is therefore the Ordinary minister. In the Ordinary Form of the Latin Mass, the more frequently celebrated Holy Mass these days, the deacon is the proper minister of the chalice if Holy Communion is administered under both species. It’s still uncommon for a parish to have a deacon although the re-instituted permanent deaconate of the Latin Church is flourishing in the United States so more parishes of the Latin Church are enjoying the presence again of deacons.
Can. 910 §1. The ordinary minister of holy communion is a bishop, presbyter, or deacon.§2. The extraordinary minister of holy communion is an acolyte or another member of the Christian faithful designated according to the norm of ⇒ can. 230, §3.
An instituted acolyte (usually a seminarian) is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion by virtue of his institution. The local bishop may delegate other lay Catholics for this function either for a single occasion or for a specified period of time, if there are reasons of real necessity. The commissioning need not take a liturgical form, but an appropriate blessing, which should in no way resemble ordination, may be imparted. In special cases of an unforeseen nature, the priest celebrating Mass may grant permission for a single occasion. Redemptionis sacramentum, 155
Can. 230 §3. When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law.
In the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, often erroneously called the “Latin Mass”, sometimes called the Tridentine Mass, only the priest may administer Holy Communion.
Code of Canons of the Oriental Churches Canon 709 §1. The priest distributes the Divine Eucharist or if the particular law of his own Church sui iuris establishes it, also the deacon. §2. The synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church or the council of hierarchs is free to establish appropriate norms, according to which other Christian faithful can distribute the Divine Eucharist.
Apparently a synod of bishops or council of hierarchs of a self governing Eastern Church can establish norms for the lay faithful to distribute Holy Eucharist. I’m not aware of this having happened.
 
Cavaradossi, I just wanted to point out that this part of your list applies to Roman Catholics, but not to us Eastern (Byzantine) Catholics. We also chrismate and commune infants, fast as the Orthodox do, have no lay “Eucharistic Ministers”, and do have married priests and deacons.
We also do not recite the Filioque, and depending on the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Church sui iuris, and as far as I know all Byzantine/Greek Catholics, we have leavened bread for Holy Eucharist. The theology of Greek Catholics is similar to Holy Orthodoxy as far as Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception. Like the Orthodox we in the ECCs/OCCs of course did not encounter the problems raised in the West by the Reformation and Counter Reformation.
 
Cavaradossi, I just wanted to point out that this part of your list applies to Roman Catholics, but not to us Eastern (Byzantine) Catholics. We also chrismate and commune infants, fast as the Orthodox do, have no lay “Eucharistic Ministers”, and do have married priests and deacons.
Yes, thank you for catching that. Although I neglected to mention that in my post, I meant only to contrast with the Roman Catholics. I am aware that Eastern Catholics are aligned with the Eastern Orthodox in terms of practice. 🙂
 
Yes, thank you for catching that. Although I neglected to mention that in my post, I meant only to contrast with the Roman Catholics. I am aware that Eastern Catholics are aligned with the Eastern Orthodox in terms of practice. 🙂
Except the practice of being in communion with the Pope.😉
 
Orthodoxy, or the Eastern Orthodox Churches, were NOT born out of the schism. They preexisted the schism just as the Church of Rome did. The Church of Rome recognizes that the Orthodox Churches have apostolic succession, validly ordained bishops and priests, and therefore also a valid Eucharist.
Yes, I understand that. These Orthodox Churches did predate the schism but of course they saw themselves as separate from the Roman Church after the split instead of being fully united. Thank you.
 
The differences between the two churches are as much POLITICAL as they are theological.

It all began because the Greek oriented Roman Empire was based in Constantinople, and essentially abandoned Rome, even though they still called themselves ROMANS. They were “The Roman Empire”, but relegated Rome to a backwater existence and essentially attempted to totally ignore it.

In the East, they not only ad the complete and full support of the “Civilian” government, but the Emperor virtually controlled who the leaders of the Church were. In fact, on more than one occasion, the Emperor deposed the Patriarch, and appointed another in his place.

In the West, the Bishop of Rome was the Church Power, and he appointed Emperors and Kings. This led to the Bishop of Rome becoming both a religious AND a civil power, something that the East never experienced.

The Filoque was an EXCUSE, as the articles cited above make very clear. The East ignored it for centuries, and only brought it up when a Cardinal excommunicated the Patriarch. After that, it essentially became the single most important issue.

Both sides could EASILY settle all of this, if they would agree to a true Ecumenical Council, to thrash out the various disagreements. But, neither will give an inch, instead calling the other side stubborn, and the East calling the West apostate (which the West no longer says about the East by the way).

The article (there was a citation to a series of articles from the Orthodox perspective listed above) about the Uniate Churches in Russia was a much more typical attack from the Orthodox than was the very well reasoned article for Roman Catholics. It attacked all Uniates as heretics, essentially said that all Uniates that were forced into Russian Orthodoxy by the Soviets should never be allowed to become one with the Catholic Church again, and that the Roman Catholic Church is nothing but evil incarnate (and that Pope John Paul II was essentially nothing more than an agent of the devil).

That kind of unreasoned bilge is, sadly, all too typical of Orthodox writers. There have no desire at all to EVER reunite. In fact, they would love to see the Catholic Church utterly destroyed, all of its doctrines confined to history and everyone that has ever supported that church to be condemned to hell.

It is sad indeed that a site that presents Orthodoxy so very well in its article directed at Roman Catholics, would also place such an unreasoned and hate filled article among its canon. BUT, that hate filled article represents the actual feelings and beliefs of all too many Orthodox, and it shows just why the vast majority of Orthodox will never consider any form of reunion.

One can only believe that Jesus must weep indeed that the successors of his apostles had led their “branches” of the church he established so very far apart.

It is those leaders, the ones that merely see evil in their “opponents”, that are truly doing the work of Satan.

Sadly, there are some of those types on BOTH sides of this issue. But, the majority appear to be on the Orthodox side, and they are unwilling to bend even to the slightest degree. It is, to use a modern expression, “Either their way or the highway”.

With such people, compromise is impossible, because THEY will NOT allow it. They do not care about God, they care about themselves. They care about their “position”, and NOT at all for what the Holy Spirit is trying to do.

And anyone, either Orthodox or Catholic that holds such a position is truly doing Satan’s work on this earth.

It is about time that both sides bend a bit, both sides agree to call a binding ecumenical council to thrash out the ‘THEOLOGICAL DIFFERENCES", and once again bring the Universal Church into being as God willed it to be. Stop letting the petty quarrels of man prevent the majesty of God’ church from being.
 
*]Eucharistic Ministers: only priests, in Orthodoxy, should be distributing the Eucharist.
I know that was geared towards Orthodox and not Eastern Catholics, but at the one BCC I attend, almost every liturgy had the priest and one other distributing Communion (once, there was a second non-priest distributing when it was packed). When the priests were moved around by the Bishop, I noticed the new priest stopped that practice and he is the only one now to distribute Communion. I’m not sure who was right from a BCC point-of-view, but I have seen non-priests/non-deacons give out Communion. Does anyone know if the BCC is actually allowed someone other than priest/deacon distributing Communion?
 
Dear The Old Medic:

The points you make are mostly sound and I mostly agree, just one little squabble:
…Sadly, there are some of those types on BOTH sides of this issue. But, the majority appear to be on the Orthodox side, and they are unwilling to bend even to the slightest degree. It is, to use a modern expression, “Either their way or the highway”…
Perhaps you should define “majority”. If you mean as a percentage of all Orthodox vs a percentage of all Catholics then perhaps you may be right. But there are considerably more Catholics (by count) then there are Orthodox. If you contrast by actual count I bet you that those who are of the Absolutist Petrine view within the Roman Church outnumber the ultra-conservative Orthodox.

I used to be among the ultra-conservative Orthodox and I can assure you that those who are of this mindset among the Orthodox will, if they persist, end up going into schism from the canonical Orthodox jurisdictions and even in schism from each other. You see it will never be enough for them to condemn Rome ONLY, they will find excuses to condemn their own hierarchs as heretics too and separate themselves from the Church. This is why they will not be a strong enough influence among the Orthodox to prevent a union with the West.

On the other hand, I wonder if the influence of the Absolutist in the Church of the Romans will ever end unless the Pope clearly speaks authoritatively against this false view. 🤷
 
…They care about their “position”, and NOT at all for what the Holy Spirit is trying to do.

Which Holy Spirit? The one whom proceeds from the Father, or the one whom proceeds from the Father and Son?
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JohnVIII:
I used to be among the ultra-conservative Orthodox and I can assure you that those who are of this mindset among the Orthodox will, if they persist, end up going into schism from the canonical Orthodox jurisdictions and even in schism from each other.
Strange. The history after 1439 shows something completely different than your expertise.
 
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