About Prayers

[jasphair]

Greetings,

As someone with growing interest in Catholicism, and previously of a Protestant background, I’m confused as to how exactly prayers directed towards Mary, Saints, or Angels (e.g. Gabriel) work. It’s a common belief among Protestant churches that I’ve attended that Catholics *worship *Saints, and worship Mary. I’ve completely dismissed this idea, however, as after talking to many Catholics in person, and also reading over discussions on this forum, this just doesn’t seem to be the case. When I mentioned my findings to my Protestant bretheren, they simply ceased their accusiations (around me, anyways), unable to respond to the facts I had brought them. They (Protestants) seem to be generally misinformed, and in many cases, knowledge on Catholicism is purely based on word of mouth and things heard, but not researched or experienced. I’ve learned more about Catholicism over the last month or so, than I’ve ever learned my entire life, and am loving it, as a result.

Anywho, back on topic. I realize that Catholics do not worship anyone but Jesus, just as He commanded. When I see a prayer directed towards Mary or a Saint, however, I am uncertain as to how it is to be spoken. I’m so accustomed to praying to God, or Jesus (I use them interchangeably), and the thought of starting a prayer with “Dear Mary” or what have you, seems a bit strange, though perhaps that’s normal for people of similar background as myself. Do you actually begin prayer directly to Mary or the Saint or Angel, or are you supposed to bring that individual up in prayer through Jesus, such as "Dear Jesus, please help me to be like Saint ", or “Dear Jesus, I ask that Mary the Mother of God help me with .”

I’m sorry for the very newbie question. I just want to make sure I’m understanding (and following through) with these things correctly.

 

[wmscott]

Greetings,

As someone with growing interest in Catholicism, and previously of a Protestant background, I’m confused as to how exactly prayers directed towards Mary, Saints, or Angels (e.g. Gabriel) work. It’s a common belief among Protestant churches that I’ve attended that Catholics *worship *Saints, and worship Mary. I’ve completely dismissed this idea, however, as after talking to many Catholics in person, and also reading over discussions on this forum, this just doesn’t seem to be the case. When I mentioned my findings to my Protestant bretheren, they simply ceased their accusiations (around me, anyways), unable to respond to the facts I had brought them. They (Protestants) seem to be generally misinformed, and in many cases, knowledge on Catholicism is purely based on word of mouth and things heard, but not researched or experienced. I’ve learned more about Catholicism over the last month or so, than I’ve ever learned my entire life, and am loving it, as a result.

Anywho, back on topic. I realize that Catholics do not worship anyone but Jesus, just as He commanded. When I see a prayer directed towards Mary or a Saint, however, I am uncertain as to how it is to be spoken. I’m so accustomed to praying to God, or Jesus (I use them interchangeably), and the thought of starting a prayer with “Dear Mary” or what have you, seems a bit strange, though perhaps that’s normal for people of similar background as myself. Do you actually begin prayer directly to Mary or the Saint or Angel, or are you supposed to bring that individual up in prayer through Jesus, such as "Dear Jesus, please help me to be like Saint ", or “Dear Jesus, I ask that Mary the Mother of God help me with .”

I’m sorry for the very newbie question. I just want to make sure I’m understanding (and following through) with these things correctly.

First off, please do not be apologetic in asking questions, this is how we learn. As a short answer… As a Protestant have you ever asked a friend to pray for you to God? I am confident that you have. The same concept is at work here, we ask the Blessed Mother and the Saints to pray for us to God. We are not expecting them to be the final authority in answering our prayers, they are just praying to God with us. This is call intersession. Here is a location that will give you some very detailed information. I hope this helps.

 

[davidv]

As a prerequisite to discussing this further, may I suggest the you read the introductory section to Part 4 (Christian Prayer) in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is essential that one understand what the Catholic Church defines as prayer in order to understand how that Saints are included in our prayer life.

 

[cazayoux]

I think part of the confusion many non-Catholic Christians have is with the word ‘pray’ itself.
This word means to ask of.

From Shrek:
“I pray thee take this favor as a token of my affection.”, says Fiona

She is asking for someone to accept a handkerchief.
‘pray’ just means ask.

Today, however, we say that we only pray to God.
Here, the connotation is that pray = worship.
However, ‘pray’ and ‘worship’ are two different things.

Realize that when Catholics pray to Mary or the Saints it is to ask them to pray with us to God.

We are asking something of Mary and the Saints, and as you recognize already, not worshiping them.
All Mary and the Saints can do for us COMES FROM God.
They only even hear us because God allows them to.

Know that by asking them to help you, you ARE recognizing a powerful, loving God that gives you every avenue to come to Him.

michel

 

[jasphair]

First off, please do not be apologetic in asking questions, this is how we learn. As a short answer… As a Protestant have you ever asked a friend to pray for you to God? I am confident that you have. The same concept is at work here, we ask the Blessed Mother and the Saints to pray for us to God. We are not expecting them to be the final authority in answering our prayers, they are just praying to God with us. This is call intersession. Here is a location that will give you some very detailed information. I hope this helps.

Hi wmscott,

Thank you for the reassurance. I understand better now thanks to your explanation. Yes, I often times ask people to pray for me, so I can see how prayers to Saints and whatnot can be similar, though obviously the main difference being those individuals are no longer with us here on Earth, but in Heaven.

As a prerequisite to discussing this further, may I suggest the you read the introductory section to Part 4 (Christian Prayer) in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is essential that one understand what the Catholic Church defines as prayer in order to understand how that Saints are included in our prayer life.

Hi davidv,

I’ve read through the link you mentioned, and found it to be helpful! I noticed one thing, however. It doesn’t seem to make any mention towards prayer to Saints. I was a bit surprised by this, though I’m sure that aspect is mentioned elsewhere in the Catechism, right?

I think part of the confusion many non-Catholic Christians have is with the word ‘pray’ itself.
This word means to ask of.

From Shrek:
“I pray thee take this favor as a token of my affection.”, says Fiona

She is asking for someone to accept a handkerchief.
‘pray’ just means ask.

Today, however, we say that we only pray to God.
Here, the connotation is that pray = worship.
However, ‘pray’ and ‘worship’ are two different things.

Realize that when Catholics pray to Mary or the Saints it is to ask them to pray with us to God.

We are asking something of Mary and the Saints, and as you recognize already, not worshiping them.
All Mary and the Saints can do for us COMES FROM God.
They only even hear us because God allows them to.

Know that by asking them to help you, you ARE recognizing a powerful, loving God that gives you every avenue to come to Him.

michel

Hi michel,

I loved the Shrek reference! That’s an interesting way to think of prayer, and I’ve never thought of it that way before. I’ve always associated prayer with ‘worship’, but I guess that’s not always the case.

 

[wmscott]

Hi wmscott,

Thank you for the reassurance. I understand better now thanks to your explanation. Yes, I often times ask people to pray for me, so I can see how prayers to Saints and whatnot can be similar, though obviously the main difference being those individuals are no longer with us here on Earth, but in Heaven.

Hi davidv,

I’ve read through the link you mentioned, and found it to be helpful! I noticed one thing, however. It doesn’t seem to make any mention towards prayer to Saints. I was a bit surprised by this, though I’m sure that aspect is mentioned elsewhere in the Catechism, right?

Hi michel,

I loved the Shrek reference! That’s an interesting way to think of prayer, and I’ve never thought of it that way before. I’ve always associated prayer with ‘worship’, but I guess that’s not always the case.

And the improtant thing is, becasue the Blessed Mother and the Saints are in Heaven, they are alive in Christ. As God hears our prayers, so to does the Blessed Mother and Saints hear them and pray to the Lord for us also.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Greetings,

As someone with growing interest in Catholicism, and previously of a Protestant background, I’m confused as to how exactly prayers directed towards Mary, Saints, or Angels (e.g. Gabriel) work. It’s a common belief among Protestant churches that I’ve attended that Catholics *worship *Saints, and worship Mary. I’ve completely dismissed this idea, however, as after talking to many Catholics in person, and also reading over discussions on this forum, this just doesn’t seem to be the case. When I mentioned my findings to my Protestant bretheren, they simply ceased their accusiations (around me, anyways), unable to respond to the facts I had brought them. They (Protestants) seem to be generally misinformed, and in many cases, knowledge on Catholicism is purely based on word of mouth and things heard, but not researched or experienced. I’ve learned more about Catholicism over the last month or so, than I’ve ever learned my entire life, and am loving it, as a result.

Anywho, back on topic. I realize that Catholics do not worship anyone but Jesus, just as He commanded. When I see a prayer directed towards Mary or a Saint, however, I am uncertain as to how it is to be spoken. I’m so accustomed to praying to God, or Jesus (I use them interchangeably), and the thought of starting a prayer with “Dear Mary” or what have you, seems a bit strange, though perhaps that’s normal for people of similar background as myself. Do you actually begin prayer directly to Mary or the Saint or Angel, or are you supposed to bring that individual up in prayer through Jesus, such as "Dear Jesus, please help me to be like Saint ", or “Dear Jesus, I ask that Mary the Mother of God help me with .”

I’m sorry for the very newbie question. I just want to make sure I’m understanding (and following through) with these things correctly.

These passages of such indicate the need for the intercession of Saints when needed. Tobias 13:12-15, Apocalypse 5:8, 8:3-4 and Job 5:1

From the Haydock Bible Commentary

Tobias 13:12-15

Ver. 12. Call. Greek, “cause thy captives to rejoice in thee, and love in thee all the distressed unto eternity.”

Ver. 13. Thou. Greek, “Many nations from afar shall come to the name of the Lord God, with presents in their hands, presents for the king of heaven; race after race shall praise thee, and give exultation. They,” &c., ver. 16. (Haydock) — How many potent monarchs of Persia, Egypt, Rome, &c., honoured the temple of Jerusalem! How many wars have been carried on by Christian potentates, to rescue that favourite spot out of the hands of infidels! all out of respect for Christ. These priests are still better verified in his Church, to which the powers of the earth have submitted, (Calmet) esteeming it an honour and happiness to be members of this holy society. (Haydock)

Ver. 14. Holy. This soil has been carried into distant countries, out of reverence, (4 Kings v. 17.; St. Augustine, City of God xxii.8.) and has been honoured with miracles. (St. Gregory Turon. i. 7.)

Job 5:1

Ver. 1. Saints. This is a proof of the invocation of the saints (Calmet) and angels. (Haydock) — The Jews often begged God to have mercy on them for the sake of the patriarchs, 2 Paralipomenon vi. 42. (Calmet) — Eliphaz, therefore, exhorts Job, if he have any patron or angel, to bring him forward in his defence. (Menochius) — Septuagint, “Invoke now if any one will hear thee, or if thou perceive any of the holy angels,” (Haydock) as I have done. (Menochius) — He extols himself, to correct the pretended presumption of his friend, (Calmet) and other defects, which none will dare to deny, as he supposes. See St. Gregory, v. 30. (Worthington)

part 1

 

[tobinatorstark]

part 2

Apocalypse 5:8

Ver. 7-8. He…took the book,[3]…and when he had opened it, or was about to open it, (in the Greek is only, he took it: which was a sign that he would open it)…the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, to adore him, as appears by what follows, ver. 13. — Having every one of them harps to celebrate his praise, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of the saints: which shews that the saints in heaven offer up before the throne of the Divine Majesty the prayers of the faithful. (Witham) — Harps, &c. These harps are symbols of the praise which good men render to God; and the vials full of odours represent the prayers of the saints. In conformity with this idea, St. John wishes to represent these four and twenty ancients as so many senators, who present to the Almighty the prayers and homages of good men on earth. (Estius; Clement of Alexandria) — This also is an imitation of what was practised in the temple, in which were always around the altar, in times of sacrifice, Levites with musical instruments, priests with vials to contain the wine and blood, and censers to hold the incense (Calmet) — The prayers of the saints. Here we see that the saints in heaven offer up to Christ the prayers of the faithful upon earth. (Challoner)

Apocalypse 8:3-4

Ver. 3. Stood before the altar, having a golden censer. In the visions is an allusion to the tabernacle and its parts. The altar of perfumes was in the sanctum[the holy place], hard by the entrance into the sanctum sanctorum[the holy of holies], and here the golden altar is said to be before the throne of God. The incense from the censer is said to be the prayers of all the Saints, which the Angel offered up. The altar seems to signify our Saviour Christ, as the prayers of all the faithful are always made through the merits of Christ, our only chief Mediator or Redeemer. By the fire cast upon the earth, (ver. 5.) is signified the fire of divine charity, now to be exercised by the ways of justice, to draw persons to their conversion by punishments. (Witham) — We may observe both in this and other places of the Apocalypse, that St. John makes continual allusions to what was done in the temple of Jerusalem, for which he gives us symbolical reasons. Thus on the present occasion, the incense which was offered morning and evening in the temple, on the golden altar, is represented as done here in heaven. (Calmet)

 

[davidv]

Hi wmscott,

Thank you for the reassurance. I understand better now thanks to your explanation. Yes, I often times ask people to pray for me, so I can see how prayers to Saints and whatnot can be similar, though obviously the main difference being those individuals are no longer with us here on Earth, but in Heaven.

Hi davidv,

I’ve read through the link you mentioned, and found it to be helpful! I noticed one thing, however. It doesn’t seem to make any mention towards prayer to Saints. I was a bit surprised by this, though I’m sure that aspect is mentioned elsewhere in the Catechism, right?

Hi michel,

I loved the Shrek reference! That’s an interesting way to think of prayer, and I’ve never thought of it that way before. I’ve always associated prayer with ‘worship’, but I guess that’s not always the case.

I’m glad the CCC reference was of some help. Here a more specific treatment of prayer related to the Saints starting at article 2683.