About software piracy

[chaz0426]

Hi Spiritbound,

Thanks for your reply. You’re right about many “2048 wrongs don’t make a right”.
But I think in my situation things aren’t as black and white.

I can’t afford to go to animation schools, so I’m trying to learn the software at home, when I was unemployed for a long time,due to the studio which I was working for closed. A friend provided me a copy of the software for the purpose of learning it. Actually, almost everyone I was working with have a copy of the software, because everyone needs to learn this new technology as the type of work we did was being phase-out .

Out of necessity and survival, I didn’t think it was wrong at the time. But have been thinking about this issue recently, now that I’ve recommitted myself to be faithful to our Lord. I’m now employed, and within this industry, using copyrighted material for research, reference and learning purposes still persists and tolerated.

Recently, at work, we were given a movie material that was copied from an unavailable imported DVD , for the purpose of learning the style of animation of one of the characters, which we are also going to be doing. If I watch this movie, will I be sinning, even if I wasn’t the one who copied this movie? How about all the PDF files that is passed around the industry also as reference materials. Is having copies of such also means I’ve stolen them too?:manvspc:

Hopefully, they’ll be somebody in this forum who can enlightened me in these matters. Thanks. God bless.

I’m in the same boat but in a different field of IT. I have to use a lot of Microsoft systems to learn for school and a lot of it is very expensive and I can’t afford. Sometimes if your lucky the school will give you a free legal copy but not in many cases. I think if you use it only for educational and not commercial your in the clear.

Joscat08 you didn’t do anything wrong morally or sinfully as long as you are honest in saying you didn’t distribute it. That is where the real harm is done is if you distribute it to thousands of other people and really what copyright claimers are after.

At the end of the day, making a copy of some digital 1’s and 0’s contrary to popular opinion is in fact not stealing. If you deleted or destroyed the original file or “moved” the file in the process then that would be stealing. There is a big difference between copying and stealing. If I drove by your house and saw a statue or picture I really liked and took a picture of it with my digital camera and put it in my pictures folder, is that stealing? Most would say not. But that is the same concept with copying a file with 1’s and 0’s. It’s not the same as if I went and took the statue or picture from your home or yard and put it in mine because I liked it, that would be stealing as you don’t have those items anymore and are at a loss.

To add on top of that, lets say I didn’t have a camera but I went and asked your permission to “borrow” those items for a day and promptly returned them, such is like file sharing as the owner of those files are willingly “sharing” with others. They aren’t being used off their systems unknowingly without their permission or they wouldn’t have been copied.

That is how I understand it. As technology further grows, I’d say if it someday becomes possible to use those files or listen to those music files from the system of the owner of those files via a live stream, there is not even copying taking place. You would just connect to the system and use the software or listen to music or a movie as if you were actually sitting in front of their system. You don’t have a “copy” of the file when you disconnect. That would not violate copyright in one bit as it is like letting my friend listen to one of my legally bought CD’s on my own sound system at my own home.

If such technology ever comes around or some idea similar, I guarantee you there will be quite a battle over that as well, and people will cry “stealing” or “piracy” and so forth when it really is not.

nydailynews.com/money/2009/07/31/2009-07-31_court_orders_boston_university_student_joel_tenenbaum_to_pay_675g_for_illegally_.html

Just an example of what is the real motive behind the outcries …money for their mansions, $100,000 cars and boats.

Does that sound just to you or anyone on here? Not to me. This guy who is basically just a few years older than me or you fresh out of college is ruined when the real damages if anything were less than $100. He will not be able to pay those outrageous fines and not be bankrup for the rest of his life unless he wins the lottery.

I thought our own constitution defended against cruel and unusual punishment. If in that situation I’d rather die and distribute all of my physical possessions and money I have to the poor in Africa than give even a dime to greedy music labels who are the real ones who hurt the artists.

The artists who they claim really hurt, how much are they seeing out of these court settlements? Zip…not a dime.

Why give anything to these crooks.

 

[chaz0426]

Lol I forgot I already visited this thread several weeks ago

 

[Spirithound]

At the end of the day, making a copy of some digital 1’s and 0’s contrary to popular opinion is in fact not stealing.
…
If I drove by your house and saw a statue or picture I really liked and took a picture of it with my digital camera and put it in my pictures folder, is that stealing?
…
To add on top of that, lets say I didn’t have a camera but I went and asked your permission to “borrow” those items for a day and promptly returned them, such is like file sharing as the owner of those files are willingly “sharing” with others.

Three questions:

1. Are the digital 1’s and 0’s being offered for purchase by some vendor?

If something is offered for purchase, and you opt to circumvent that, you are stealing.

1. Does the photograph that you took constitute “original artwork”? (definition to be worked out in ensuing discussion)

If your photograph is not “original artwork”, then you are violating copyright, and you are stealing.

1. Can two people use the camera at the same time?

It is possible for the “lender” and the “borrower” to both listen to the song at the same time, in different locations. Compare that to the camera, where if one person is using it, the other is not.

 

[Spirithound]

Just an example of what is the real motive behind the outcries …money for their mansions, $100,000 cars and boats.

Does that sound just to you or anyone on here? Not to me. This guy who is basically just a few years older than me or you fresh out of college is ruined when the real damages if anything were less than $100. He will not be able to pay those outrageous fines and not be bankrup for the rest of his life unless he wins the lottery.

I thought our own constitution defended against cruel and unusual punishment. If in that situation I’d rather die and distribute all of my physical possessions and money I have to the poor in Africa than give even a dime to greedy music labels who are the real ones who hurt the artists.

The artists who they claim really hurt, how much are they seeing out of these court settlements? Zip…not a dime.

Why give anything to these crooks.

Your justification here is terrible. It’s so easy to wrong someone when we call them a crook, or a faceless corporation, or say that they expect to be stolen from anyways, or assume the title of Robin Hood ourselves by railing against the wealth and property of others. But they are people, and when we take music without paying for it, we are hurting them, in some amount. It does no good to say “oh well, I’m in the 1% that they plan to lose anyways.” Who gave you permission to put yourself into that 1%? Do you have 99 other people lined up willing to offset your costs? If you are truly disgusted by their wealth, then don’t give them money. But if you don’t give them money, then you have no right to enjoy their product.

You could have a good point in invoking the cruel and unusual punishment clause, I’m not a constitutional expert, but it’s a red herring anyways. If the music industry is behaving badly, it does not give us the right to download songs.

 

[Glenn77]

…OpenOffice–does everything MS Word does, but better.

Careful… “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness…”

OpenOffice is great, but it doesn’t have many of the advanced features, and there are alignment issues when you go between OpenOffice and Word. That said, it is excellent, and what I now use on my home computers as I refuse to use unlicensed software.

 

[tangadsangig]

Isn’t file-sharing sharing? Whatever happened to sharing your blessings?
What if I had a licensed copy and I shared it to someone else?

I see there’s no absolute right or wrong here. God doesn’t think like man does. He knows the heart of every person and only He has the right to judgement. Only He knows what’s equal, only He knows how much they profit and compute them all into right or wrong. Why not leave it to God and just pray hard that everything we do here on earth is according to His plan. Surely, He’ll lead us to the right path, decision.

 

[Spirithound]

Isn’t file-sharing sharing? Whatever happened to sharing your blessings?

In your lexicon, it seems so. The record and software companies call it piracy.

What if I had a licensed copy and I shared it to someone else?

I see there’s no absolute right or wrong here. God doesn’t think like man does. He knows the heart of every person and only He has the right to judgement. Only He knows what’s equal, only He knows how much they profit and compute them all into right or wrong. Why not leave it to God and just pray hard that everything we do here on earth is according to His plan. Surely, He’ll lead us to the right path, decision.

Why not discuss it and see if we can all come up with the right decision?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think it really depends on where you live. If you live in a third world, technological sinkhole like I do, chances are you will actually be forced to buy pirated if you wanna live here with a computer. Every internet cafe in the city here makes use of pirated games. Students in need of even just a decent photo or movie editor for their projects will definitely go get a pirated Photoshop installer. You can see pirated PC games and software sold even in the malls (and these are places the middle-class people go. Original licensed copies of anything barely exist in this place.

On the other hand, if you live in a country like the U.S. where such software can be easily found locally and the price is not jacked up by bad shipping deals (thus, making them quite affordable), I suggest you obey the law. One thing, they reinforce it way more effectively than they do here and have sufficient grounds to do so.

 

[terminated007]

Software “piracy” is no sin. You get no guarantee that buying a software will work in the first place.

 

[lufty]

Software “piracy” is no sin. You get no guarantee that buying a software will work in the first place.

I disagree. Let’s say for example, you are interested in Adobe Photoshop CS4. You take a look at the trial, it fits your needs, but the $3000 pricetag is just “too much.”

So you torrent the entire program, crack it, and presto! You got yourself a “free” copy of the software you wanted. How can that NOT be stealing?

It’s stealing my friend, plain and simple. Regardless of what country you are in.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It’s stealing my friend, plain and simple. Regardless of what country you are in.

Actually no, you’re not taking anything which is the definition of stealing (and no, “potential bucks” don’t count). Many companies don’t even allow local production of their products in certain countries they’re too chicken or too pompous to invest in. The result is an unfair importation deal that jacks up the prices. It’d be one thing to pirate something you can easily buy since it’s made locally but since a majority of software in this country comes from outside sources, piracy becomes their only affordable access to it.

 

[lufty]

Actually no, you’re not taking anything which is the definition of stealing (and no, “potential bucks” don’t count). Many companies don’t even allow local production of their products in certain countries they’re too chicken or too pompous to invest in. The result is an unfair importation deal that jacks up the prices. It’d be one thing to pirate something you can easily buy since it’s made locally but since a majority of software in this country comes from outside sources, piracy becomes their only affordable access to it.

Can you give me an example of a software title or suite that is not available to you, based on your geographic location, and that the only method of obtaining that SW is to torrent it or purchase an illegal copy?

 

[terminated007]

I disagree. Let’s say for example, you are interested in Adobe Photoshop CS4. You take a look at the trial, it fits your needs, but the $3000 pricetag is just “too much.”

So you torrent the entire program, crack it, and presto! You got yourself a “free” copy of the software you wanted. How can that NOT be stealing?

It’s stealing my friend, plain and simple. Regardless of what country you are in.

I know a friend who has been having problems running Adobe Flash CS4 on Windows 7. Imagine buying that kind of stuff and it doesn’t work.

Lets think of the so many incompatibility problems associated with Windows Vista. Imagine what software buyers went through.

Not all trial versions provide you with the complete functionalities that can guarantee you that the original product will work. A good example is a data recovery software. You wouldn’t the functionality to retrieve any data and hence there is no guarantee that the stuff will work. I have tried out many of such things man.

Lets be clear here. File sharers believe that if someone buys a product, he has the right to do anything with that product. Period.

And those who even rely on file sharing and those who can do without. So in the end, its not as if the manufacturer is losing anything (for me).

Regardless of what country you are in.

Poor you.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Can you give me an example of a software title or suite that is not available to you, based on your geographic location, and that the only method of obtaining that SW is to torrent it or purchase an illegal copy?

Photoshop is one primary example. Oh and yeah, just because you can ship it overseas does not make it “available”, it makes it imported and in this country, imported=high-priced social status symbol.

 

[terminated007]

Can you give me an example of a software title or suite that is not available to you, based on your geographic location, and that the only method of obtaining that SW is to torrent it or purchase an illegal copy?

Yes. Most people in third world countries don’t have access to DVDs. They can’t even pay for them anyway. Other countries pirate DVDs and convert them into other formats and put on VCDs and ship to third world countries. Most people in third world countries don’t even get to know the difference. Trust me.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Most people in third world countries don’t even get to know the difference. Trust me.

Ditto (and this is coming from personal, daily experience XD).

 

[lufty]

I think my point here was in response to Lost Wanderer’s statement. If a SW title is available, albeit expensive, so expensive that you feel you can’t afford it, does that merit using a pirate copy or cracked torrent?

If someone needs some specific software title for their business, or education, regardless of the cost, purchasing that product is a “cost of doing business.” That’s how economy works, at least in theory.

As far as file sharing, sure I think some level of file sharing is totally acceptable. However hosting/distributing thousands of copies of registered software titles, and providing cracks/hack keys, and using those, I think is still pretty close to theft. Perhaps it’s a gray area as far as actual Sin goes, but still kinda gray…

 

[lufty]

Poor you.

Mind explaining that?

 

[terminated007]

Mind explaining that?

No I don’t mind. Its because you said regardless of what country you are. Well, that’s not exactly accurate because not all countries take tough stands on piracy. The fear associated with piracy is common in capitalist systems.

Look at a country like France (socialist, I guess). They recently passed a law to crack down on illegal downloads.
The first time they catch you downloading illegally, you get a yellow card (warning…)
The second time you get… (I have forgotten)
and the third time, you get… (I have also forgotten) but I guess a fine and complete Internet black out (clear violation of human rights; says some human rights activitists who are looking into the issue)

So basically, everyone in France has the chance to download illegally at least once.

 

[lufty]

Photoshop is one primary example. Oh and yeah, just because you can ship it overseas does not make it “available”, it makes it imported and in this country, imported=high-priced social status symbol.

Import and export is how International Commerce works. C’mon, you think it’s unfair that if a foreign company doesn’t open up shop in another country, so the prices for that now “locally” produced product are lower?

With that kind of thinking, there would be no International Trade!

One way of thinking, to solve your question of locally produced software, would be to develop a competitive product locally, rather then claim some Robin Hood type mentality in using illegal software. Be honest with yourself, that use of illegal software is sketchy, or in the gray area, morally speaking.